AMD Vega MegaThread! FAQ and Resources

[TMTOWTSAC]

Until real world pricing/availability shakes out it's hard to say where it lands. If it follows the usual early adopter tax (without factoring in miners) it would be a while before the value catches up.

 

[Martell1977]

I don't care that it consumes more power. But when they're selling reference Vega 64 at $599 and you can get a custom 1080 at $509.. who's the winner? From the looks of things there may never be readily available RX Vega at MSRP. That's my complaint. But I guess we'll wait (waiting is not winning IMO) and see.

And sure RX Vega outperforms Nvidia when comparing reference designs. But if the recent past AMD cards give us any hint, Nvidia overclocks better than AMD. Vega is nice, but if you have to get lucky to get your hands on it it doesn't really do most people any good.

It's no different than what nVidia did for their reference cards, they charged extra for the "Founders Edition", which was marketing speak for reference design and a way to gouge fanboys.

We really don't know how Vega OC's as the reference cooler is sad. But yes, historically, nVidia OC's higher, but that only gets you so much.

 

[jankerson]

I don't care that it consumes more power. But when they're selling reference Vega 64 at $599 and you can get a custom 1080 at $509.. who's the winner? From the looks of things there may never be readily available RX Vega at MSRP. That's my complaint. But I guess we'll wait (waiting is not winning IMO) and see.

And sure RX Vega outperforms Nvidia when comparing reference designs. But if the recent past AMD cards give us any hint, Nvidia overclocks better than AMD. Vega is nice, but if you have to get lucky to get your hands on it it doesn't really do most people any good.

Meh... I just don't buy it, those GTX 1080 scores are kinda low, even for the Reference design. I think they are holding back the GTX 1080's they have been testing. I think they are down clocking them from what the scores look like.

I seriously doubt Vega 64 will beat the GTX 1080 even after the aftermarket cards come out.

Vega 64 has one heck of a long way to go to even begin to touch the aftermarket GTX 1080's.... Even out of the box, a long way to go, that's not even talking about overclocking it.

 

[-Fran-]

The aftermarket designs will attack noise and, probably, OC capabilities, but in no way, shape or form they'll be able to attack power consumption.

Vega has growing potential, but it's not much and I'm not anticipating miracles either. Sapphire and Gigabyte did great jobs with Fury when they announced their aftermarket versions of it, but it was still a poor-OC'er and a *hot* card. Vega will follow in those same steps and I'm 100% sure of that.

At least Fury was battling the 980ti and it justified it existence decently. Vega? Not so much. For regular consumers, Vega is a bad recommendation as it stands now. I'll wait for some aftermarket models to see if I change my mind about this last bit. And yes, I'm bundling 56 and 64 in this.

Cheers!

 

[MrN1ce9uy]

It's no different than what nVidia did for their reference cards, they charged extra for the "Founders Edition", which was marketing speak for reference design and a way to gouge fanboys.

Yeah but at least Nvidia tells you about it before hand. AMD said their reference design would be $499 and the Special Edition would be $599. But over at Newegg all but one reference design was $599, same as the Special Edition.

 

[Sakkura]

It's no different than what nVidia did for their reference cards, they charged extra for the "Founders Edition", which was marketing speak for reference design and a way to gouge fanboys.

Yeah but at least Nvidia tells you about it before hand. AMD said their reference design would be $499 and the Special Edition would be $599. But over at Newegg all but one reference design was $599, same as the Special Edition.

AMD doesn't control retail pricing. Nvidia cards have jumped above MSRP plenty of times too.

 

[jankerson]

The aftermarket designs will attack noise and, probably, OC capabilities, but in no way, shape or form they'll be able to attack power consumption.

Vega has growing potential, but it's not much and I'm not anticipating miracles either. Sapphire and Gigabyte did great jobs with Fury when they announced their aftermarket versions of it, but it was still a poor-OC'er and a *hot* card. Vega will follow in those same steps and I'm 100% sure of that.

At least Fury was battling the 980ti and it justified it existence decently. Vega? Not so much. For regular consumers, Vega is a bad recommendation as it stands now. I'll wait for some aftermarket models to see if I change my mind about this last bit. And yes, I'm bundling 56 and 64 in this.

Cheers!

I agree, I don't believe it's all what some thought it would be.

And it's more expensive than a GTX 1080.... With less performance, a lot less than the Partner cards that stomp all over it and kick it around like a red headed step child.

I started laughing when I saw the prices and scores.... Compared to my GTX 1080..... HUGE difference in performance.

Thousands of points difference just in Fire Strike graphics scores.... Not even getting into games and OCing...

Won't make any difference as the Miners will buy all of them anyway. LOL

A miracle is what AMD would need for sure....

 

[-Fran-]

I agree, I don't believe it's all what some thought it would be.

And it's more expensive than a GTX 1080.... With less performance, a lot less than the Partner cards that stomp all over it and kick it around like a red headed step child.

I started laughing when I saw the prices and scores.... Compared to my GTX 1080..... HUGE difference in performance.

Thousands of points difference just in Fire Strike graphics scores.... Not even getting into games and OCing...

Won't make any difference as the Miners will buy all of them anyway. LOL

A miracle is what AMD would need for sure....

I am a strong believer of "not bad products, just bad price points". AMD will have to eat it and give it for chump change or with a huge incentive at this point. I am really thinking that, at least in the regular consumer arena, they won't move much inventory. Miners (maybe) will look at them and perhaps "prosumers", although these last ones have the "semi-pro" version of it.

Cheers!

 

[renz496]

It's no different than what nVidia did for their reference cards, they charged extra for the "Founders Edition", which was marketing speak for reference design and a way to gouge fanboys.

Yeah but at least Nvidia tells you about it before hand. AMD said their reference design would be $499 and the Special Edition would be $599. But over at Newegg all but one reference design was $599, same as the Special Edition.

AMD doesn't control retail pricing. Nvidia cards have jumped above MSRP plenty of times too.

that's normal but it seems it is more complicated this time:

https://videocardz.com/71776/amd-is-trying-to-sell-radeon-rx-vega-64-at-a-higher-price
http://wccftech.com/amds-rx-vega-64s-499-price-tag-was-a-launch-only-introductory-offer/

 

[-Fran-]

It's no different than what nVidia did for their reference cards, they charged extra for the "Founders Edition", which was marketing speak for reference design and a way to gouge fanboys.

Yeah but at least Nvidia tells you about it before hand. AMD said their reference design would be $499 and the Special Edition would be $599. But over at Newegg all but one reference design was $599, same as the Special Edition.

AMD doesn't control retail pricing. Nvidia cards have jumped above MSRP plenty of times too.

that's normal but it seems it is more complicated this time:

https://videocardz.com/71776/amd-is-trying-to-sell-radeon-rx-vega-64-at-a-higher-price
http://wccftech.com/amds-rx-vega-64s-499-price-tag-was-a-launch-only-introductory-offer/

If that is true, then it's a clusterfreud on AMDs part. I wonder if that is UK-only stuff, or maybe EU... On the other hand, OCUK is usually one of the most expensive stores in UK/EU, so I wouldn't put it past there's some mixed message there.

In any case, it would really put AMD's launch in an even worse position. I hope they clear the waters *soon*, or there might be another marketing dept. cleanup at AMD, lol.

Cheers!

EDIT: Changed word.

 

[TMTOWTSAC]

It's no different than what nVidia did for their reference cards, they charged extra for the "Founders Edition", which was marketing speak for reference design and a way to gouge fanboys.

Yeah but at least Nvidia tells you about it before hand. AMD said their reference design would be $499 and the Special Edition would be $599. But over at Newegg all but one reference design was $599, same as the Special Edition.

That's not my post! That's Martell1977's. Looks like the forum update still has some kinks.

As far as pricing, while it's not at all uncommon to raise prices as a result of higher demand...if this is true and they planned it from the beginning people are going to howl.

 

[renz496]

It's no different than what nVidia did for their reference cards, they charged extra for the "Founders Edition", which was marketing speak for reference design and a way to gouge fanboys.

Yeah but at least Nvidia tells you about it before hand. AMD said their reference design would be $499 and the Special Edition would be $599. But over at Newegg all but one reference design was $599, same as the Special Edition.

AMD doesn't control retail pricing. Nvidia cards have jumped above MSRP plenty of times too.

that's normal but it seems it is more complicated this time:

https://videocardz.com/71776/amd-is-trying-to-sell-radeon-rx-vega-64-at-a-higher-price
http://wccftech.com/amds-rx-vega-64s-499-price-tag-was-a-launch-only-introductory-offer/

If that is true, then it's a clusterfreud on AMDs part. I wonder if that is UK-only stuff, or maybe EU... On the other hand, OCUK is usually one of the most expensive stores in UK/EU, so I wouldn't put it past there's some mixed message there.

In any case, it would really put AMD's launch in an even worse position. I hope they clear the waters *soon*, or there might be another marketing dept. cleanup at AMD, lol.

Cheers!

EDIT: Changed word.

i saw this a few days ago at VCZ. i was thinking maybe there is some confusion on certain part of the world before launch and it might as well get sorted by AMD at actual launch. hence i never post the "rumor" here. but it seems more complicated than i originally thought it was?

 

[renz496]

It's no different than what nVidia did for their reference cards, they charged extra for the "Founders Edition", which was marketing speak for reference design and a way to gouge fanboys.

Yeah but at least Nvidia tells you about it before hand. AMD said their reference design would be $499 and the Special Edition would be $599. But over at Newegg all but one reference design was $599, same as the Special Edition.

That's not my post! That's Martell1977's. Looks like the forum update still has some kinks.

As far as pricing, while it's not at all uncommon to raise prices as a result of higher demand...if this is true and they planned it from the beginning people are going to howl.

yes it was but usually that only happen on retail pricing to which AMD have no control off. given time price will be back to normal. but this one AMD are the one "increasing" the base price. some people are accusing AMD to give this "early adopter discount" so they can have more favorable review score during launch.

 

[Rogue Leader]

Similar thing happened at the launch of the RX 480. They had "$199 4GB models" that sold out in seconds, partially because of the 4GB memory shortage, and partially because I think they just wanted to have JUST ENOUGH to say "we have a $200 VR video card."

 

[mitch074]

Call it "frontier Edition" or "Founder's Edition" all you want, but at the end of the day, it's just a reference design and I personally never buy reference design. They are always loud and inefficient, and often boring in design. I really hope Tom's does a follow up review when Sapphire and ASUS release these cards with some decent coolers and we can see what these cards are really capable of.

A recent survey (on Tom's FR) of RX480-based cards actually praised the RX480's reference design, as it evacuates the heat outside the PC while remaining not too noisy. They pointed out the fact that almost all other designs either didn't cool the VRMs properly, were overpriced or were as loud as vacuum cleaners. Things got better with the RX580, but they all ended up in miners' hands...

 

[MrN1ce9uy]

This was 23 mins after Newegg launched them, CST. There was one sold out at $499. The rest were $599, all but one sold out.

 

[goldstone77]

Here is a piece of news that could potentially affect multiple markets. I've been telling you AR/VR was real, and where the future is heading!
NEW YORK , August 15, 2017 /PRNewswire/ --
According to data provided by the International Data Corporation (IDC), sales of Augmented Reality (AR) and Virtual Reality (VR) headsets are expected to grow at a fast pace with a 5-year CAGR of 57.7% from under 10 million units in 2016 to almost 100 million units in 2021. IDC indicates in the research report, "Worldwide Quarterly Augmented and Virtual Reality Headset Tracker," that in terms of dedicated devices, AR continues to be in the background of VR. AR is more difficult to achieve from a technological standpoint. IDC projects that VR headsets will continue to lead in terms of volume, while AR will have a much bigger impact overall on the industry. AR headsets offer a major opportunity in the commercial segment, around vertical markets such as healthcare, manufacturing, field service work, design and more. Vuzix Corporation (NASDAQ: VUZI), Adobe Systems Incorporated (NASDAQ: ADBE), Microsoft Corporation (NASDAQ: MSFT), Facebook Inc (NASDAQ: FB), Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (NASDAQ: AMD)
"It is very clear to us that augmented reality is the larger of the two plays here when looking at AR and VR combined," said Ryan Reith, program vice president with IDC's Worldwide Quarterly Mobile Device Trackers. "We believe that many industrial jobs will fundamentally change because of AR in the next 5-years, and these are much more opportunistic markets for dedicated AR headsets than the consumer market. We expect commercial shipments to account for just over 80% of all AR headsets shipped in the next 5 years."
Vuzix Corporation (NASDAQ: VUZI) announced yesterday that, "Cyber Timez, a Vuzix VIP partner has received a purchase authorization in partnership with the Wounded Warrior Program to deliver Cyber Eyez, a smart glasses based visual aid software to assist American veterans with low vision and blindness, wounded warriors and veterans.  The Wounded Warrior Program, an approved Ability One vendor, is an organization with the mission to assist our nation's wounded warriors, both men and women who have sustained permanent injury as a result of their tour in combat in their recovery efforts, which often includes employment assistance. 
Cyber Eyez leverages advanced AI engines to enable users with low vision and blindness to be more independent in a sighted world. Users can experience their world and get things done efficiently and independently. By using a high definition camera and an optical character recognition engine, Cyber Eyez provides highly accurate text recognition and provides the ability for virtually any text or signage read to the end-user in real time with no internet connection while still maintaining privacy.  Cyber Eyez on the Vuzix M300 Smart Glasses enables many American veterans with low vision and blindness to magnify anything in their environment up to 15 times, read any text in over 100 languages, identify over 16 billion objects, recognize over a thousand colors, scan barcodes to identify products and even detect moods on faces."
"This is a tremendous opportunity for Vuzix to leverage our smart glasses and augmented reality technology to help American veterans, including our nation's veterans and wounded warriors impacted by low vision and blindness improve their overall quality of life," said Paul Travers, President and Chief Executive Officer at Vuzix .
Adobe Systems Incorporated (NASDAQ: ADBE) earlier in June announced that it has acquired all SkyBox technology from Mettle, a global developer of 360-degree and virtual reality software. The acquisition comes at a time when increasing numbers of creators, global brands, media and entertainment companies are investing in 360/VR and are looking for innovative solutions in this immersive medium. "We believe making virtual-reality content should be as easy as possible for creators. The acquisition of Mettle SkyBox technology allows us to deliver a more highly integrated VR editing and effects experience to the film and video community," said Steven Warner , vice president of digital video and audio at Adobe. "Editing in 360/VR requires specialized technology, and as such, this is a critical area of investment for Adobe, and we're thrilled Chris Bobotis has joined us to help lead the charge forward."
Microsoft Corporation (NASDAQ: MSFT) is the leading platform and productivity company for the mobile-first, cloud-first world and its mission is to empower every person and every organization on the planet to achieve more.  Microsoft HoloLens transforms how you work with 3D data by pioneering advances in 3D design, productivity, and collaboration.  The HoloLens is an augmented reality headset.  On July 10th, Microsoft announced the expansion of its Mixed Reality Partner Program.  In an official Microsoft blog, Jeff Hansen said, "we are excited to announce that due to growing demand from partners and customers, we have created the Mixed Reality Partner Program, which expands the agency readiness program to welcome systems integrators and digital agencies around the world. All existing HoloLens Agency Readiness Partners will be grandfathered into the Mixed Reality Partner Program."
Facebook Inc (NASDAQ: FB) announced on March 8th, that they're making 360 photos and videos even more immersive and easier to discover with the launch of the Facebook 360 app for Samsung Gear VR, powered by Oculus. The app introduces an innovative way to explore Facebook 360 photos and videos.  With over 25 million 360 photos and over 1 million 360 videos posted on Facebook to date, there's plenty of great content to discover in Facebook 360. The app is an all in one shop for catching up on what you may have missed from your friends and others you follow, diving into the 360 photos and videos you've saved.
Advanced Micro Devices, Inc. (NASDAQ: AMD) revealed in April that it has acquired intellectual property (IP) and key engineering talent from Nitero, a pioneer in millimeter wave solutions capable of enabling future generations of wireless Virtual Reality (VR) and Augmented Reality (AR) headsets. The acquisition provides AMD with a broader portfolio of IP capable of enabling VR headsets and solution providers with key technology required to create more immersive computing experiences. "Unwieldly headset cables remain a significant barrier to drive widespread adoption of VR," said Mark Papermaster , chief technology officer and senior vice president of AMD. "Our newly acquired wireless VR technology is focused on solving this challenge, and is another example of AMD making long-term technology investments to develop high-performance computing and graphics technologies that can create more immersive computing experiences."

 

[volcom4c]

So how old does this theme have to get?.... of selfish data miners grabbing up all of the cards to the point literally NO ONE can buy a card to use it what it was designed for. Anyone can do whatever you want once you get it, no my place to tell you how to waste your money...But holy S%#!. NOTHING available other than the bundles that are trying to offset all the greed. Hell, you still can't even buy a 580 near reasonable pricing. How is this good for business and why is there not some way to stop this ridiculous human behavior? Just so over it and annoyed. I just want to use my Freesync monitor FFS.

 

[unikinqay]

So how old does this theme have to get?.... of selfish data miners grabbing up all of the cards to the point literally NO ONE can buy a card to use it what it was designed for. Anyone can do whatever you want once you get it, no my place to tell you how to waste your money...But holy S%#!. NOTHING available other than the bundles that are trying to offset all the greed. Hell, you still can't even buy a 580 near reasonable pricing. How is this good for business and why is there not some way to stop this ridiculous human behavior? Just so over it and annoyed. I just want to use my Freesync monitor FFS.

I agree. It's totally crazy, even entry level GPUs like gtx 1050ti are pricier because of this mining craze. Miners are buying cards directly from Chinese factories, so retailers can't get them and if they do, prices are elevated for them too. Adding GDDR shortage and we might not see price normalization anytime soon :-( I'll probably just buy cheap gtx 1050 and come back when mining craze stops.

 

[MrN1ce9uy]

So how old does this theme have to get?.... of selfish data miners grabbing up all of the cards to the point literally NO ONE can buy a card to use it what it was designed for. Anyone can do whatever you want once you get it, no my place to tell you how to waste your money...But holy S%#!. NOTHING available other than the bundles that are trying to offset all the greed. Hell, you still can't even buy a 580 near reasonable pricing. How is this good for business and why is there not some way to stop this ridiculous human behavior? Just so over it and annoyed. I just want to use my Freesync monitor FFS.

I too have a FreeSync monitor that I cannot use w/ FreeSync

 

[volcom4c]

I mean am I crazy for being completely and utterly like, W..T..F..? When all the hype, and press, and even great benchmarks(for Radeon) getting everyone excited...You have a big unveiling, and RELEASE..but wait, you can't actually just buy a video card on release day, or a week or a month after? How long does it have to go before someone who can actually do something says, "um, guys..do we hate money? We released a card that our main fan base(gamers) can't purchase."...So if the demand is this high. MAKE MORE. Hire another assembly factory. The demand is there..supply it PLEASE.

 

[Sakkura]

I mean am I crazy for being completely and utterly like, W..T..F..? When all the hype, and press, and even great benchmarks(for Radeon) getting everyone excited...You have a big unveiling, and RELEASE..but wait, you can't actually just buy a video card on release day, or a week or a month after? How long does it have to go before someone who can actually do something says, "um, guys..do we hate money? We released a card that our main fan base(gamers) can't purchase."...So if the demand is this high. MAKE MORE. Hire another assembly factory. The demand is there..supply it PLEASE.

It could be bought on release day. Just got sold out.

And before you say AMD should magically make more fabs available for GPUs and HBM2, they can't. They don't own any fabs (and couldn't afford to build ones, which would take years anyways, and likely violate their contracts with GloFo).

 

[cdrkf]

I mean am I crazy for being completely and utterly like, W..T..F..? When all the hype, and press, and even great benchmarks(for Radeon) getting everyone excited...You have a big unveiling, and RELEASE..but wait, you can't actually just buy a video card on release day, or a week or a month after? How long does it have to go before someone who can actually do something says, "um, guys..do we hate money? We released a card that our main fan base(gamers) can't purchase."...So if the demand is this high. MAKE MORE. Hire another assembly factory. The demand is there..supply it PLEASE.

It could be bought on release day. Just got sold out.

And before you say AMD should magically make more fabs available for GPUs and HBM2, they can't. They don't own any fabs (and couldn't afford to build ones, which would take years anyways, and likely violate their contracts with GloFo).

Of course we shouldn't forget AMD *did have fabs* back in the day- which were spun off into Global Foundries because they were costing them too much money. The majority of Intel's R&D spend is actually on their fabs- that is why AMD have been able to compete quite well with Ryzen despite a minuscule R&D budget in comparison.

 

[JamesSneed]

I mean am I crazy for being completely and utterly like, W..T..F..? When all the hype, and press, and even great benchmarks(for Radeon) getting everyone excited...You have a big unveiling, and RELEASE..but wait, you can't actually just buy a video card on release day, or a week or a month after? How long does it have to go before someone who can actually do something says, "um, guys..do we hate money? We released a card that our main fan base(gamers) can't purchase."...So if the demand is this high. MAKE MORE. Hire another assembly factory. The demand is there..supply it PLEASE.

It could be bought on release day. Just got sold out.

And before you say AMD should magically make more fabs available for GPUs and HBM2, they can't. They don't own any fabs (and couldn't afford to build ones, which would take years anyways, and likely violate their contracts with GloFo).

Of course we shouldn't forget AMD *did have fabs* back in the day- which were spun off into Global Foundries because they were costing them too much money. The majority of Intel's R&D spend is actually on their fabs- that is why AMD have been able to compete quite well with Ryzen despite a minuscule R&D budget in comparison.

That really isn't why the are able to compete. Intel has simply stagnated due to a lack of competition which has made them billions. They should have pulled there 10nm IceLake into 2017 early 2018 but no they sat on the design to milk there 14nm process which has been very profitable for them.

 

[cdrkf]

I mean am I crazy for being completely and utterly like, W..T..F..? When all the hype, and press, and even great benchmarks(for Radeon) getting everyone excited...You have a big unveiling, and RELEASE..but wait, you can't actually just buy a video card on release day, or a week or a month after? How long does it have to go before someone who can actually do something says, "um, guys..do we hate money? We released a card that our main fan base(gamers) can't purchase."...So if the demand is this high. MAKE MORE. Hire another assembly factory. The demand is there..supply it PLEASE.

It could be bought on release day. Just got sold out.

And before you say AMD should magically make more fabs available for GPUs and HBM2, they can't. They don't own any fabs (and couldn't afford to build ones, which would take years anyways, and likely violate their contracts with GloFo).

Of course we shouldn't forget AMD *did have fabs* back in the day- which were spun off into Global Foundries because they were costing them too much money. The majority of Intel's R&D spend is actually on their fabs- that is why AMD have been able to compete quite well with Ryzen despite a minuscule R&D budget in comparison.

That really isn't why the are able to compete. Intel has simply stagnated due to a lack of competition which has made them billions. They should have pulled there 10nm IceLake into 2017 early 2018 but no they sat on the design to milk there 14nm process which has been very profitable for them.

I don't think that is true- Intel have been struggling with 10nm (as have the whole industry). If you think Intel are sitting on revolutionary technology that will magically propel them into the lead, just look at their woeful attempts to create a competitive phone processor. They tried several times and despite having the undisputed best silicone fabrication tech in the industry they weren't able to pull ahead.

On a side note- Intels attempted push into the Phone / Tablet space is also one of the reasons they've eased back on the PC side. There was a general consensus a few years back that 'the PC is dead, long live tablets' and all the manufacturers went along with it (AMD included for a while). It's only now they are realizing that the change wasn't as black and white as that. True- a lot of home buyers who only want to look at pictures / email / facebook have moved from laptops to smaller, cheaper and more portable tablets. That said the PC still very much has a place- as the platform you need if you want to create content rather than just consume it. It's the same deal with the server space- ARM haven't just swept in and taken over like many predicted, as it's proving just as hard for ARM to scale up to high performance designs as it was for Intel to scale down.

The fact of the matter with AMD is that each 'base' architecture lasts about 5 years (same for Intel)- and AMD screwed up with Bulldozer so everything that's happened since was pretty much guaranteed to happen. AMD then managed *not* to screw up with Zen. I think the only area where Intel has been screwing customers is by not increasing core counts sooner- they could have made hex core standard for i7 a couple of generations ago if they'd wanted. I don't think the per core performance would be much different though even if Dozer' had been more competitive.