Animal Planet's "Dragons"

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Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:1ZednSADSe9sNtnfRVn-pQ@comcast.com...

> But when one says "think of a predator", the first
> thing to pop into people's head is generally NOT a filter feeder. Lions,
> tigers, and bears, oh my!

"The first thing to pop into people's head" is not what defines a word,
dumbass. Otherwise, no one other than you in this forum could be defined as
a dumbass, for example.

> As noted, there are many creatures on the planet that are technically
> predatory, but they are low enough on the food chain that people don't
> have
> them immediately spring to mind when one says "predator".

Irrelevant, as usual.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in message
news:slrnd48h6g.m0e.bradd+news@szonye.com...
> David Alex Lamb <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote:
> > Marc L. <master.cougar@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>"Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net> wrote in
> >>news:WKmdnU3ryKSIjd7fRVn-rQ@comcast.com:
> >>
> >>> Well, actually, I'm rather enjoying the definition game, now that
> >>> we're playing it.
> >>
> >> And then you wonder why people think you know nothing. I guess
> >>you also like losing, because you seem to excel at it.
> >
> > I've lost count. How many times did you post the same comment?
>
> Marc's just excited that he found somebody dumber than he is.

*chuckle*
I know that was at my expense, but that was pretty funny. 😉

--
Jeff Goslin - MCSD - www.goslin.info
It's not a god complex when you're always right
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jeff Goslin <autockr@comcast.net> wrote:
> Yes, I've watched cats hunt, the stalking bit is generally moving into
> position to wait briefly for their prey to be-bop by. It *IS* active
> predation, because while they may get cautious and still at the very
> end, they still put themselves in position to make that pounce.

You are inventing distinctions without difference. You are stupid.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jeff Goslin wrote:
> Ok, tuff guy, you tell me, what phrasing/word(s) would you have used to get
> across the notion that I am trying to convey?

Your descriptions are too inconsistent to tell, largely because you seem
confused about how animals actually behave.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"John Phillips" <jsphillips1@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:X451e.457866$w62.2558@bgtnsc05-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
> "Jeff Goslin" wrote

>> No, I just think we're talking from different worlds.
>
> Yes, Earth and Bizzaro Jeff world.

Do the Humpty Hump.

--
^v^v^Malachias Invictus^v^v^

It matters not how strait the gate,
How charged with punishment the scroll,
I am the Master of my fate:
I am the Captain of my soul.

from _Invictus_, by William Ernest Henley
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 05:42:18 GMT, "John Phillips"
<jsphillips1@worldnet.att.net> scribed into the ether:

>
>"Jeff Goslin" wrote
>> "Malachias Invictus" wrote
>> > "Jeff Goslin" wrote
>> > > "Matt Frisch" wrote
>> > >> So whale sharks (to say nothing of actual whales) are not predators
>> then?
>> > >
>> > > But of *COURSE* they are predators. They hunt the ever elusive krill,
>> >
>> > Yes, dumbass, filter feeders *are* considered predators.
>>
>> In the same way that COWS are predators. NEXT!!!
>
>Cows don't live off the bugs they may accidentally eat, filter feeders DO
>live off what they filter.
>See the difference?

To say nothing of the fact that whales will migrate THOUSANDS of miles to
locate their food in different seasons. But according to Jeff, that's not
predatory behavior.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 03:53:49 -0500, "Jeff Goslin"
<autockr@comcast.net> carved upon a tablet of ether:

> Is a BEAR a predator? They eat a vast assortment of stuff, and do not
> require the consumption of other organisms to survive. They can survive
> quite nicely on vegetation indefinitely, but they do eat meat when they can.
> Classify the bear as either a predator or non-predator, if you please...

Actually, Polar Bears are exclusive carnivores (opr nearly so). As for
your brown or black bear they are opportunistic carnivores, as opposed
to cats dolphins, and so on, which are obligate carnivores. Note that
when they go after game that isn't dead yet they are acting as a
predator (ie they are preying on something). It's not difficult.


--
Rupert Boleyn <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
"Just because the truth will set you free doesn't mean the truth itself
should be free."
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 03:53:49 -0500, "Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net>
scribed into the ether:

>"Malachias Invictus" <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:QcOdnWilFeKrXN7fRVn-gQ@comcast.com...
>> No, not even remotely. Filter feeders capture and consume other organisms
>> to sustain life (which is a more accurate definition of predation). Cows
>> sometimes accidentally eat bugs with their food.
>
>Is a BEAR a predator?

Yes. Moron.

> They eat a vast assortment of stuff, and do not
>require the consumption of other organisms to survive. They can survive
>quite nicely on vegetation indefinitely, but they do eat meat when they can.
>Classify the bear as either a predator or non-predator, if you please...

That a bear may not be hunting *RIGHT NOW* doesn't have anything to do with
what they are capable of and perfectly willing to do whenever the
opportunity arises. Moron.

>I assume you'd choose predator, and further refine your definition to allow
>for the non-exclusivity of diet.

Predator != Carnivore. Moron.

0/3 in a single post. Quite the accomplishment.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 20:24:57 -0500, "Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net>
scribed into the ether:

>"No 33 Secretary" <taustin+usenet@hyperbooks.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns9623A8340B4D7taustinhyperbookscom@216.168.3.50...
>> Helium is also very rare, while hydrogen is a major component of water,
>and
>> *all* life needs to be near water. Rather than electrolysis, however, I'd
>> expect some sort of chemical process.
>
>Not so much, actually, water is not a necessary component for even
>terrestrial life any longer. They've found life thriving in environments
>where oxygen and water are not present.

Oxygen yes, anaerobic bacteria are fairly common.

But no water? Post proof or retract. And please note that organisms which
go into hibernation and become inert during times of no water do not count.
I want functional life.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 01:05:12 +0000 (UTC), tsang@soda.csua.berkeley.edu
(Donald Tsang) scribed into the ether:

>Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>>Hydrogen might be possible for some organism to figure out, but helium
>>would be unlikely. Most chemicals that life makes use of are broken down
>>from something else...while something that uses electrolysis to break down
>>hydrogen from water is unlikely, it isn't out of the question. Helium being
>>chemically inert would be a significant problem though.
>
>How about a fusion reaction? All you need is some way to filter
>heavy water efficiently, some electrolysis to separate the deuterium
>and tritium from the oxygen, and a suitable reaction chamber...
>with the right "catalyst", this could be done at much lower temperature
>and pressure than the typical H-Bomb or Star (anyone remember Pons
>and Fleischmann?)
>
>With the oxygen, one could produce a flame from almost any fuel.
>
>Next time the PCs ask why the dragon is swimming through the ocean
>with its mouth open, you can just smile...

You'd need to change the breathe-every-1d4-rounds to
breath-every-1d4-months...tritium and deuterium are not exactly common.
Interesting idea though. The digestive system of a dragon that did that
would be quite a sight to see.

>>For real animals that retain hydrogen and helium... nah. Neither of those
>>gasses are held in by earth's gravity, so there wouldn't be the chance for
>>something to evolve a mechanism to retain them.
>
>Um, what?

Escape velocity for the planet earth is lower than easily achievable speeds
of hydrogen and helium. Any gas *can* escape given enough heat, but H and
He can do it with incredible ease. If Lithium and Beryllium existed as
gasses in temperatures you find outside of a volcano, they'd probably be
able to escape too. The next lightest gas is O2, which is ~16 times heavier
than a Helium molecule, and doesn't reach the same speeds.
 
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On Thu, 24 Mar 2005 23:57:13 -0500, "Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net>
scribed into the ether:

>"David Alex Lamb" <dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca> wrote in message
>news:d1vnk1$ff7$1@knot.queensu.ca...
>> Fish-eating birds like herons aren't generally considered raptors. I
>don't
>> know the name of the class they're part of. This example occurred earlier
>in
>> the thread; did you miss it?
>
>Nope, but it's not terribly "predatory" to snag a fish who isn't even aware
>of your prescence.

And the stupidity just keeps on coming...

So, now stealth is an invalid means of being a predator. That disqualifies,
among other animals...Leopards, who exclusively attack from ambush.
 
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"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in
news:slrnd48h2m.m0e.bradd+news@szonye.com:

> Jeff Goslin wrote:
>> Is a BEAR a predator?
>
> Damn. You're even stupider than I thought you were.

Amazing, aint't it?

--
Marc
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Bradd W. Szonye" <bradd+news@szonye.com> wrote in
news:slrnd48h6g.m0e.bradd+news@szonye.com:

> Marc's just excited that he found somebody dumber than he is.
>

Naw, Jeff's not dumb, he talks all time.

--
Marc
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

dalamb@qucis.queensu.ca (David Alex Lamb) wrote in
news:d21g95$qrq$1@knot.queensu.ca:

> Maynbe it's like the Marx brothers. Use a joke one, it's funny.
> Use it three times, it's not funny. Use it dozens of time, it's
> funny again.

I guess, I can't help it though. Jeff fed me the line, that time
he complained that no one actually reads what he posts and just
assume that he doesn't know what he talks about. But, I guess, I
milked that line enough.

--
Marc
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jeff Goslin <autockr@comcast.net> wrote:
> I try to use definitions that as many standard people won't have a
> problem with as possible ....

Such as your definitions of "predator" that try to rule out lying in
wait and opportunistic attacks? Those are especially bizarre, because
that's exactly the kind of human behavior that we call "predatory."
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jeff Goslin <autockr@comcast.net> wrote:
> No, but a cat catching a fish would be akin to aliens nabbing humans with a
> transport beam from outer space, at least from the fish's perspective.

Perhaps you understand fish psychology better than human psychology.

> "what the... whut happened?" Yes, it's "predatory" to do such things, but
> it's hardly sporting. 😉

If it's predatory, then why are you trying to say they're not predators?
As usual, you contradict yourself.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Jeff Goslin <autockr@comcast.net> wrote:
> Not in the slightest. But when one says "think of a predator", the first
> thing to pop into people's head is generally NOT a filter feeder. Lions,
> tigers, and bears, oh my!

Defining words according to the first examples that pop into random
people's minds? That's sad, even for you, Humpty.
--
Bradd W. Szonye
http://www.szonye.com/bradd
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <_dudnRloXLEm9dnfRVn-ig@comcast.com>,
Jeff Goslin <autockr@comcast.net> wrote:
>"John Phillips" <jsphillips1@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
>news:eRV0e.7305$cg1.2145@bgtnsc04-news.ops.worldnet.att.net...
>> You do know that different kinds of bears eat different amounts of meat?
>> Polar Bears for example eat nothing but.
>
>Only because their habitat is one where plants don't generally grow too
>well. You know ice floes and whatnot, they're not place you'd find like
>berries n stuff. 😉

I have read that polar bears evolved from grizzlies only about 20,000 years
ago. I imagine that if you moved one south it could digest some of the same
things grizzlies eat.
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

In article <soKdnaGDY9OGEtnfRVn-1A@comcast.com>,
Malachias Invictus <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Hell, the only one I can think of is "human with a .50 caliber rifle," and
>that does not really qualify because of the tool use.

How about plains Indians running buffalo off a cliff?
--
"Yo' ideas need to be thinked befo' they are say'd" - Ian Lamb, age 3.5
http://www.cs.queensu.ca/~dalamb/ qucis->cs to reply (it's a long story...)
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:
>You'd need to change the breathe-every-1d4-rounds to
>breath-every-1d4-months...tritium and deuterium are not exactly common.
>Interesting idea though. The digestive system of a dragon that did that
>would be quite a sight to see.

I think this would be simpler, now that I've thought about it:
(a) cold fusion for energy. combine with oxygen (from electrolysis)
and an ultra-efficient exhaust system to provide enough energy
to actually fly with the size of wings it has. Sort of a giant
hummingbird...
(b) oxygen with something-flammable-in-pure-oxygen for fire breath.

You probably still need some sort of heat sink, though.


>>>For real animals that retain hydrogen and helium... nah. Neither of those
>>>gasses are held in by earth's gravity, so there wouldn't be the chance for
>>>something to evolve a mechanism to retain them.
>>
>>Um, what?
>
>Escape velocity for the planet earth is lower than easily achievable speeds
>of hydrogen and helium. Any gas *can* escape given enough heat, but H and
>He can do it with incredible ease. If Lithium and Beryllium existed as
>gasses in temperatures you find outside of a volcano, they'd probably be
>able to escape too. The next lightest gas is O2, which is ~16 times heavier
>than a Helium molecule, and doesn't reach the same speeds.

Lightest except for that gas that's almost 70% of the Earth's atmosphere...

Helium, I agree, is way too weird. But two-thirds of the Earth's
surface is covered by a compound of hydrogen and oxygen (with a
tiny bit of sodium and chlorine), after all. Certainly one could
imagine that... oh, I dunno, symbiotes that lived close to electric
eels might evolve to retain hydrogen?

Donald
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 06:25:30 -0500, "Jeff Goslin"
<autockr@comcast.net> gibbered into the void:

>"Malachias Invictus" <capt_malachias@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:Bd6dnVOzrLDrRd7fRVn-pw@comcast.com...
>> > Is a BEAR a predator?
>>
>> Yes.
>>
>> > They eat a vast assortment of stuff, and do not
>> > require the consumption of other organisms to survive.
>>
>> Irrelevant. Do they capture and consume other organisms to sustain life?
>> Yes.
>
>Well, it's not required in any way. Are they therefore sustaining their
>lives by predation? Nope. They do not require the sustenance provided by
>other organisms in order to sustain life. They're just getting a tasty
>morsel every once in a while.
>
>> > They can survive quite nicely on vegetation indefinitely,
>>
>> So? That is completely irrelevant. Omnivores can certainly be predators.
>
>Not if they don't require the sustenance so gained from predation. Not
>according to the definition you have given.
>
>> > I assume you'd choose predator, and further refine your definition to
>> > allow
>> > for the non-exclusivity of diet.
>>
>> That is not necessary. A creature either meets the test, or not.
>
>Then anything that has ever ingested another organism, regardless of whether
>it sustains their life or not, is a predator. Hello predatory cows.

Think about motivation. A cow happens upon an untouched field.
"OOOH," it thinks, "GRASS!!!" Darn. It ate a bug while enjoying its
normal meal.

Predator? No. Come on.

A bear happens upon a stream on the way to getting to a nearby orchard
to go bother a beehive. "OOOH," it thinks, "SALMON!!!" It chooses to
capture and consume the fish in lieu of the honey. Or perhaps as a
dietary supplement, but you can see the difference.

Or maybe you can't.

The bear is a PREDATOR. It consciously (instinctively?) goes after
another animal. It needn't, but sometimes it does.

I defy you to classify a bear confronting you in the woods as a
non-predator because sometimes it DOESN'T eat live meat. Perhaps you
can type a message to Usenet in its stomach.

Or maybe you can't.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Jeff Goslin" wrote
> "John Phillips" wrote
>
> > You do know that different kinds of bears eat different amounts of meat?
> > Polar Bears for example eat nothing but.
>
> Only because their habitat is one where plants don't generally grow too
> well. You know ice floes and whatnot, they're not place you'd find like
> berries n stuff. 😉

But according to you they aren't predators.

John
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

"Jeff Goslin" wrote
> "Rupert Boleyn" wrote
> > > They wait for fish to come close. That's passive predation. They
stalk
> > > land animals. That's active predation. There's a big difference.
> >
> > Never watched cats hunt, have you? Much of the time they just lie
> > still somehwere where they know the prey will come into pouncing
> > distance.
>
> Yes, I've watched cats hunt, the stalking bit is generally moving into
> position to wait briefly for their prey to be-bop by. It *IS* active
> predation, because while they may get cautious and still at the very end,
> they still put themselves in position to make that pounce.

This is different from most creature that prey on fish how?


john
 
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On Sat, 26 Mar 2005 02:22:16 +0000 (UTC), tsang@soda.csua.berkeley.edu
(Donald Tsang) scribed into the ether:

>Matt Frisch <matuse73@yahoo.spam.me.not.com> wrote:

>>>Um, what?
>>
>>Escape velocity for the planet earth is lower than easily achievable speeds
>>of hydrogen and helium. Any gas *can* escape given enough heat, but H and
>>He can do it with incredible ease. If Lithium and Beryllium existed as
>>gasses in temperatures you find outside of a volcano, they'd probably be
>>able to escape too. The next lightest gas is O2, which is ~16 times heavier
>>than a Helium molecule, and doesn't reach the same speeds.
>
>Lightest except for that gas that's almost 70% of the Earth's atmosphere...

Whoops, my bad. I had it in my head that it was N3 (I was thinking NO3,
which isn't even an intact molecule), not N2...still, helium is quite a bit
lighter than 28 AU.

>Helium, I agree, is way too weird. But two-thirds of the Earth's
>surface is covered by a compound of hydrogen and oxygen (with a
>tiny bit of sodium and chlorine), after all. Certainly one could
>imagine that... oh, I dunno, symbiotes that lived close to electric
>eels might evolve to retain hydrogen?

You'd think they'd have already done so. In addition to availability, there
also has to be some kind of need. An ocean-going bacterium is not very
highly motivated to retain something which would give it so much buoyancy
that it not only leaves the water, but possibly the air as well.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.frp.dnd (More info?)

On Fri, 25 Mar 2005 19:06:11 -0500, "Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net>
scribed into the ether:

>"Marc L." <master.cougar@gmail.com> wrote in message
>news:Xns96246B312CE47mastercougarhotmailc@207.35.177.135...
>> "Jeff Goslin" <autockr@comcast.net> wrote in
>> news:Nd6dnXWBxsyIad7fRVn-qw@comcast.com:
>>
>> > if you can't understand what I'm saying, it's NOT because
>> > I'm a poor communicator, but rather, and quite frankly it's highly
>> > likely, it's that you're just plain too stupid to comprehend
>> > normal conversation.
>> >
>>
>> And then you wonder why people think you know nothing.
>> Jeffy boy, you admit to changing the definition of the words you use,
>> and then claim that others have trouble communicating?
>
>From memory, define a list of 10 random words with total agreement on the
>first pass by 10 random people around you. It can't be done.

Ok, I define this list as: 10 random words that 10 random people will have
total agreement on the definitions of.

There, I did it. Was easy, too.
 
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