[Announce] Infernal Plague: The Return of Nergal

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John Flournoy wrote:
> Robert Goudie wrote:
> When the Nergal deck is ousted, does every player get 1VP and 6 pool,
> since Nergal is the 'prey of every other player'?
>
> -John Flournoy

Stupid delays in googlepostings. I already saw the answer to this.

-John

 

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Jozxyqk wrote:
> Will the texts of the 3 promo cards and the contents of the Nergal deck
> be publicly revealed before the Storyline period begins, so people can
> make an informed decision about whether or not they want to gun for
> Nergal?


The 3 promo cards:

The first promo card is a legal version of Nergal. You aren't allowed
to include this promo card in your storyline deck.

The other 2 promo cards may be added to your storyline deck but since
it's only 1 or 2 cards in your crypt, it shouldn't affect your decision
to "gun for Nergal".

There's no intention to release the texts in advance but it won't hurt
anything if people do release them.

As well, there's no intention to release the contents of the Nergal
deck before the events. Frankly, I think that would reduce the impact
of seeing Nergal hit the table and do his thing. I think people will
enjoy the event more if they don't see everything in advance.

However, I don't doubt there will again be some people who post the
contents on their websites for those who are really really interested
in doing lots of planning.

-Robert

Robert Goudie
V:EKN Storyline Director
vtesstory@white-wolf.com

 

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John Flournoy <carneggy@gmail.com> wrote:

> If you are correct, and players will not want to volunteer to play the
> Nergal deck, then this is nothing more than "The top 4 players make a
> final with their clan. The 5th place person gets to play the Nergal
> deck."

> However, some players will undoubtedly be playing the event primarily
> to have fun (not necessarily to advance a specific clan), and playing
> the Nergal deck sounds like an awful lot of fun to me.

But my point still stands:
Those who have no interest in playing the Nergal deck, and want to
advance their clan, will get no credit for their clan making the finals,
if they are forced to play Nergal.
Granted, most players who don't want Nergal will not be forced to play
Nergal. It's only the case if nobody in the final round wants to play
it and you're in 5th place.

On the flip side, those who are definitely interested in playing the
Nergal deck will need to play to get to top seed (in case someone else
is interested in playing Nergal). Therefore they are more likely to
play "cheesy" decks (cheesequake or arika-vote aren't difficult to do
with 75%-clan restrictions) which, in my opinion, cheapen the whole fun
of a Storyline.
(Then again, someone may argue "Why aren't you trying to get top seed
anyway? This is a tournament and you should always play to maximize
your position!" My response to that is that I'd rather see a variety of
clans, even more 'challenging' ones.)

All I'm asking for is that whoever ends up playing Nergal also gets
*some* sort of recognition for the clan they came in with. Even if
it's just a tip of the hat in the epilogue, it's only fair to
acknowledge the deck that the player actually built, and made it to the
finals with.

There is a big difference between "Malk Stealth Bleed, 3 GW, 15 VPs"
before playing Nergal, and "Samedi Rush, 0 GW, 3 VPs, 5th place" before
playing Nergal.
It is unfair to force the person who wants to get credit for his clan,
to get absolutely no credit for his clan. Plus, it is a nice spice for
the story to find out what clan was most popular in getting *to* Nergal
anyway.

 

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John Flournoy <carneggy@gmail.com> wrote:

> You keep saying 'get no credit for their clan making the finals'.
> Nobody gets credit in a storyline for -making- the final, they get
> credit for -winning- the finals. There's no reward for 'most 3rd place
> finishes'.

In most tournaments, you make the finals with a deck you brought/built
yourself. When you are in the finals, you usually play that deck. If
you win the tournament, you get to say that you won with that deck. I
just want the players who play Nergal and also win the tournament to get
credit for the deck that they brought with them.

> > (Then again, someone may argue "Why aren't you trying to get top seed
> > anyway? This is a tournament and you should always play to maximize
> > your position!" My response to that is that I'd rather see a variety of
> > clans, even more 'challenging' ones.)

> So would I. So would many people. Not everyone plays for fun as often
> as you and I do. (greedy booster-craving bastards!)

I'm not saying to disallow the "Top Tier decks". I'm saying to
encourage the playing of more creative decks.
If you play Nergal (by choice or by force) and your preliminary-round deck
is "forgotten", where is the incentive to play something interesting?

> > All I'm asking for is that whoever ends up playing Nergal also gets
> > *some* sort of recognition for the clan they came in with. Even if
> > it's just a tip of the hat in the epilogue, it's only fair to
> > acknowledge the deck that the player actually built, and made it to the
> > finals with.

> We should certainly ask Robert to track that, and see what the numbers
> look like at the end of things.

Yes. That is all I want.

> If you want to get credit for your clan, you have to enter the finals
> in the top 4, and you have to WIN without playing Nergal. You might
> also be able to do so in 5th place if you win, but that's not
> guaranteed.

I am including the player who *chooses* to play Nergal, but also wants
it to be known that he made it into the finals with a Samedi deck, when
he wins the tournament.

That's the point you're missing.

-Josh
-practicing the being-hated-upon

 

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<d21_aod@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:1125628755.855701.315980@g14g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>> Sela let loose a garbled scream before her pitch-black body burst into
>> a lightless flame which whirled around and displaced the moon's
>> remaining light. Barbaro and Helena observed their sacrifice as the
>> remnants of Sela formed a black pool upon the altar. The black sludge
>> quickly filled the shallow reservoirs to capacity and the excess moved
>> throughout the canals across the entire plateau.
>
> I assume that this means Sela is dead?

Another victim forced to watch Gary lip-sync the "Numa Numa Dance"!!!


....pointless....(sigh)

 

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Will the texts of the 3 promo cards and the contents of the Nergal deck
be publicly revealed before the Storyline period begins, so people can
make an informed decision about whether or not they want to gun for
Nergal?

 

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> Agree with the 'spice'. I don't agree that it's 'unfair'.
>

It forces players to make a decision: Do I play for my Clan, or do I play
for Nergal? No other Storyline has forced you to play for a goal other
than your Clan. Sure, you can choose other goals, but no Storyline has set
up such mutually exclusive goals. Even Infernal Plague Round 1, where you
could choose Infernal or Non-Infernal, no matter what decisions you made,
you could still be promoting your Clan, which is the entire point of the
75% rule.

 

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Robert Goudie wrote:
> Jozxyqk wrote:

> However, I don't doubt there will again be some people who post the
> contents on their websites for those who are really really interested
> in doing lots of planning.

Oh oh! Like me! (recalls Prophecies of Gehenna flame war lovingly...
*sigh*)

~Screaming Vermillian

 

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Have there been any information about stock number and prices?

I assume there might be a little bit more expesive than the regualr
tournament kits.

Andreas

Robert Goudie schrieb:
> Jozxyqk wrote:
>
>>Another question:
>>If this is going until December 18, and the release date for LoB ends up
>>being November 18 or earlier, will it be legal to play Legacies of Blood
>>cards in this storyline?
>
>
> When LoB cards become legal for regular tournament play, they may then
> be played in the storyline event.
>
>
>>If there are entirely new Ebony Kingdom clans, as rumored, will those
>>new clans have a shot at winning the Storylines if enough princes waited
>>until the last minute to run their tournaments?
>
>
> Sounds similarly suspicious to that drive to make the Ravnos control
> Baltimore. Go right ahead.
>
>
>>My suspicion is that this will end on December 18 specifically because
>>it will be less than 30 days after the release date of Legacies, but I'm
>>just wondering...
>
>
> Just a coincidence.
>
> -Robert
>
> Robert Goudie
> V:EKN Storyline Director
> vtesstory@white-wolf.com
>


--
Andreas Nusser

Walch & Nusser GbR
Visit premier VTES shop in Europe
at http://www.vtes.de

Now taking preorders for LoB!

 

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Derek Ray wrote:
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>
> Robert Goudie wrote:
> > Jozxyqk wrote:
> >
> >>Will the texts of the 3 promo cards and the contents of the Nergal deck
> >>be publicly revealed before the Storyline period begins, so people can
> >>make an informed decision about whether or not they want to gun for
> >>Nergal?
>
> (snip)
>
> > As well, there's no intention to release the contents of the Nergal
> > deck before the events. Frankly, I think that would reduce the impact
> > of seeing Nergal hit the table and do his thing. I think people will
> > enjoy the event more if they don't see everything in advance.
>
> I agree. People would enjoy the event more if it was a surprise.
>
> > However, I don't doubt there will again be some people who post the
> > contents on their websites for those who are really really interested
> > in doing lots of planning.
>
> Given that you don't doubt it and that we've already seen in the past
> that people will be asshats and spoil things whenever possible, why not
> put everyone on an equal footing and release the information, much like
> was done with Barbaro Lucchese? Specifically, Nerdal's (sic) vampire
> card, as it's a bit harder to casually spoil the entire deck?

I'll discuss this with Scott and Stewart and Steve when they return
from DragonCon.

Thanks.

-Robert

Robert Goudie
V:EKN Storyline Director
vtesstory@white-wolf.com

 

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Robert Goudie wrote:
> Jozxyqk wrote:
>
>>Will the texts of the 3 promo cards and the contents of the Nergal deck
>>be publicly revealed before the Storyline period begins, so people can
>>make an informed decision about whether or not they want to gun for
>>Nergal?

(snip)

> As well, there's no intention to release the contents of the Nergal
> deck before the events. Frankly, I think that would reduce the impact
> of seeing Nergal hit the table and do his thing. I think people will
> enjoy the event more if they don't see everything in advance.

I agree. People would enjoy the event more if it was a surprise.

> However, I don't doubt there will again be some people who post the
> contents on their websites for those who are really really interested
> in doing lots of planning.

Given that you don't doubt it and that we've already seen in the past
that people will be asshats and spoil things whenever possible, why not
put everyone on an equal footing and release the information, much like
was done with Barbaro Lucchese? Specifically, Nerdal's (sic) vampire
card, as it's a bit harder to casually spoil the entire deck?

....Given the tendency of collectible gamers to be, how you say,
"obsessive" over having things nobody else does, I would expect that
competition for the never-to-be-released Special Nerdal Deck will be at
least somewhat heated. Players who gain access to Nerdal's stats and
special early will be able to either (a) spot a clear weakness and
arrange to include cards to handle it in their deck, or (b) realize that
Nerdal is going to cream everyone, and arrange to play a deck that has
the best chance of going into the final in 1st place, knowing they won't
be playing it in that final if they get the chance.

Both ways reduce much of the appeal of playing the final (especially if
some people know and others don't), and both ways reduce the incentive
to play your favorite clans, as if Sense Dep or Seeds of Corruption
proves to be the biggest way to hose Nerdal (I'm assuming neither
obvious tactic will be viable against him), those people will tend to
play Ravnos or Malkavians (hint: Mariel) instead of a clan they might
wish to get a better promo.

- --
Derek

insert clever quotation here
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nozleopeli@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> >
> > I assume that this means Sela is dead?
>
> Well then, I'm making a deck with Sela as my superstar... Lots of
> vendettas and combat... Mmmmmmmmmm...


I was going to do the same specifcally for this tournament, might still
do it through.

 

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John Flournoy wrote:
> Jozxyqk wrote:
> > So, if I play my first 3 rounds with, say, a Gargoyle deck, and I make
> > it into the finals, I can freely choose Nergal without dismissing the
> > fact that *I got into the finals with a Gargoyle deck!*.
> > And if "Nergal+Gargoyles" win the most Storyline tournaments, then the
> > bonus card can be an Infernal Gargoyle toy, or whatever.
> >
> > Thoughts?
>
> If you are correct, and players will not want to volunteer to play the
> Nergal deck, then this is nothing more than "The top 4 players make a
> final with their clan. The 5th place person gets to play the Nergal
> deck."
>
> However, some players will undoubtedly be playing the event primarily
> to have fun (not necessarily to advance a specific clan), and playing
> the Nergal deck sounds like an awful lot of fun to me.

Count me in.

Though I must admit, I've been thinking how much cheese I can "eat" for
that purpose.

The most cheesy deck I've played in a tournament was Gio tap n' bleed.
But I wouldn't try that again, not when aiming for the top seed...

In any case, maybe Princes could encourage Nergal-deck winners to share
the fun and organize special Nergal-nights, when everyone has a shot at
playing it in a fun way.

best,

Fabio "Sooner" Macedo

 

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Peter D Bakija wrote:
> Fabio Sooner wrote:
>
> > The most cheesy deck I've played in a tournament was Gio tap n' bleed.
> > But I wouldn't try that again, not when aiming for the top seed...
>
> Yeah, we can only assume that the Nergal deck is going to be completely
> crazy...

He'll be more powerful than you are used to. He probably cannot take
on all four other players. If he was as powerful as some players are
thinking then everyone would **have to** gang up on him. Since he's
probably *NOT* powerful enough to take on all other players, that opens
up the game to the possibility that someone will leave Nergal around
and try to take him out later. If, for example, Nergal bleeds your
prey for a lot and sends his vampires to torpor, you'll be given the
choice of bleeding your prey or rescuing his vampires to help kill the
Nergal deck.

>--as it is, what with him being everyone's predator and everyone's
> prey, there is nothing keeping the other 4 players from saying "Huh. Lets,
> uh, make sure this guy is destroyed first, and then finsh out a 4 player
> game!", meaning that all 4 players can team up on him right out of the gate.

That's possible. They'd probably be successful too. In practice it may
not work out that way, though. Sorta like the guy with one bullet who
holds off the mob..."which one of you wants to take the bullet?"

> Then his life is likely to be pretty short...

Of course, any Nergal deck player worth his salt is going to do his
best to make it in someone's best interest to oust their prey. Will
you, for example, continue to attack the Nergal deck--risking your own
vampires' health and maybe making it impossible for you to win the
"normal" game that follows? Will you do that when your prey is
tapped-out and has only 1 pool left? Maybe you
will. Do you also trust the other players enough to tap out repeatedly
in front of them? Will your opinion change when your own pool is down
to 1 and your prey has 1 pool and no blockers? If a player breaks the
arrangement and does something self-serving isntead of attacking
Nergal, how will the other players treat them? Will players lie about
their ability to harm Nergal in an effort to preserve their own
resources for the "normal" game? For example, holding onto a Bum's
Rush and telling everyone you don't have any rush cards--just so you
can keep your own vampire alive?

Sorta like the infernal auction seemed like it might result in
"infinite pool" for someone, things like greed, self-interest, and
self-preservation may intervene.

-Robert

Robert Goudie
V:EKN Storyline Director
vtesstory@white-wolf.com

 

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Fabio Sooner wrote:

> The most cheesy deck I've played in a tournament was Gio tap n' bleed.
> But I wouldn't try that again, not when aiming for the top seed...

Yeah, we can only assume that the Nergal deck is going to be completely
crazy--as it is, what with him being everyone's predator and everyone's
prey, there is nothing keeping the other 4 players from saying "Huh. Lets,
uh, make sure this guy is destroyed first, and then finsh out a 4 player
game!", meaning that all 4 players can team up on him right out of the gate.

So unless he has cards like:

Reaction: Burn a vampire who has successfully bled you for more than 0.

Combat: Take no damage from any source this round. Combat immediately ends.

Action: (D) Bleed any player at +10 bleed. This action is unblockable. No
player may play reaction cards during this action.

Combat: Strike: Gain 20 Pool!

Then his life is likely to be pretty short...


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil

 

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Why is Nergal played only in the final round? I suspect this is due to
the storyline? Its just that by the time I made the final, I'd like to
stick with my deck all the way through. And the prelim rounds would be
far more interesting if they were nergal games too, allowing someone to
take a nergal deck all the way through the event.

$.02

 

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talonz wrote:
> Why is Nergal played only in the final round?

Logistics mainly. Figured people wouldn't want to pay for an expensive
storyline kit that had multiple decks. So we designed it for the final
round only. Now that it's designed that way, you'd probably not enjoy
the experience of having that deck at every table.

> I suspect this is due to
> the storyline? Its just that by the time I made the final, I'd like to
> stick with my deck all the way through.

Then finish as one of the top 4 finalists and don't choose to play the
Nergal deck.

I understand that the fifth seeded finalist will lose their ability to
play their own deck. That was a conscious decision since the
alternative would have been a six-player final. The additional rules
will make the final round long-enough. Adding another player didn't
seem like a great idea.

-Robert

Robert Goudie
V:EKN Storyline Director
vtesstory@white-wolf.com

 

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Peter D Bakija wrote:
> Pat wrote:
>
> > Really? You think people won't take the Ultimate Nergal Challenge? That's
> > the whole point of going as far as I'm concerned.
>
> I think it is certainly possibe that some folks will pick Negral as first
> pick immediaely, just for the funny. But I also think it is perfectly
> possible that top seed will be be wanting to try and win with their deck, at
> which point someone else will likely want to be Negral for the spolier and
> the funny.

Yeah, I think it will depend on how attached each player is to their
chosen clan and how important a storyline win is to them.

-Robert

Robert Goudie
V:EKN Storyline Director
vtesstory@white-wolf.com

 

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talonz wrote:

> Why is Nergal played only in the final round? I suspect this is due to
> the storyline? Its just that by the time I made the final, I'd like to
> stick with my deck all the way through. And the prelim rounds would be
> far more interesting if they were nergal games too, allowing someone to
> take a nergal deck all the way through the event.

I dunno--very much like the Infernal Plague event, this one is clearly light
hearted and funny/fun. Sure, if you get into the finals as first seed and
you are doing well, you probably *won't* want to be the Nergal deck, which
is why there is a pecking order. By default, 5th seed is Nergal (and 5th
seed, as bottom seed, is already the least likely to win--sure, nothing is
certain, but ya know, as 5th seed, you are least likely to win). If someone
else other than 5th seed *wants* to be Negral, they have the option, but
otherwise, it is given to 5th seed.

I'd guess that 1st seed (unless the 1st seed player is filled with superior
wacky-itdue, or WAC) isn't likely to pick Nergal. But 4th or 5th seed is
certainly likely to pick Nergal, as:

-Being 4th or 5th seed doesn't give you any seating choice in any case, just
like being Nergal.

-Being 4th or 5th seed, your original deck probably wasn't doing that well
in the first place (I don't know about the rest of y'all, but 5th seed in
local 2R+F events are often is filled by someone with a single VP or two who
wins the tie breaker), meaning you probably don't have much invested in your
initial deck.

-Getting to be Negral likely gives you the ability to play spoiler something
fierce--by taking Negral, yeah, you probably won't win, but you can also
probably make sure that, say, 1st seed doesn't win.

As for taking it through the whole tournament, that would require multiple
Negral decks instead of just 1 (if you get 20 people, you'd need 4 Negral
decks), and you'd need some system for determining who got to be Negral. As
it stands, the final round gets to be extra entertaining, which seems
perfectly reasonable to me.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil

 

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"Peter D Bakija" <pdb6@lightlink.com> wrote in message
news:BF44D1BB.21D41%pdb6@lightlink.com...
> talonz wrote:
>
>> Why is Nergal played only in the final round? I suspect this is due to
>> the storyline? Its just that by the time I made the final, I'd like to
>> stick with my deck all the way through. And the prelim rounds would be
>> far more interesting if they were nergal games too, allowing someone to
>> take a nergal deck all the way through the event.
>
> I dunno--very much like the Infernal Plague event, this one is clearly
> light
> hearted and funny/fun. Sure, if you get into the finals as first seed and
> you are doing well, you probably *won't* want to be the Nergal deck, which
> is why there is a pecking order. By default, 5th seed is Nergal (and 5th
> seed, as bottom seed, is already the least likely to win--sure, nothing is
> certain, but ya know, as 5th seed, you are least likely to win). If
> someone
> else other than 5th seed *wants* to be Negral, they have the option, but
> otherwise, it is given to 5th seed.
>
> I'd guess that 1st seed (unless the 1st seed player is filled with
> superior
> wacky-itdue, or WAC) isn't likely to pick Nergal. But 4th or 5th seed is
> certainly likely to pick Nergal, as:
>

Really? You think people won't take the Ultimate Nergal Challenge? That's
the whole point of going as far as I'm concerned.

- Pat

 

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Pat wrote:

> Really? You think people won't take the Ultimate Nergal Challenge? That's
> the whole point of going as far as I'm concerned.

I think it is certainly possibe that some folks will pick Negral as first
pick immediaely, just for the funny. But I also think it is perfectly
possible that top seed will be be wanting to try and win with their deck, at
which point someone else will likely want to be Negral for the spolier and
the funny.


Peter D Bakija
pdb6@lightlink.com
http://www.lightlink.com/pdb6

"So in conclusion, our business plan is to sell hot,
easily spilled liquids to naked people."
-Brittni Meil

 

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Hi,

Robert Goudie wrote:
>
<snip>
>
> NERGAL VICTORY CONDITIONS
> ========================
> The Nergal deck wins if it is the last player standing. If the Nergal
> deck wins, its player may keep the Nergal deck. If the Nergal deck
> loses, the event's winner keeps the deck.

What happens if the time limit is reached when Nergal
and someone else are still standing?

I guess Nergal's victory condition is not met and the
winner is the "normal" player with most VPs?

What happens if everybody has 0.5 VP and the player
of the Nergal deck was top seeded?

....actually, one may ask many other questions of the same sort, so
I might as well ask for a general clarification about victory
conditions in the Storyline final when the time limit is reached... 🙂

Thanks,
Emiliano

 

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Emiliano Imeroni wrote:
> Hi,
>
> Robert Goudie wrote:
> >
> <snip>
> >
> > NERGAL VICTORY CONDITIONS
> > ========================
> > The Nergal deck wins if it is the last player standing. If the Nergal
> > deck wins, its player may keep the Nergal deck. If the Nergal deck
> > loses, the event's winner keeps the deck.
>
> What happens if the time limit is reached when Nergal
> and someone else are still standing?
>
> I guess Nergal's victory condition is not met and the
> winner is the "normal" player with most VPs?

Correct.

> What happens if everybody has 0.5 VP and the player
> of the Nergal deck was top seeded?

The second seeded player would win based on the seeding tie-breaker.
Nergal's only victory condition is to be the last player standing.

Robert Goudie
V:EKN Storyline Director
vtesstory@white-wolf.com

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

By the way, maybe the question has already
been asked several times, and has been answered
somewhere (on the conclave list?), but since I don't
have access to the conclave and would like to
organize a storyline in Holland anyway...

....is it known how it is possible to get a
storyline kit?

Emiliano
future-ex-primogen of Utrecht 🙂

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.jyhad (More info?)

And can one order multiple kits?We're thinking that while the FINAL
table is the only one that counts another table of the #6-10 seeds
could play a Nergal game also.

-tpl