Another Question

Snorkius · Oct 22, 2003

By how much is PCI-X going to increase performance? Do video cards really need the increased bandwidth? As far as I know, the gain is minimal between AGP 4X and 8X.


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Horace

cleeve · Oct 22, 2003

I think most of us are expecting minimal gains, similar to the 4x to 8x AGP jump.

Admittedly, I don't know much about PCI-X, it's possible that it has features that speed up the entire system and make better use of bandwidth to the video card, but I'm not expecting much.

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speeduk · Oct 22, 2003

Just another reason to upgrade...

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"It's not the spoon that bends, it's only yourself."

Snorkius · Oct 22, 2003

The ISA-PCI was a HUGE jump (in ease of use). Is PCI-X similarly revolutionary? I've read the Intel propaganda but it's hard to separate the BS from the truth.


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Horace

TheGreatGrapeApe · Oct 23, 2003

It's PCI-EX, not PCI-X. And it will open up bandwidth alot, but now one knows if it will matter (depends on what they do with it). Right now few cards see anything other than statistical differences between 4X and 8X, so PCI-EX may bring no gains in the near term. For some people like myself, it's about the ability to have them in an array, although that may or may not be possible depending on how they are setup, but even 1 AGP or PCI-EXGraphics16 beside 2 PCI-EX 4X cards will be faster than 1 agp beside two PCI cards.

We really won't know until they arrive and are properly stressed, configured and poked and proded.

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Snorkius · Oct 23, 2003

Intels "what is PCI-Express" white paper calls it PCI-X. Honest mistake.


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Horace

GeneticWeapon · Oct 23, 2003

shat app

I help because you suck

Snorkius · Oct 23, 2003

<A HREF="http://www.intel.com/technology/pciexpress/downloads/3rdGenWhitePaper.pdf" target="_new"> my lips are sealed </A>


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Horace

TheGreatGrapeApe · Oct 23, 2003

Actually re-read it. I think you're confused. (basically what GW said, but in my 'polite' mode).

Since the file is protected I can't extract the exact lines, but it uses PXI-X as an example of limited bandwidth, either contrasting 3GIO (which became PCI-EX) with PCI-X, or Contrasting both side by side with something else.

It pays to read it and not skim, but then again it's also a very poorly written paper. I give it a C for Crappy Writing style only saved by SOME helpful info for the general public.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

Crashman · Oct 23, 2003

PCI-Express won't have any performance over AGP8x for probably TEN YEARS! Can't believe that? It took 4 years just for cards to fill the bandwidth of AGP2x (so that AGP4x was actually usefull). AGP4x isn't even tapped out yet, and we already have AGP8x.

As for other advantages, it's serial and hot swappable, basically adding USB like ease-of-use to a serial version of the PCI interface.

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TheGreatGrapeApe · Oct 23, 2003

Crash, but if it can utlisize system resources better and more often because the bus isn't a bottle neck, there may be more uses and benifits to it. DaveP gave a good example a while back which did explain a POTENTIAL advantage.

For me it's still about the multiple cards at once, and hopefully that will still be doable (like oly on can run at 16X on the Graphics 16 slot, but ANY card can run on the other PCI-EX slots at the lower throughput (still much faster than plain PCI). That would be my hope/wish.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

Crashman · Oct 23, 2003

I'm hoping a single x32 link will provide all the slots for 1 x16, some x1, and in the "server" class, a couple x4 slots.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
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cdpage · Oct 23, 2003

Woah... hold on here... the PCI-EX or PCI-X (not PCI-EXPRESS) is supposed to be able to take every card? at least evetually? huh... you mean a trully universal slot?

Yea right!

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Crashman · Oct 23, 2003

PCI-EX is an abreviation for PCI-Express, which is the slot standard for 3GIO, which stands for 3rd Generation Input Output. It replaces AGP, PCI, and PCI-X. Slot widths vary from x1 to x16, while connection widths can go up to x32. A PC would likely come with 1 x16 slot for a graphics card, and several x1 slots for everything else. A server/workstation board would likely come with several x4 slots. An x32 interface should be able to serve 1 x16, 3 x4, and 4 x1 slots.

The slots start close to the back of the board, the x1 slot is so small it can be placed between a traditional PCI slot and the edge of the motherboard. It is assumed that many early PCI-Express boards will be made in this fashion, just as many boards included both PCI and ISA.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

cdpage · Oct 24, 2003

PCI-EX is an abreviation for PCI-Express, which is the slot standard for 3GIO, which stands for 3rd Generation Input Output. It replaces AGP, PCI, and PCI-X.

ok i understude that just fine.. but after that...

ok...Slot Widths( i take it PCI-EX slots) are x1-x16???
width is this refering to physical width(x mm wide? don't you mean length?)or as in speed, like AGP 8x

width doesn;t make any sence to me at all...an why would they realise something that is supposed to replace 3 things(AGP PCI and PCI-X) with sometihng that is going to be 4 things itself x1-x4-x16-x32, WTF!!!

im sorry, i am fealing rather ignorant right now... please explain this a little more clearly, i know what ISA, AGP and PCI are. and as far as i can tell PCI-X is just a faster PCI slot. but thats it.
x1-x16? no idea. x32 interface...sounds like you have 3 differant types of slots there...

and what do you mean close to the back...?

and i take it then that these will not be able to house all types of cards then...PCI-EX(x1-x32)..or any other for that matter.

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Edited by cdpage on 10/24/03 01:43 AM.

Crashman · Oct 24, 2003

OK, PCI-Express will have different length slots, an x4 slot has 4x as many signal wires as an x1 slot, and a x16 slot has 16x the signal wires of an x1 slot. You can put an x1 card in an x4 slot, but not vice versa. Most boards will have only 1 x16 slot, but with x1 being nearly twice as fast as standard PCI, it supports most other things.

Server/workstation boards will likely include some x4 slots. Since it's all based of the same hardware, perhaps some enthusiast level boards will as well.

Only a place as big as the internet could be home to a hero as big as Crashman!
Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

cdpage · Oct 24, 2003

ahh, ic ok that makes more scence to me now.

that seems pretty cool.
you said it supports most other things...
do these slots support PCI or PCI-X as well? prolly not AGP i would take it.

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Crashman · Oct 24, 2003

My take on things: Devices that are currently PCI will be changed to PCI-Ex x1 slots. Devices that are currently PCI-X will likely be changed to PCI-Ex x4 slots. Transition boards will include both PCI-Ex and PCI slots. AGP will vanish.

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Only a place as big as the internet could be home to an ego as large as Crashman's!

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