Any reviews for the FX-4170 yet???

[full_out]

I have looked everywhere. Has anyone seen any reviews for the new FX-4170?

 

[nekulturny]

Sorry I stopped reading right after you said that's what the people at AMD say, no offence.

Well you asked, me. AMD/Radeon made that card. I would expect them to know more about it than 3rd party review sites. Its your computer, and your choice, if you don't want my opinion, don't ask for it.

 

[yummerzzz]

They put those recommendations up for majority.
It's to satisfy those with generic PSU's, non enthusiast, non 80Plus PSU's. The third party sites don't necessarily KNOW more, they just aren't trying to market the card for sales.

 

[nekulturny]

Wow someone's panties are in a bunch

#1) Just because "the human eye" can't detect a difference does not mean that there is no difference. If a benchmark shows one CPU gives 60fps and another CPU gives 55fps, then the first CPU is better, even if you cannot tell the difference during gameplay. My premise is based on benchmarks. Your premise, subjectivity, is the one which is absurd. AMD fans right now are the kings of ignoring benchmarks in favor of "you can't tell the difference lulz!!!!11!" ... I half expect people to start breaking out the "human eye can't see more then 24fps" sort of nonsense arguments.

Did you actually watch that video I posted? Showing a side by side comparison of 30 vs 60 FPS? Aside from that, unless you pay 400 dollar minimum, you will not have a computer monitor that will ever show anything more than 60FPS on the screen. Your CPU could be sending 1000 FPS to the monitor, it wont matter. Go back a page and find that video and watch it, don't expect further debate with me until you have comments on it. My arguments of what the human eye cannot see are based on real science. By all means, if you wish to pay more money for something you can't use or notice a difference in, be my guest.

#2) Please show me where anyone has a stable "heavy overclock" on the stock heatsink and then I'll retract my point about needing the extra heatsink. Until then, it's just like me saying I can run my Phenom II at 7 GHz on air.

http://www.legitreviews.com/article/1766/16/

Read it, then sit down sir.

#3) My point had to do with cost of entry. You don't *have* to buy a decent mobo if you want to run an i3 on some sort of low-end gaming rig. You *do* have to buy a decent mobo if you're going to OC an AMD chip without blowing up your VRMs. I agree that it is always a good idea to buy a nice motherboard, but since people so often pick on Intel for platform costs, I think it is worth mentioning that the minimum price of entry is higher for an overclocked FX-41xx than it is for a core i3-2100.

Note: I will not consider "open box" deals to be acceptable for the purpose of this comparison, do not come back and tell me you found an open-box, or used mobo for 20.
No.. its not.. Cheapest AM3+ mobo on Newegg. 50 dollars http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813130638

MSi is a competent motherboard manufacturer, and this board features a 3 year warranty.

Cheapest LGA 1155 mobo on newegg, 47 dollars http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16813186214

Do you care to try that again?

Annnnnnnnd at the end of the day, you *still* need to get your faildozer 41xx higher than 4.5 GHz to match or beat a core i3-2100 in games. No amount of bunched up panties can avoid that fact.

We're talking budget building computers, in terms of that, once again. There is minimal if any difference between 30 and 60FPS as the video I showed points out. There are many other sources at your disposal to confirm the facts if you are so inclined.

Back to price vs performance The FX-4100 AT STOCK SPEEDS per Tomshare article is on average 18 percent lower in average gaming performance than an i3-2100 that costs 12 percent more. BOTH CPUs meet the acceptable 30FPS requirement for acceptable, gameplay again, per Tomshare.

I say again, please sit down sir, you're making a mockery of yourself.

 

[FALC0N]

No but I've seen reviews of the FX-4100 at 4.5ghz, which is faster than the 4170. Even at 4.5ghz, it still get's embarrassed in gaming by a stock i3-2100.

No it doesn't. I don't know where you got that from.

 

[FALC0N]

^^ But thats the point; an overclocked quad core 4100 gets beaten by a stock duo core i3-2100.

NO IT DOESN'T!!! You guys need to actually read the reviews next time.

 

[FALC0N]

AM3+ and AM3 are now dead sockets. Piledriver will not use those sockets. Intel has a much better upgrade path than amd, with socket 1155.

There are at least one, and likely two more rounds of chips minimum on socket AM3+. Where are you guys getting this "information"?

 

[FALC0N]

the FX-4170 is the same as the FX-4100 but with higher clocks, that's it.....
there is not structural changes with the chip or any other changes

Could be binned better.

 

[nekulturny]

the bottom line is the fact that you have to clock the FX-4100 @ 4.5GHz to compete and sometimes beat an i3-2100 @ 3.1GHz
is an utter disappointment on AMD's part.
the fact that the FX-4100 only cost like $90 is because the performance is crap.

but you can overclock the crap to 4.5GHz.
but it's crap and therefore @ 4.5GHz the IPC just then meets Intel's..

FAIL.

I don't necessarily disagree with everything you're saying. I definitely agree that FX is a disappointment, Even so. Someone who truly wants the best performance they can get is not going to buy the i3 or an FX, or even a Phenom II. Not everyone has lots of money to blow on a computer system, the point is in terms of practical gaming on the budget level, the FX-4100 will do everything its competitor will do. If we all could afford the best performance money could buy, we'd all have i7 extremes with GTX 680s in quadruple Sli.

I don't have a problem with people pointing out that Bulldozers are a disappointment, what I have a problem with is illogical, exaggerated and impractical arguments. If one wants to criticize, it needs to be done accurately. Tomshare is a forum geared towards science and fact. If people want to play in the land of make believe where a complete understanding of all relevant hard data is unimportant, than maybe this forum isn't for them.

 

[FALC0N]

true I guess but there isn't any stepping revisions or anything else.

Hey what happened to Yoda?

 

[nekulturny]

if the FX-4100 was to be around $80 then I might...
think about it.

but in the end, one more check get you a 965BE or greater.

Well I made my choice too. When I built my system it came down to FX-4100 (at the time priced at 140), 2500k or Phenom II. I knew I wanted a CPU I could play with the overclock settings as a learning experience, I chose the Phenom II, because I realized it was superior, and I really don't have the need for a 220 dollar processor with the things I do with my computer. In terms of practicality, it does everything the 2500k would do and was substantially cheaper. Now that the FX-4100 is priced around 100 bucks.. Would I buy it today if I were building my computer? I might have, but probably not.

 

[nekulturny]

and I'd still talk bad about you and it.... 😛

Oh sure, I wouldn't recognize you if you didn't LOL. But seriously, I'm not a heavy gamer at all. I barely play any games. I play Runescape which is a single core java game. So, yes, this is where the individual core performance counts. Although, currently I'm considering even quitting Runescape as the in-game botting (gold farmers selling in game currency for real world money) has gotten so out of control it has seriously hindered my ability to do things I want to do in the game.

 

[nekulturny]

off topic, any strange FB request lately...

Yea lol, I accepted it.

 

[nekulturny]

No it doesn't. I don't know where you got that from.

His most compelling argument that I've seen thus far is power consumption. While the wattage difference is substantial, in terms of an electric bill, it is not. I dismiss the argument because its like a guy with a little honda civic trying to say his car is better than a souped up chevy blazer because the civic gets 12mpg more on the highway. Yea.. Well how well does the civic do off road? Not very well indeed. In the same token, the FX-4100 can be overclocked an i3 cannot. Some people want to overclock their CPUs regardless of how much more power it uses. Its all a matter of what features a person wants at their budget.

I drive an RSX Type S, I know how foolish it is to try to compare it to a souped up SUV. My car may be faster, but with almost no ground clearance, I have no business trying to say overall its a better vehicle.

 

[nekulturny]

lol nekulturney

i honestly feel bad for ya, trying to defend such a bad CPU and all...

as for me, I see no point in arguing against faildozer apologists

If you want to buy an inferior CPU, buy FX. If you want to get the best for your money, buy Intel. /thread

Goodbye , come back when you aren't cherry picking facts and setting up straw-man arguments to substantiate your claims.

BTW, you said youd concede the point if I provided evidence that a substantial overclock is possible on the stock fan. You too busy trying to bow out of a logical discussion that you forgot to keep your promises? Or were you lying because you didn't research enough to know such evidence exists?

 

[nekulturny]

So... the toms hardware benchmark where they compared all the sub $200 CPUs is "cherry picking" now, is it?

:lol:

People who ignore benchmarks are so sadly hilarious.

I thought you said you were leaving? Seriously, you're using nothing but straw man arguments, you didn't bother to give any point-by point responses to my point by point rebuttals to your arguments. If you're not going to debate properly, then you simply will not get any time invested on my part.

I've read every article tom share has on the subject, again.. Buy whatever you like, but don't come here expecting a logical and factual debate if you are not prepared to discuss all relevant information to said facts.

And that very article that you linked to is one I have already referenced to you Seriously, L2readingcomprehension. The price points are outdated from the time of that article writing, which is very relevant if the article's entire point is to do a price point comparison.

 

[nekulturny]

So the toms benchmarks are now BOTH cherry picking and "straw man arguments"

:lol: :lol: :lol:

BTW I did check your link about the FX-4100 @ stock HSF @ 4.5-4.6 GHz. Fine. Problem is, it's still just a tie with a stock i3-2100. It's not better. And, you're generating more heat and using wayyyyyy more power and shortening the life of your system.

You have no arguments... your posts are the same as everyone else who tries to ignore benchmarks with garbage arguments like "lol the human eye can only see 24fps". You aren't making that particular argument, but your logic is of the same quality.

Benchmarks exist for a reason. I'd advise you to use them.

No Tomshare is not cherry picking and straw man arguments. You are. If you cannot follow basic logic, I cannot have a reasonable discussion with you.

And since you lied about leaving, twice.. I'll end our exchange myself, since I clearly have willpower you lack.. Goodbye.

 

[yummerzzz]

Sorry but this one question pretty much kills your argument.

Lot's of people bought AM3+ motherboards, how would it be cheaper for them to buy an i3?

 

[nekulturny]

Sorry but this one question pretty much kills your argument.

Lot's of people bought AM3+ motherboards, how would it be cheaper for them to buy an i3?

LOL you're wasting your time. His arguments are all over the board, he uses a price point comparison, complete with an article with out of date prices. When correct and current price updates are applied, he reverts to the benchmarks, and uses a straw man to accuse others of trying to say the FX-4100 has better benchmarks. Disputing facts not in dispute. I have already stipulated that I concur with the Tomeshare article that says on average the i3 is 18 percent better. (In the same sense of an i5-2400 is better than an i3-2100) It is also 12 percent more expensive. What he misses is, I was never disputing that it was a slightly better CPU, the question is how much better for what price difference.

He also claimed that in order to run a stable overclock, one must purchase a substantially more expensive motherboard. When I proved this false, he reverted to his silly "I feel sorry for you post". Typical ego-fueled stubbornness. A logical person would have presented an argument that the MSI board I showed wasn't capable of maintaining a stable overclock.

He has demonstrated inability or unwillingness to follow a logical thought pattern, its a waste of time

 

[nekulturny]

18% better for 12% more money is a better value for the money.

derp derp

Also, they can be found for the same price if you live near a microcenter.

And what percent better for what percent more money is the i5-2400 over the i3-2100? How about the i7 2700k over the i5-2400 See, you still don't get it.

 

[nekulturny]

What don't I get? I'm talking only about FX-41xx and i3-21xx. I've never made arguments about other CPUs in here. This topic is about the FX-41xx. The FX-41xx competes against core i3, and it loses. It doesn't compete against core i5 or i7.

You just got mad that I called you out on making irrelevant argumentation about "lulz u cant tell teh difference between fx-4100 and i3-2100" and ever since have just been looking for a fight.

Not my fault you chose to make stupid arguments.

This is the future of America's youth. 😗

 

[nekulturny]

ad hominem attacks don't make your arguments any more intelligent, unfortunately 🙁

Neither does expecting a product currently priced at 109 vs a product priced at 125 to perform exactly the same. If you don't understand that yet, you never will.

 

[nekulturny]

ooooooooooh but I'd expect a product priced at $109 to perform 109/125ths of the performance of a $125 CPU

Annnnnnnnnd it doesnt.

Also, depending on where you look, the i3-2100 can be found for the same price as the fx-4100.

You're slowly starting to get it! There may be hope for you yet. I prefer to be an optimist.
No, it performs on average 18 percent for 12 percent less. Thats 6 percent. 6 whole percent? what a big deal that is. A number which is substantially tightened up by the FX-4100 overclocking capabilities that the i3 lacks.

But heres where you go wrong... The places you find the i3-2100 cheaper than the Newegg price I quoted, you also find the FX-4100 cheaper... Thats a pretty big hole in your last statement, you're not a stupid person, surely you saw the hole in that argument?

Although you are correct about MicroCenter in this case both CPUs are priced at 99.99, however, one must actually live a reasonable distance from a MicroCenter. The closest one to where I live is a 3 hour drive one way.

The other problem with MicroCenter is their customer service, they have a horrible reputation. Slow shipping times (yes I personally have ordered from them) and they hit you up with tax and shipping.. Meanwhile Newegg and TigerDirect do not charge me shipping for most of my orders, nor do they charge me sales tax.

1 star from 209 reviews. http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Micro_Center

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Newegg

http://www.resellerratings.com/store/Tiger_Direct

One must consider not only the types of parts they by, but the reputation of the merchant they buy them from.

I'd go into my shopping experience with them, but do you really care?

 

[nekulturny]

I think you're the one who doesn't get it... 6% is still 6%

Not to mention that on newegg, the core i3-2120 is currently $112... just $13 more than the fx-4100.

I just don't understand why you're trying to defend faildozer except that you're having trouble unbunching your panties from some truly irrelevant arguments you made on the previous page.

I'm not defending faildozer. As I mentioned before, you can criticize it all you want. But if you're going to criticize it, do it accurately. Do you get it yet? I don't like Bulldozer either, but I'm not going to sit here and exaggerate how bad it actually is. Heres an example: I don't Obama, I think hes a horrible president. But for the sake of logic, is it fair if I go around telling people he came to my house and stole 20 bucks from me? No. It would be a lie. If you're going to criticize something, again, feel free. But don't make it up as you go along.

I don't have "bunched up panties" and seriously, if you want to have an adult discussion, speak like one.

 

[nekulturny]

All I've said is that FX-4100 is a worse CPU AND a worse value than core i3-2100.

I'm sorry that upsets you, but it's accurate.

And this is where the logic breaks down. You're right its a worse CPU, but you're wrong about value. Its a cheaper CPU that doesn't perform as well the more expensive one. It also has expandability features that the more expensive one does not.

No, it doesn't "upset" me. I'm not an employee of AMD, I'm not a stockholder in AMD, I have absolutely no personal invested interest in AMD. Under that same logic I can say you're getting upset because I won't agree with you.

 

[nekulturny]

But



Not to mention that currently the i3-2120 is >18% faster, for 12-13% less.

Also, you've put up several walls of text trying to argue against my very simple posts. You don't seem to understand that the fx-41xx needs to be priced around the $90 ish mark to be as good a value as the i3-21xx

Your entire argument has been based on "slightly slower" being irrelevant, and based on your several walls of text I'd say you're just raging that I called you out for such a crap argument.

We were discussing 2100 vs 4100.. That was the parameter you set for the discussion.

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16819115077 Sale price is 15 off this week for the i3-2120

Thats a sale price. Last week the FX-4100 was 99.99 on Newegg. Next week maybe some other CPU will be on sale for 10, 15 or 20 dollars off. Things go "on sale" and off sale all the time. Thats the same reason I told you on the last page not to count an "open box" deal. For an accurate comparison, you have to compare the normal, everyday price of items.

As far as the "raging" If you say so. Tell you what, you buy whatever you want. I really don't care. LOL. Seriously, you're accusing me of being upset, angry, "madbro".. Is silly... And I have better things to do.