Apple: Netbooks Don't Deserve Mac Brand

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[citation][nom]hallic7[/nom](here's the evil part I think) [/citation]

Evil? Please, such a victim. Look every company has the right to determine it's price, and in the end consumers decide how much something is worth when they purchase it or purchase something else. It's call economics. There is nothing evil about it. Just because some people place value in things that you don't seem to care about, coolness, design, OSX etc. . . doesn't mean they are stupid. With that argument any company that doesn't design their computers to be super-cheap is evil.
 
It would be nice if apple just one day blow the f*** up! Seriously, they offer nothing. I would love if apple competed more with windows to create more competition. O well, prolly best they stay out anyway. Their netbook will only end up as a nice paper weight.
 
[citation][nom]mrfisthand[/nom]“We don’t know how to build a sub-$500 computer that is not a piece of junk,” That sounds like a personal problem Steve[/citation]
Definitely..

I bought my quad core 3 gig of ram two 320gb hard drive compy for 467.. I then added a graphics card and better PSU for about 200..

But even then, if I had been a non-gamer I wouldn't of had to add anything! So what is this about "there isn't a good computer for under 500" Or does Jobs define computers only as laptops?
 
i think that part of the reason that apple don't want to get into netbook market is because there are little profit in the os, i think microsoft os license per netbook is $15, that's right only $15 and the hardward vendors are not doing too much better on a #250-$300 netbook.

http://www.tomshardware.com/news/Windows-7-starter-Netbooks-15,7573.html

http://www.crunchgear.com/2008/07/21/netbook-margins-so-low-some-pc-makers-not-even-going-to-bother/

http://www.theinquirer.net/inquirer/news/373/1050373/netbooks-atom-and-a-tale-of-intel-s-diminishing-profit-margins
 
[citation][nom]rooseveltdon[/nom]not really bro,yeah the mac osx is cool but it does not do anything special and relevant that windows cannot do. then you you talk about the most trivial things in most tests and benchmarks when they rate the best laptops out there hp usually outperforms macs and has better price to performance ratio many tech people wont spend an extra 1000 dollars for a pretty track pad or back lit led screens....this is the problem with apple fan boys,you guys seem unable to realize that all those pretty things you guys always boast about (rarely every benchmarks or actual real world performance) do not warrant the price for those machines add the fact that by buying them you are limited in hardware selection and that there is a very strong chance you will end up having to run windows anyway for several programs and apps and voila, a 1000 dollar waste that you could have used to get an hp with better performance and less cost. and even in prettiness there are much better looking lap tops than macs but to you that might sound like martian because you are trying to justify spending an extra 500 for a pretty trackpad lol[/citation]

Everyone here knows that, I am so tired to see the same old crap being said over and over and over and over again. Everyone here knows you pay more for an apple computer while you can have the same stuff on windows and an other brand. Even though I am one of those who's ready to pay a small premium because I can appreciate the very careful, aesthetic and yet more functional design of macbooks, it is true that you are paying more.

Now though, what you have to understand is simple, not everoyne is like you, not everyone knows very much about computer, and most laptop looks like shit compared to macbooks. You might think this is irrelevant because you are, like I am, a power user that build is own desktops and expect a laptop to be as functional as your desktop without paying a premium for style, but this is where you are wrong.

Computers are everywhere nowaday, there was once a time when computers where about functionality first because the market was evolving much faster but things have now slowed down somehow, why do you think we are even discussing about netbooks? It is simply because, while computers have reached the majority of the population, the things people do with computers has barely changed. People do not need a super fast i7 processor any more to send email and or to browse the web or review documents and or to listen to music, yet that is exactly what most people do with with their computer and a netbook can pretty much do all that.

So yes, this just goes to show my point that the fashion element is very relevant and shouldnt be tossed away like you are doing. Why do you think apple started selling so many of these macbooks.... cuz their cute the end. You might think there is a debate about macbooks being better etc but as you said, we know there is none and all these talks are bullshit.
But it doesnt matter.
 
[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]Evil? Please, such a victim. Look every company has the right to determine it's price, and in the end consumers decide how much something is worth when they purchase it or purchase something else. It's call economics. There is nothing evil about it. Just because some people place value in things that you don't seem to care about, coolness, design, OSX etc. . . doesn't mean they are stupid. With that argument any company that doesn't design their computers to be super-cheap is evil.[/citation]

I think you did not read all my post with attention...

If you have knowledge of an item you are trying to sell to someone who does not know anything about it, you can tell the person that the item has great specs to improve your chances of selling the item. Obviously the person can't argue because it does not have the knowledge to do so.

At the end you sell your item (based on the specs you talked about and they could be true or false), and you are doing evil taking advantage of the fact that your customer did not know anything about the "tech specs" to give a well-based opinion about the thing he/she bought.

If you consider this to be a good practice it would be very sad for you...
 
I'd be wary about dissing Apple's build quality. Their computers have industry leading reliability and longevity. Part of that is a conservative design philosophy that doesn't push hardware performance envelopes. You won't see, for example, a heavily overclocked Mac loaded to the max with heat-producing extras.

Secondly, their support also tops the industry charts. And they include a highly praised operating system and gui that has a reputation for performance, reliability and ease of use.

You don't get any of that for free. When you buy Apple, you buy a Rolls Royce not a Chevrolet. Sure you can get something cheaper or faster but that's not the point. You get the Apple/Rolls because you don't want to worry. You want to be pampered.

Apple could buy a white-box netbook and sell it with their branding. Maybe they could even put OS/X on it. But they couldn't sell it for the same price as Acer without dropping the quality control and support that distinguishes their brand.

And could they get OS/X to keep it's responsiveness on an Atom processor? If not, why should they sell something that would tarnish their reputation? Put a faster processor in it and now you're faced with a raft of other problems to solve.

Apple's probably correct to avoid the netbook market, although it would interesting to see what they could come up with. I'll bet they tried but couldn't really come up with something cool enough to deserve the Apple label.
 
We don't know how to build a sub-$500 computer that is not a piece of junk. Because the Apple tax is generally at least $500. If we charged only $500 for a computer, that computer would have to be an empty shell. Other companies know how to do it, but WE don't.
 
[citation][nom]hallic7[/nom]If you have knowledge of an item you are trying to sell to someone who does not know anything about it, you can tell the person that the item has great specs to improve your chances of selling the item. [/citation]

Apple doesn't sell their products based on tech specs vs price. They place value on their ease of use (OSX), packaging (build quality), and customer support (genius bar). Macs have plenty of power to accomplish what they sell them for. I can barely get an Apple store guy to talk about specs period, nor have I ever heard them say they were the cheapest solution. I do not see them misrepresenting their pricepoints to anyone.

And that whole $1000 difference is not there. I'll give you $500 at most for similar hardware, and the Mac will have superior build quality. Just look at how much Dell charges for Adamo laptops, which don't even have a graphics card. Starts at $1999! that's macbook pro territory, which will have a graphics card.

Apple starts out on the premium side; that's what your bean counting doesn't take into consideration. Just remember that Apple has huge customer loyalty, and it isn't because people feel they got cheated.
 
[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]Well, if the hardware is the same and mine is running OSX, it probably will perform better. I think there are a lot more knowledgable hardware people out there using Macs than most people on this site think. When it all comes down to it, the knowledgable hardware guy knows that unless you are gaming, there's not much speed difference between computers anyway, past ugrading your RAM and adding a decent graphics card. I do however like Apples new unibody design (laptops) and I like the new track pad. That is hardware, that is really unavailable to HP users. Their LED backlit screens are also gorgeous, although you can find them on other notebooks.[/citation]

You might be right about the same hardware performing better under a mac os. I don't know that, because i havent done any direct comparisons between osx and windows. And yes unless you are gaming, audio/video editing, or running any other strenuous apps, you probably won't notice very much in the way of performance differences. BUT, with the money i would save by not buying a mac, i would definitely upgrade the hardware and still have plenty of room to be well under the cost of a mac. THEN i would notice a difference in not only the strenuous apps, but probably the basic ones too. I do play games, so that performance is important to me. You might not be in need of the extra performance, so you opt for something you find to be quality built and aesthetically appealing. I can respect that.

[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]More like a $20 pair of jeans and a $30 pair of jeans. A computer is a big purchase; nothing wrong with getting what you like.[/citation]

Once again, i agree that you should get what you like, just as long as people know what exactly they are and are not getting. and after that they can decide if the 50% markup($20 to $30) is worth the purchase.

[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]Evil? Please, such a victim. Look every company has the right to determine it's price, and in the end consumers decide how much something is worth when they purchase it or purchase something else. It's call economics. There is nothing evil about it. Just because some people place value in things that you don't seem to care about, coolness, design, OSX etc. . . doesn't mean they are stupid. With that argument any company that doesn't design their computers to be super-cheap is evil.[/citation]

I too agree it's a companies decision on the path they pave for themselves. I just hope that this was indeed a legit economic decision and not just apple saying they are too good for those kind of prices. To me, that would just be a slap in the face to people who maybe wanted macs, but knew they couldn't afford them.

I'm still trying to figure out how it is uneconomical to produce an apple brand netbook. My only guess is that they have a profit margin that they feel they must keep. However i am not apple, so i don't know.
 
[citation][nom]tehjord[/nom]Everyone here knows that, I am so tired to see the same old crap being said over and over and over and over again. Everyone here knows you pay more for an apple computer while you can have the same stuff on windows and an other brand. Even though I am one of those who's ready to pay a small premium because I can appreciate the very careful, aesthetic and yet more functional design of macbooks, it is true that you are paying more. Now though, what you have to understand is simple, not everoyne is like you, not everyone knows very much about computer, and most laptop looks like shit compared to macbooks. You might think this is irrelevant because you are, like I am, a power user that build is own desktops and expect a laptop to be as functional as your desktop without paying a premium for style, but this is where you are wrong. Computers are everywhere nowaday, there was once a time when computers where about functionality first because the market was evolving much faster but things have now slowed down somehow, why do you think we are even discussing about netbooks? It is simply because, while computers have reached the majority of the population, the things people do with computers has barely changed. People do not need a super fast i7 processor any more to send email and or to browse the web or review documents and or to listen to music, yet that is exactly what most people do with with their computer and a netbook can pretty much do all that. So yes, this just goes to show my point that the fashion element is very relevant and shouldnt be tossed away like you are doing. Why do you think apple started selling so many of these macbooks.... cuz their cute the end. You might think there is a debate about macbooks being better etc but as you said, we know there is none and all these talks are bullshit.But it doesnt matter.[/citation]

agreed,however my problem is not that...my problem is the fact that these guys start acting all mightier than thou and start talking smack about pc's like they actually know what goes in one,thats what makes me angry,if you have the money and you like a mac buy one but don't come at me and say oh well my mac is better because it has a pretty trackpad that sht gets me angry and no the mark up is right moreover less than 1000 dollars for a laptop is standard for me i would only spend more than a 1000 bucks for a laptop if i wanted a mobile gaming system,there is nothing a macbook pro offers at least as far as functionality that i can't get for waaaayyyy less elsewhere you know this just as well as i do,the average student in america does not need to spend 2000 dollars for a laptop thats just silly and as far as desktops go lol don't get me started on those, my 800 dollar deskptop smokes my friend's mac pro that he spent over 2000 dollar to get,and my customized linux mint OS makes his os x look like a made in china version of my os. Bottom line is, i dont mind people buying macs or apple products just don't start acting as if what you got is better than mine just because you were foolish enough to spend an extra 1000 dollars based on what justin long said on tv.
 
“We don’t know how to build a sub-$500 computer that is not a piece of junk,” Jobs said late last year

Translation - APPLE to English:

We could make a netbook, but we won't sell anything that won't bring at least 90% profit per PC.


Let's face it, a 2500$ mac costs around 900$ to build.
 
[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]Apple doesn't sell their products based on tech specs vs price. They place value on their ease of use (OSX), packaging (build quality), and customer support (genius bar). Macs have plenty of power to accomplish what they sell them for. I can barely get an Apple store guy to talk about specs period, nor have I ever heard them say they were the cheapest solution. I do not see them misrepresenting their pricepoints to anyone. And that whole $1000 difference is not there. I'll give you $500 at most for similar hardware, and the Mac will have superior build quality. Just look at how much Dell charges for Adamo laptops, which don't even have a graphics card. Starts at $1999! that's macbook pro territory, which will have a graphics card. Apple starts out on the premium side; that's what your bean counting doesn't take into consideration. Just remember that Apple has huge customer loyalty, and it isn't because people feel they got cheated.[/citation]

If you customize an Hp HDX and Macbook Pro, you can easily find a $1000 difference in both the basic hardware configurations and fully decked out hardware configurations. The hp's hardware will also be much faster and still that much cheaper. The websites' customization browsers don't lie.

You can't compare to a Dell Adamo. Why? Because Adamo is Dell's attempt at offering something like apple, and they are trying to jack their prices up to try and get the same profit margin as apple. I don't think it works very well for them though. It is silly that you pay 2 grand and don't even get a dedicated graphics card. But once again it's what the consumer wants. If they don't need a graphics card, and the computer is appealing to them, then someone will buy it. These are the same kind of situations apple markets to.
 
[citation][nom]rooseveltdon[/nom]agreed,however my problem is not that...my problem is the fact that these guys start acting all mightier than thou and start talking smack about pc's like they actually know what goes in one,thats what makes me angry,if you have the money and you like a mac buy one but don't come at me and say oh well my mac is better because it has a pretty trackpad that sht gets me angry and no the mark up is right moreover less than 1000 dollars for a laptop is standard for me i would only spend more than a 1000 bucks for a laptop if i wanted a mobile gaming system,there is nothing a macbook pro offers at least as far as functionality that i can't get for waaaayyyy less elsewhere you know this just as well as i do,the average student in america does not need to spend 2000 dollars for a laptop thats just silly and as far as desktops go lol don't get me started on those, my 800 dollar deskptop smokes my friend's mac pro that he spent over 2000 dollar to get,and my customized linux mint OS makes his os x look like a made in china version of my os. Bottom line is, i dont mind people buying macs or apple products just don't start acting as if what you got is better than mine just because you were foolish enough to spend an extra 1000 dollars based on what justin long said on tv.[/citation]

I can agree with that more or less. I too think everyone has their own thoughts on what is worth their money. But don't try and sell me the story that your hardware is better than mine because of the money you spent on your mac.
 
[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]Apple doesn't sell their products based on tech specs vs price. They place value on their ease of use (OSX), packaging (build quality), and customer support (genius bar). Macs have plenty of power to accomplish what they sell them for. I can barely get an Apple store guy to talk about specs period, nor have I ever heard them say they were the cheapest solution. I do not see them misrepresenting their pricepoints to anyone.[/citation]

WTF!!!

Please, don't be such a fanboy...

- Ease of use!? if you can't use Windows/Ubuntu you have a problem!!!

- Packaging (build quality)!? What the hell do you mean!?
If you talk about hardware here please take a look at some benchmarks from build PCs vs Mac(LOL), in a Mac you have limited hardware possibilities, I can upgrade my PC with excellent and better components than Mac anytime I want and for less $$$

- Customer support!? I've talked to many people using components from Asus, MSI, Intel, XFX(myself), Acer, AOC, etc, all with excellent customer service as well, and for half the money!!

So, what's the point??
 
“We don’t know how to build a sub-$500 computer that is not a piece of junk,”
...Good point, why build a sub - $500 one when you can build a $2000 dollar one that's just as shitty!
 
to the comment about netbooks being an extension of the pc, I agree. SO does Dell, they offer their mini 9 as an add on to the 17" laptops. I have looked at netbooks as something fun to have for traveling and such, but cant justify it having already purchased a 32gb ipod touch.
 
here is another reason why apple may not want to do a netbook, performance. from what i've been googling osx is a bit of a piggie, you read complaints all the time about how slow it is on an old mac mini, well a netbook is way slower than the slowest mac mini, a 1.6 ghz atom is like a 900 mhz p3, yeap, slow and it does not have that much memory nor storage, so when you load osx, iwork, ilife, ect how well will it run. there, all that eye candy comes at a price, in performance and memory utilization. i know, i know people have created hackintosh netbooks using dell 910, but even they say it's very slow, try doing anything on it. try loading the os and the apps, you need more than 16 gb ssd, larger than is normally provided in $250-$300 netbook, ok bump the price to $500 for an apple netbook, and it starts to be expensive, you could buy a real small screen for that and get a real cpu, harddisk, ect. i know there are netbooks with 160mb harddisk, but they tend to cost more and are closer in price to regular notebooks, so they would only attrack a very small market share for all the effort and if they did a great job may undercut there more profitable notebook sales, so they sell a $500 netbook and lose a $1000 notebook sale, i don't see apple wanting to play there, but isn't that what they have said. they are happy to be the overpriced option and make the margins...
 
[citation][nom]touchdowntexas13[/nom]If you customize an Hp HDX and Macbook Pro, you can easily find a $1000 difference in both the basic hardware configurations and fully decked out hardware configurations. [/citation]

Actually the price would be $1249 and that's without DDR3 RAM or an LED screen which saves power. + $130 for some type of video/photo software + the price the average user is going to have to pay bestbuy to wipe all the crapware off the computer. What $129 now? + probably MS office $149.

Regardless, still not $1000. $750 if you use all your free software and know what you are doing, and again the build quality isn't even close. Also I'd pay $250 for DDR3 and an LED screen, considering it is a laptop. Back to $500

So, would I pay $500 for style, a sweet build quality and OSX? Since I use my computer every day, the answer is yes. Same reason I bought a Toyota Tacoma over a Chevy Colorado, an extra $5000. Haven't regretted that decision one day.

By the way the average anti-mac computer builders spend ridiculous amounts of money buying the latest hardware that is marked up way above the production costs. Guess we should be mad at Intel for starting their high-end processors at $600. Again, perceived value is relative. Why is my interest in style and build quality any less valid than someone else's desire to be king of the LAN parties?
 
“We don’t know how to build a sub-$500 computer that is not a piece of junk,”


YET they can still build $1200+ computers that are still POS systems. I have one. I fell into the college discount. They ripped me of my iPod. They gave me a F-ed up problemtic, most likely refurbished computer. Had to complain to corporate to get a replacement, but the Apple store that replaced it for me cheated me yet again. I tried to like Apple. I've only found their build quality to be inferior, and the techs behind the desk with the fancy shirt and tags to be Mac retards.
 
[citation][nom]69camaroSS[/nom]Actually the price would be $1249 and that's without DDR3 RAM or an LED screen which saves power. + $130 for some type of video/photo software + the price the average user is going to have to pay bestbuy to wipe all the crapware off the computer. What $129 now? + probably MS office $149. Regardless, still not $1000. $750 if you use all your free software and know what you are doing, and again the build quality isn't even close. Also I'd pay $250 for DDR3 and an LED screen, considering it is a laptop. Back to $500 So, would I pay $500 for style, a sweet build quality and OSX? Since I use my computer every day, the answer is yes. Same reason I bought a Toyota Tacoma over a Chevy Colorado, an extra $5000. Haven't regretted that decision one day. By the way the average anti-mac computer builders spend ridiculous amounts of money buying the latest hardware that is marked up way above the production costs. Guess we should be mad at Intel for starting their high-end processors at $600. Again, perceived value is relative. Why is my interest in style and build quality any less valid than someone else's desire to be king of the LAN parties?[/citation]


Hp HDX18
Components

* • Upgrade to Genuine Windows Vista Home Premium with Service Pack 1 (64-bit)
* • Intel(R) Core(TM)2 Quad Processor QX9300 (2.53Hz)
* • $100 OFF!! 8GB DDR3 System Memory (2 Dimm) - For 1GB Nvidia GeForce GT 130M
* • 640GB 7200RPM SATA Dual Hard Drive (320GB x 2) with HP ProtectSmart Hard Drive Protection
* • 1GB Nvidia GeForce GT 130M - For DDR3 Memory
* • 18.4" diagonal High Definition HP Ultra BrightView Infinity Display (1920x1080p)
* • Blu-Ray ROM with SuperMulti DVD+/-R/RW Double Layer
* • Webcam + Fingerprint Reader with HP Imprint Finish (Fluid)
* • Intel Next-Gen Wireless-N Mini-card with Bluetooth
* • No TV Tuner w/remote control
* • HP Color Matching Keyboard
* • 8 Cell Lithium Ion Battery

Total: $3163

Macbook Pro 17 in.
components:

2.93 GHz Intel Core 2 Duo
8Gb 1066 MHz DDR3 Ram
320 Gb 7200 RPM HD
Superdrive 8x dvdr/rw + cdrw
17 in. high resolution widescreen display

Total: $4149

Difference between them $986
What does does the hp offer that apple doesnt?
quad core processor compared to dual core
640 GB HD compared to 320
1 GB Nvidia GT130M compared to 512 Mb Nvidia Geforce 9600M GT
18.4 inch display compared to 17 inch
Blu-ray compared to dvd player
fingerprint reader compared to no fingerprint reader...

You are really stretching mac fanboyism by saying that i will need best buy to "wipe all the crapware off of the computer". thats a load of bull crap. Why do i need the video/photo software? Do i need MS Office? Heck i can get it for $30 at my university computer store. That's like me saying that EVERY STINKIN MAC USER MUST BUY A COPY OF WINDOWS SO THEY CAN PLAY GAMES AND HAVE COMPATIBILITY WITH OTHER SOFTWARE!!! SO MAYBE YOU SHOULD ADD THE COST OF THAT TO YOUR TOTAL. Keep a level playing field here. This is ridiculous. $1000 difference easy.

 
[citation][nom]apple fanboys everywhere[/nom]God....69camaroASS is such a whiny follower. He can only repeat what these corporations tell him to believe. Stop trying to fool yourself into believing that you are some sort of an elitist...We sure as hell aren't believing it. Go play WoW and passout please.[/citation]


Look all I'm trying to say is I see value in what you don't see value in. It does not make me stupid, ignorant, or elitist. If I had $2000 to spend, I'd buy a Macbook Pro. It does everything I need it too, and I like the way it is built and the operating system that it is based around. If I was stuck with $1500, I would be forced to buy a PC laptop, because I do some heavy video/photo editting. I don't get mad at a company just because I can't afford their product, however. Otherwise I would hate BMW, Mercedes, Ferrari and every other high-end company. Again, Apple is not losing a bunch of customers because they are mad they paid too much money.
 
they couldn't sell a netbook because they couldn't attach their apple tax of $500 and make the netbook less than the entry level macbook. LOL.
 
Nice try Jobs, you can try to justify not pursuing netbooks by saying that they're not up to snuff. I'm not a fan of netbooks either, but its obvious Apple just doesn't have the R&D base or capital to invest into other product lines. I can actually see people being interested in an Apple netbook.
 
[citation][nom]Dax Corrin[/nom]Nice, now we throw some racism in there as well. Way to look neo-Nazii, ChaosGS.[/citation]

Srry bro but that really not racism...possibly prejudiced, but not racism...
 
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