Apple Now Worth More than Google and Microsoft Combined

Page 4 - Seeking answers? Join the Tom's Hardware community: where nearly two million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.
Status
Not open for further replies.

zhihong0321

Distinguished
Dec 7, 2011
8
0
18,510
[citation][nom]p05esto[/nom]Tom's is starting to suck. Computer enthusiasts do NOT buy or use lame, closed system and overpriced Apple products. We've been telling Tom's and other tech sites this for many years and they STILL are not listening. Hear us now: WE DO NOT WANT TO HEAR OR READ ABOUT APPLE CRAP. We like performance computers, things we can tinker with and build ourselves. Apple products are for sheep and retarded hipsters who drive hybrid vehicles and sit at Starbucks.[/citation]

I dont like to speak like that, But. I am agreed!
 

bunz_of_steel

Distinguished
Dec 10, 2008
294
0
18,780
Don't care...... Another story of the rich corporations, ceo's, execs & millionaires. okay lil dramatic there but how some folks feel. I don't care about how much a half bitten apple is worth. lets get back to tech!
 

beardguy

Distinguished
Dec 10, 2010
456
0
18,780
[citation][nom]zhihong0321[/nom]Buy i-product - Support Slavery![/citation]

Ok hypocrite, do you own a PC? Or any other modern technology? where do you think the parts inside your fancy PC or devices came from? I'll tell you where, from some factory in China where the same shit is probably going on. The problem is way bigger than Apple, but you can go ahead and remain in a state of biased ignorance.
 
G

Guest

Guest
This is just more evidence that many of the people of this world are easily conned into buying overpriced badly made crap from a company that couldnt care less about the working conditions in the plants that make it. I think it comes down to people being attracted to pretty toys.. for example: I am sure most of you have seen mini stereo systems with more pretty flashy lights than a night club. The sound and build quality are sh*t but that doesnt seem to matter as long as it looks pretty.

Whats with the attitude that so many apple product owners seem to be "evangelists" constantly defending apple products while saying everything else has no merit at all. It has even happened to a family member of mine, she goes on and on about how good her iphone is while poopooing everything else. She has never even seen an Android based device and flatly refuses to even look at one or anything else that isnt branded apple.

Don't even get my started about apples attitude towards the people who buy their products... i.e. If theres a problem, then its always the users fault. What complete BS.

I will admit that I have looked at both Android and apple phones but have not bought either. My nokia n900 will do just fine for the forseeable future. The n900 is probably the most open platform on a phone ever, I can decide what to install on it. Why have a bloo*dy apple product that you have to jailbrake just to get more functionality from it.

There are some nice things about some apple products, in fact good enough to compete on their own merits. Enough of the lawsuits over absolute petty rubbish.

Apple pull your blo*dy socks up and earn the respect instead of being a bunch of higher than thou bullies.

Since apple has so much money, are they doing anything to help the less fortunate people of the world???? As far as I have seen the answer is no. Imagine how much could be done to help the starving and homless with even 1% of profits???

Rant over.. (i hear you all say PHEW!) btw, grammar and spelling police can P*ss off. I am trying to make a point, not write an essay.
 

del35

Distinguished
May 22, 2009
964
0
18,980
...Do you own a PC? Or any other modern technology? where do you think the parts inside your fancy PC or devices came from?

At least those companies are charging more reasonable prices for the stuff they sell. Given the premiums that iCrap charges for its inferior products, if paid proportionally to that premium, then those factory workers working for Apple should make at least 30% more for the same work they perform. What Apple does is that it defrauds Foxcom's workers and the Zombies that purchase their products.

So utterly bad is the situation with Apple's defrauding of parties doing business with it, that Sprint after adopting and having sold the most iPhones 4s than any other phone, could not even pull a profitable last quarter. Why? Because the iPhone 4s is more expensive for Sprint to purchase than other phones. The tragedy of the matter is that as far as components go the iPhone is an inferior product that costs much less to manufacture...

***


Article on how Apple screws wireless carriers: http://fwd4.me/0tQp

Article's synopsis:

"The iPhone has become the single most popular smartphone in the U.S., and that has left the carriers trapped in a kind of Faustian deal: The more iPhones they sell, the more money they lose."

***
The iPhone is a platform that Apple uses to further defraud its customers with nearly incessant additional fees. Just remember that Apple is profiting from every song it sells through the iTunes jail; add to that the commission it makes on apps sold in its apps store... You get the picture. Apple is rigged to steal from its faithful Zombies at every turn.
 

ap3x

Distinguished
May 17, 2009
596
0
18,980
blazorthon, Great Post!! didn't want to quote it because it in combination with mine would be extremely long.


Thanks for being specific about some of your issues and definitely a great post that speaks to the pros and cons that you experienced on both platforms.

"The Mac also has substantially more wireless LAN connectivity problems"

1: OSX does do a better job handling processes and multiple threads. When you have a number of things opens whether it is tabs in a browser or multiple processes it seems to handle it much better than windows. Windows 7 has come a long way in that regard but OSX seems to still have the edge in that area. Your mention on moving to a Windows server 2008platform makes allot of sense being that Server platforms handle multiple processes better than their workstation counterparts.

2: Agree 100% on the wireless issue. This was predominantly an issue on the older MBP's. It seems they have since done a better job with it. They did used a solid chipset for it however. They use the Astheros chips for their wireless which is really solid especially if you are doing wireless pen testing. Problem is that they seem to have turned down the power a bit so the range is not as good as some of the PC counterparts or if you use a 3rd part USB wireless adapter. Having said all that, they have since corrected those issues. I personally experience issues with performance and range. Never had stability issues. Also, a cool feature that goes unnoticed most of the time is that they actually provide sub-software firmware updates to the various components in their computers through the same mechanism that updates the software itself that is then applied after reboot. This allows them to deploy fixes that have to be at a firmware level to various components to resolve issues or make improvements without having to go through any special processes. Not talking about a BIOS update, Im talking about a device firmware update.

3: Mac's rarely have to be serviced and it looks like you have noticed that based on your post however service ability is a valid argument. It does not imply lesser quality, it is more of a preference for people who like to do their own repairs if they can. Part of this issues is the way the body is constructed. Mac's have been using a solid aluminum body construction for some time now and before then when you could remove the battery you just had to pop the keyboard to get to the inside. In fact, keyboard along with the plate around the keyboard comes off and you then have access to just about everything. Is it a little more difficult to get off, yea. But as with with any laptop to only two upgrade options are memory and hard disk and if you want to upgrade your DVD to a Blueray drive that is there as well. That is about it. Memory is usually the easiest upgrade on any laptop and the same holds true for MacBooks Pros. Unless you have a mobile gaming machine where you can upgrade the mobile video card there is not much else to upgrade. If you are used to servicing a Mac is a easy process for you but if you are used to servicing other machines you may be turned off a bit at the way you have to service a Mac. It is a bit different but that seems to be a trade off when using the aluminum uni-body construction that they use.

4: Stability. OSX is a combination of FreeBSD and NetBSD with the Mach kernel. I do not think anyone can argue that BSD is a stable and powerful platform. You mentioned that once you got Windows Server 2008 on your laptop it was as stable as your Macbook Pro. That sounds about right.

5: Screen real estate: You do know that the bottom bar can be moved, made smaller or completely hidden correct? It is right there in the control panel.

6: NTFS support: This is a Windows proprietary file system but it is Read/Write capability is built into OSX natively just not enabled by default. Not normally an issue for most people but if you want to enable it click the link below. It is very easy to find in google as well.

http://hints.macworld.com/article.php?story=20090913140023382

7: Yes the Keyboard is different and the backspace does not work like the delete key. Just a different style than your traditional windows keyboard and does take some getting use to. I too prefer to have a delete button available although you can also just drag the file or right click on a file and send to recycle bin. It bothered me at first but I just adjusted to it.

8: Mouse: Hit the CTRL button and then click to get the same as the right click if you are just using the built in pad. Personally, does not matter what computer I buy or build I always have a high quality mouse. Laptops as well. Again, this is a preference and has nothing to do with quality. Also with regard to the wheel. Not sure what you are referring to there. On my Windows machine with 3 separate browsers when I click the wheel I get a scroll lock. Is yours opening new tabs? If it is different and you have found that there is no way to change it to what your used to then again this is just a preference because you are used to doing things the way Windows does it. Not a quality issue, just works different.

9: I believe the Start menu by default works better than the Dock, No question there. However, that all changes if you use Stacks which is native in OSX. Drag your applications folder to your dock and you can then right click on that folder to change how you want it to show. This can also be used with your documents or any other folder. Works great and will provide some comfort if you like the way the Windows start menu works.

There are a number of ways to customize the desktop in Windows. If you like to do that kind of thing then Windows is for you. personally I don't like to do that short of changing a theme or a background every now and then but that is how I use my systems if you require that then Windows is for you.

By you despising having a Mac Desktop are you talking about the IMac or the Mac Pro? Mac Pro's have the same amount of room to add storage, video cards (although official driver support is getting better and they now support the HD7900 series), memory and the normal things that a desktop would have. the IMac is a bit different and should probably be compared to other machines in that class. Like the HP Omni Series for example. If you don't like All in One's and want a Mac then the Mac Pro would be for you. It is however a Workstation class machine. Apple does not make a non professional class Mini tower so it is very difficult to compare to something you or I would normally build.

In terms of performance with the same hardware, I agree that would be a problem but you indicated that you disabled some of the windows 7 key features like Aero because you prefer not to use it. There are ways on OSX to disable things to get a little extra snap as with Linux and any other OS. No question that Windows 7 freshly installed in snappy, a bit more snappy that OSX it seems. It does slow down after a while though. Also it hard to tell if OSX is just a bit less snappy or if the animated transitions create the illusion of less responsiveness in favor of effect. Hard to say.

In terms of security, as a security person myself I will say this. In it's default state Security, wise Windows is more secure than OSX. However OSX and any other Unix variant can be hardened to a much greater extent than any Windows machine. You can ask any security professional and they will validate this. Now here is where it gets tricky, the number of attacks, malicious applications, malware, spyware on Windows far exceeds that of OSX. There are 0 known self propagating Virus's on the OSX platform. Period... There are only a few self replicating Viruses on OSX along with very few Word Macro viruses. There are millions for Windows and 1,017,208 malware applications introduced to Windows just in 2010. The reason why this is is very simple. Larger install base, more attack vectors, better profitability for hackers. No way to dispute this. OSX is wayyyyyyyyy ahead of the Security curve just by virtue that there are already security applications available and ready to receive new signatures event though there is not allot of malicious code out there.....yet.

In all, thanks. great post based on your experiences but your preference towards Windows has allot to do with you just being more comfortable with Windows way of doing things and you did not know how to do or where to look to make OSX do the things you like to do in Windows. Does not make either better, just that you are move comfortable with one over the other and there is nothing wrong with that.

I will make a statement though. Having started my career in a manufacturer there is no situation in a consumer class machine where a ANY Manufacturer has better quality hardware than and custom built box or a box from one of the boutique builders unless the builder is using extremely poor judgement in hardware selection. Asus, Gigabyte, ASRock and other venders makes components to compete with other components and as such the best shows up in the technical reviews. Custom machines are a combination of highly analyzed individual components.

Where manufactures do have an advantage is in industrial design, and creating a package. Apple happens to be the best in that area. They think about the small things and that is what makes the difference. If you like Windows better than OSX but want the Apple hardware package then install Windows on it. If you want quality custom hardware and want OSX then build a Hackintosh. It is allot easier now since all the new boards have UEFI bioses now.

The whole IPhone vs Android argument is very different conversation and has been beaten to death. There are features on the IPhone that I personally use that is not on the Android at all and I am sure that Android has some great features that the IPhone does not have. Personally, I use my phone more for business use and for that reason the IPhone is a much better solution. If you don't believe me, talk to someone from Mobile Iron or another MDM company and ask them why. They will break it down for you. It has to do with standardization, security, and universal email functionality. In terms of media, easy enough to rip a movie to MP4 format and import into iTunes or if I want to play a number of different formats just use VLC on IOS. In terms of playing stuff on my TV from my phone well lets just say the ownage is not even funny there. I could elaborate but that is a long post in itself.

Some people value you utility, some people value aesthetics, some people want a combination of both. Personally as an engineer that really enjoys architecture I like a combination of both. I like thoughtfulness and Apple has done a good job there. The little stuff that would seem stupid until you experience it is something they excel at. There is a reason why a number of manufactures are taking ques from them. They also make interesting trade offs that piss some people off and others not so much. Like the unibody design or not having a removable battery. They made that decision because if provided both aesthetic and technical advantages along with the fact that it made the laptop lighter. There are things they do well and things not so well but there is no questions that they have by and large made allot of really good decisions and that is why they are successful. I personal like it when people take the time to sit down and thing about how people use their computers.

No company can make something for everybody, they just try to get as close as they can.

 
@ap3x I'll admit that some of my problems with using a Mac are simply because I'm more comfortable with Windows, but that still leaves the problem of prices. I can say that I'd never buy a Mac simply because they are more expensive than superior alternatives by a wide margin. If I wanted to use OSX then I'd make a Hackintosh, but Apple hardware is not worth the price premium.

There's no question that Apple products aren't garbage, they have their aesthetics and such and that can matter to people. Like most people, I too would like a combination of functionality and aesthetics, but if I have to choose between the two then I want functionality. Even when Apple has both, the prices tend to render most advantages insignificant. Apple iphones can be more expensive than Androids that have more RAM, more CPU power, and 4G support. I admit that since I don't have an iphone to play with I can't truthfully compare them to Android phones besides the price, but I'm not sure if Apple has GBA emulators or if there are Apple apps for Yahoo and Gmail, I use them both several times a day.

Do any of Apple's phones have dual core 1.2GHz or better processors? Do they have 768MB or 1GB or even more RAM? I can't complain about storage because they probably have adequate storage, but the faster CPUs and increased RAM of the Androids really helps. For example, if I try one of the GB DS emulators, I may need they extra CPU power. If I do any virtual machine work with a different OS like Ubuntu the superior hardware will definitely show it's advantages.

To be honest, androids don't look bad, their aesthetics are also good. My Windows laptop doesn't look like a piece of junk, I actually like it's look better than my Mac book. It is a Gateway M-1624 and it's the only laptop I have that I can open the lid with only one hand and I really like that. It has a nice gray/black chassis and I can't complain about it. It's very easy to clean and even if you don't clean it, you still can't see any problems unless it gets very dirty. You can't see finger prints or other grease stains at all and scratches also don't show up. The same can not be said for the Mac.

The only problem I have with my laptop is that it's CPU heat sink needs to be cleaned a few times a year or it won't run cool enough because it gets clogged with dust. My Windows laptop only costs a third of the price of the Mac and overall, I'm more pleased with it. It even has three USB ports, an SD card reader, an HDMI out, and the head phone/microphone jacks are in the front, arguably more convenient than having them on the side.

The Mac book only has 2 USB ports, no HDMI, and no SD card slot. That matters when I want to charge my phone while a USB flash drive and a mouse are all plugged in. These problems are mostly hardware and my own needs, not simply being comfortable with a different OS. The PC is still cheaper too. Apple's products are priced 3 to four times higher than what I'm willing to pay for. A new windows laptop similar to mine would cost between $200 and $250 while even my older Mac would probably go for over $600 and that's not excusable.
 

freggo

Distinguished
Nov 22, 2008
2,019
0
19,780
[citation][nom]eddieroolz[/nom]All love and hate aside, I wonder what causes Apple shares to soar for no apparent reason? Have they announced something new? I'm confused.[/citation]

Wallstreet's version of high stakes gambling...
 

xjchcxx

Distinguished
Aug 10, 2010
26
0
18,530
[citation][nom]beardguy[/nom]You have to give Apple some credit. The company was on the brink of total failure and it made a come back with the iPod. Microsoft has been behind the times for awhile. While they still produce some nice products (Windows 7) they have been losing steam for a long time. Remember when Microsoft was on top of the world? everyone hated them. I think the same will happen to Apple. In fact, it's already starting to happen to Google. Competition is a good thing, and Apple is forcing Microsoft ( and lots of other companies) to reinvent themselves in order to compete. The only Apple product I own is an Iphone, but I realize they have created some great products. Yes they are overpriced as hell, but people would not buy them if they were shit. I have always hated the lock-down mentality of their products, but from an aesthetics and UI perspective, they simply make some amazing products.[/citation]

well put
 

xjchcxx

Distinguished
Aug 10, 2010
26
0
18,530
You guys ranting about Foxconn know that Apple does not own Foxconn right? Apple is a client of Foxconn using the the world's largest supplier of PCBs and electronic components. What apple can do, should do as an ethical company, is take their business elsewhere; however, i feel that Microsoft, Google, and Apple would all act the same in this case – use their influence, their business to affect change in their supplier.

Did a quick search and found some other people taking advantage of the conditions at Foxconn: Amazon - Kindle, Microsoft - Xbox360, Sony - PS3, so you Microsoft groupies should stand aside, you Google fans can continue to complain if you must.

I think what we're really seeing is peoples fear of change. I learned how to type on a Mac2 or something like that (it was roughly the size of a facial tissue box) and then bought a Packard Bell PC and didn't touch a Mac again until 2005... I was intimidated at first, learning something totally new, but today in 2012 i spend 8hrs a day professionally on a Mac, go home and use a PC to play games with friends and what not. So in my opinion which is better? Both. There are things i like about Windows that aren't in OSX, and there are things in OSX i like that are not in Windows. Advertisers tell you one is better than the other to get you to spend money, in reality they're both essentially equal – unless you're discussing a specific area such as graphic design, or gaming.

There's my opinion for ya.. I'm happy Apple is doing well, I'm happy Google is doing well.. Microsoft is still doing fine, but they've been better.. ( i hate how MS charges people to play games with friends online (Xbox Live Gold subscription), while no one else does... what's up with that?) That aside, I love my xbox, the controller is amazing, award-winning and i hope they change it very little for the next xbox :)
 

xjchcxx

Distinguished
Aug 10, 2010
26
0
18,530
[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]@ap3x I'll admit that some of my problems with using a Mac are simply because I'm more comfortable with Windows, but that still leaves the problem of prices. I can say that I'd never buy a Mac simply because they are more expensive than superior alternatives by a wide margin. If I wanted to use OSX then I'd make a Hackintosh, but Apple hardware is not worth the price premium.There's no question that Apple products aren't garbage, they have their aesthetics and such and that can matter to people. Like most people, I too would like a combination of functionality and aesthetics, but if I have to choose between the two then I want functionality. Even when Apple has both, the prices tend to render most advantages insignificant. Apple iphones can be more expensive than Androids that have more RAM, more CPU power, and 4G support. I admit that since I don't have an iphone to play with I can't truthfully compare them to Android phones besides the price, but I'm not sure if Apple has GBA emulators or if there are Apple apps for Yahoo and Gmail, I use them both several times a day.Do any of Apple's phones have dual core 1.2GHz or better processors? Do they have 768MB or 1GB or even more RAM? I can't complain about storage because they probably have adequate storage, but the faster CPUs and increased RAM of the Androids really helps. For example, if I try one of the GB DS emulators, I may need they extra CPU power. If I do any virtual machine work with a different OS like Ubuntu the superior hardware will definitely show it's advantages.To be honest, androids don't look bad, their aesthetics are also good. My Windows laptop doesn't look like a piece of junk, I actually like it's look better than my Mac book. It is a Gateway M-1624 and it's the only laptop I have that I can open the lid with only one hand and I really like that. It has a nice gray/black chassis and I can't complain about it. It's very easy to clean and even if you don't clean it, you still can't see any problems unless it gets very dirty. You can't see finger prints or other grease stains at all and scratches also don't show up. The same can not be said for the Mac.The only problem I have with my laptop is that it's CPU heat sink needs to be cleaned a few times a year or it won't run cool enough because it gets clogged with dust. My Windows laptop only costs a third of the price of the Mac and overall, I'm more pleased with it. It even has three USB ports, an SD card reader, an HDMI out, and the head phone/microphone jacks are in the front, arguably more convenient than having them on the side.The Mac book only has 2 USB ports, no HDMI, and no SD card slot. That matters when I want to charge my phone while a USB flash drive and a mouse are all plugged in. These problems are mostly hardware and my own needs, not simply being comfortable with a different OS. The PC is still cheaper too. Apple's products are priced 3 to four times higher than what I'm willing to pay for. A new windows laptop similar to mine would cost between $200 and $250 while even my older Mac would probably go for over $600 and that's not excusable.[/citation]

I agree with you about the pricing, it's always been a hurdle for people wanting to own a Mac.

The lack of HDMI, USB ports and other IO interfaces you mentioned was a design decision made by Apple. Bill Gates said of Steve Jobs' something to the point of his superior design skills, which this is an exemplum of – most people don't need more than 2 USB ports, or a serial port, or an HDMI out.. so they provide what you'd need to have those accessible (miniDVI, etc) and keep the computer itself as sleek and designerly as possible.

Hardware though, you'd have to do more than a baseline comparison. If i got to Best Buy and get the cheapest Mac and the cheapest PC, there's going to be at least a $600 difference in price; however, there's going to be a massive difference in quality. Apple does not create cheap or sub-par devices. PC manufacturers do– i owned an E-Machine once, that was a big mistake... i kept the computer for 4 years, by the end of it, the only part i had not replaced was the motherboard– literally everything else failed. I kid you not.. i got rid of the computer when the motherboard died.. lol

I was hoping to get a new gaming PC (still haven't), i7 processor, SSD, the works... Went to Newegg, put the i7, motherboard, all the components in the cart.. had a stellar computer that would rival the 27" iMac that cost $3000 (with an i7, SSD, and 2GB gfx card).. PC cost: $3600. quality is the difference in a computer's cost.

If you just need to check email and facebook, get a PC.. heck, get a smart phone... the price difference in a Mac is justified considering the quality of the hardware, but it's not for everyone..


[i've owned 2 mac laptops. Both i've pushed far beyond their limits as far as computing and graphical demands; however, the only thing i've replaced on either and both, is the cooling fans, simple fix. This was after about 3 years of usage.. Similarly, after four years i had a battery die, but that's expected.

I've owned, and built countless PC computers, i repair Mac, PC, iPods, and iPhones, pretty much anything that breaks.. so i have an intimate knowledge of both :) ]
 

tmshdw

Distinguished
Aug 29, 2011
171
0
18,680
[citation][nom]alidan[/nom]wow... all apple makes is a phone and a tablet right? their pc department is so pathetic it almost went out of existence at one point... right... o yea they are technically a game publisher, and music distrubiter and make 30 cents a song about... yea, i can see apple being woth that much considering why many devices are out there and they all make proffit, and they sell music an that makes more profit, and all that other crap.[/citation]
Hmmm... Way to miss the point and state the obvious and remain oblivious. Congrats....
 


I have to say that I also own an eMachines desktop and although it isn't very fast (It has a Pentium dual-core @2.00GHz, 2GB DDR2 667, and the integrated Intel GMA 950 graphics and runs Vista), it has never had a failed component. My PC laptop is from early or mid 2008 and it also has never had a failed component. My old Dell P4 desktop from early 2004 was up and running without failed component until I gutted it last year to build a better Pentium D desktop also made with some components from a Compaq.

Some PCs are crap, some are not. You can get very good PCs cheaper than similar quality Macs. However, I have never bought a pre-built computer, I have been given them by friends and family. Apple may have decided that a third USB port, an HDMI port, and an SD card slot were unnecessary, but I use them so I don't think I'm part of their target audience. Overall, I feel like Apple just doesn't trust their customers. Apple uses idiot resistant cases, keyboards/mouses with fewer buttons, inferior connectivity, and I can understand Apple wanting to reduce the amount of customer service calls from people who broke their computer, but I can't buy a Mac that doesn't do everything I need a computer to do and I can't afford a Mac that can do everything, especially when there are significantly cheaper PCs. Apple has huge prices that undoubtedly make the computer illiterate think that Apple products must be great if they're so expensive and there's no denying that a pretty large amount of Apple's customers are the computer illiterate.

You need to look into a PC before buying it to make sure it isn't crap. I suppose that's one advantage that Apple has, you're almost guaranteed that it won't break down on you any time soon with Apple. However, researching a possible purchase is a price I'm much more willing to pay rather than pay a greater price in cash.

I really don't understand the appeal. Apple products certainly aren't crap, but they aren't better than cheaper PCs. They're either as good as or worse than a cheaper PC. I like the gray/black look of my Windows laptop better than the smooth white that Apple seems to prefer and I just can't switch over to a computer company that doesn't suit my needs as a relatively heavy user at a decent price.

Yes, the difference in price between the cheapest PC and the cheapest Mac would be huge, but the cheapest PC might not be one worth having. You can get great PCs cheaply. Acer had a laptop that went for under $450 and had an i3, 6GB of RAM, a 500GB HDD, and an okay video card (hey, it was better than integrated) last I checked right on their website. That was a few months ago and I would have like to grab it if my current laptop failed, but so far it is still going without a problem.
 

happyballz

Distinguished
Mar 15, 2011
269
0
18,780
Way overinflated stock, along with a handful of other major tech companies. They all will crash sooner or later. Not a good long-term investment IMO.
 

ap3x

Distinguished
May 17, 2009
596
0
18,980
[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom][/citation]

So first you talked about price. I want to debunk this myth that Apple stuff is so much more expensive. Are they more expensive, yea a little bit but you are getting something for that additional expense it is just that most people who come to this site don't see value for that something. The reality is for Apple this myth is a bi product of the way their business works. You don't have to agree with it but it is also one of the reasons why they are so successful.

So what is it, if you look at Apple hardware you notice that the price does not change with the exception of the iPhones and iPads. The iPhones and iPads only change when a new model comes out. The computer business is constantly releasing new hardware or variants of the same so hardware that is purchased 1 day is then outperformed by hardware that comes out 3-6 months later. If you have a product cycle of 12 months then in 3-6 months when pricing and performance shifts the bang for your buck decreases. So if you look at Apple hardware in the first few months of release every manufacturers releases are within a couple hundred bucks of each other. That is not bad. Same thing applies to Game consoles for example. They actually lose money for the first few years and the as the price of the components goes down they start to make up the difference. I think it is safe to say that all of us have made a purchase and spent what we thought was a pretty penny only to have the price go down 1-3 months later because something newer and cooler came out. Apple gets nailed with this stuff because of them not changing their prices. So basically, it depends on when you buy the product.
As far as the IPhone since you like the GBA here is the link http://www.iphoneemulator.com/
and you also mentioned Yahoo and Gmail. No app needed, built natively into the mail application along with calendar and contact syncing. Also Exchange and Lotus Notes is supported natively as well. Android does not support Lotus Notes but does support Exchange.

In regards to Phone hardware. This industry plays leap frog constantly. The purpose of hardware is to what............... run software. If your software is designed to be extremely efficient (and IOS is extremely efficient) and run like silk on certain hardware they you design the phone that way. Phones are not general computing devices; no one uses them when they are plugged into the wall. They have some serious power restrictions so from a hardware standpoint “less is more” if you like your battery life. No one is doing benchmarks on their phones and comparing phone bench scores with each other like we do on computers. It is just a different type of device. You design the phone to provide a high level of functionality with minimal power requirements. As hardware progresses, die shrinks for example allow you can put more hardware (in this case CPU cores) with a smaller power and heat footprint.

You mentioned Virtual machine work.......on a phone? That would suck terribly to try and work VM's on a phone, how about just using a SSH client to connect to an ESXi Linux instance so the VM could actually do something useful. VMware gives ESXI away for free and it is freaken AWESOME!!! Here is the link. http://www.vmware.com/products/vsphere/esxi-and-esx/overview.html
Hardware wise, the 4s has a dual core 1Ghz processor with a much faster GPU than the competition. It also supports up to 64Gb of storage which the Galaxy supports 16Gb. No 4g option but that was a tradeoff they decided to make due to size and power requirements with that generation of 4g hardware. Everyone I know turns of 4g to conserve battery life and turns it on when they need to. Apple felt that it was a good decision because 4g's coverage at the time was extremely limited. Now it is much better so the next device will have it. Simple as that, not sure why people make a big deal out of something with limited coverage and wipes your battery out. IPhone 4s has almost 3 times the talk time of the Samsung Galaxy S II. This is important for people like me who lives on his phone because of work.

The Android phones are good looking phones, no one can deny that. IPhones are a bit better from a aesthetic perspective but the Samsung's are very nice. My issue is that the Samsung Phones feel flimsy compared to the IPhone. It is just not nearly as solid and ridged. Feeling is not something that is subjective. The sense of density is what it is.

Looks are subjective so there is no need to argue that and your point about finger prints is understandable if you have oily skin or something like that. I can see where that would be a point of concern. Not everyone has those problems and I have certainly never had those problems save for touching my monitor or something. This more applies to laptops more than computers though.
As far as your laptop is concerned you seem to value having a number of USB ports. That is fine, personally I use at the most 3 at any given time on my laptop. 1 for a mouse, 1 for a mass storage device if needed, 1 for whatever else I might need to plug in. Your Mac should have 2 on right side and 1 on the left if I remember correctly. As far as HDMI, a feature that is cool but rarely used, you can make the argument of the value of that on a laptop. Leave out the hypotheticals and think about actual usability. SDCard, I have to admit I would like a universal card reader as well but this is not that big of a deal since it is rarely used and can be achieved via a USB device. Take a Camera with videos and pictures on the SD card. You can either take the card out of the camera to put into your computer or you can just plug the camera into your computer via USB. Not that big of a deal. As far as the headphone jacks, never really thought about the placement but I understand what you’re saying. Isn’t that a little nitpicky though?

As far as the dust, maybe the problem is the dust and not the laptop. Not insinuating anything, just saying I have never once had that problem with any hardware other than my mini tower sitting below my desk.

Lastly, as far as value. This has to be the first time I have heard someone complain about the used price of a laptop. Half full/half empty argument I guess. Where you are see cost of a use MBP being $600 I am seeing that the Mac has held its value much better. Isn’t it better to know that you have something that you can sell and get a decent amount for it? Doesn’t that make buying new hardware easier? Slower depreciation is an extremely valuable thing in my view. I personally hate buying stuff where when I want to upgrade and sell my old stuff that I paid my hard earned money for go for virtually nothing. If I can get a little something back to use towards my next purchase that would be great. I am sure you would agree if you looked at it that way.

We can talk hardware until we are blue in the face and we all know the value of reviewing and individually selecting components that will give either the best performance or the best bang for the buck. You build it, You support it, You replace hardware and have to deal the the support of each of these individual components. You want to send your hardware back because it is not what you expected you are in most cases slapped with a nice restocking fee and then there is some hardware that you can not even send back as well. If you are fine with all that then great!! Most people, including people that have been building for a long time are either not interested or don't have the time for all that. What Apple is providing is something very different, they are providing a full life cycle solution. Solid product, Solid Construction, Extremely Solid support, Solid training, a place to buy, store and organize content and the option to use something else if you want to, and tons of complementary devices that integrate smoothly into everything. No issues with virus's, no issues with multitasking, no issues with recovering from hibernation, no issues with stability. They provide 98% of what most people want and they do it in a package that does not make your office look like a lab. This is why they are successful. They are not going to be all things to all people and we can pick everything apart and put "what if's" until the cows come home. At the end of the day, unless the other PC manufactures step up, Apple is going to continue gaining market share. Period.

Another great post though! Always nice to have a good intelligent discussion other people that enjoy tech without the gang member mentalities that seems to plague this site.
 

ap3x

Distinguished
May 17, 2009
596
0
18,980
[citation][nom]tmshdw[/nom]Hmmm... Way to miss the point and state the obvious and remain oblivious. Congrats....[/citation]

I have to agree, that was a strange post. Also, Apple makes very little money from ITunes. It was always there to push their hardware.
 

tomaz99

Distinguished
Jan 28, 2010
98
0
18,630
I'm happy for them.

I can't stand any Apple products...nothing works for me. I can't even figure out how to pause Podcasts (hate iTunes...). I can pause everything else in the entire world...without downloading additional apps, hacks, mods...
 

ap3x

Distinguished
May 17, 2009
596
0
18,980
[citation][nom]tomaz99[/nom]I'm happy for them.I can't stand any Apple products...nothing works for me. I can't even figure out how to pause Podcasts (hate iTunes...). I can pause everything else in the entire world...without downloading additional apps, hacks, mods...[/citation]

I hope your not serious? Ever tried hitting the button at the top of ITunes that look like II? Not exactly hidden in the application, in fact it is the same button as the play button. When you hit play the button turns into a pause button.
 

tomaz99

Distinguished
Jan 28, 2010
98
0
18,630
[citation][nom]hotsacoman[/nom]That's awesome!!! Now pay your factory workers you assholes.[/citation]

Why?

You pay them.

A maintenance guy just walked by my office...you can pay him too if his salary is too low.
 

ap3x

Distinguished
May 17, 2009
596
0
18,980
Oh on the Foxconn thing. Below is a list of their customers according to Wikipedia. Funny how Apple is taking all the heat as well as the responsibility for the rest of the industry.


Foxconn manufactures products for companies including:
(country of headquarters in parentheses)
Acer Inc. (Taiwan)[28]
Amazon.com (United States)[29]
Apple Inc. (United States)[30]
ASRock (Taiwan)[citation needed]
Asus (Taiwan)[citation needed]
Barnes & Noble (United States)[citation needed]
Cisco (United States)[31]
Dell (United States)[32]
EVGA Corporation (United States)
Gateway (United States)[33]
Hewlett-Packard (United States)[34]
Intel (United States)[35]
IBM (United States)[citation needed]
Lenovo (China)[citation needed]
Microsoft (United States)[36]
MSI (Taiwan)[citation needed]
Motorola (United States)[32]
Netgear (United States)[citation needed]
Nintendo (Japan)[37]
Nokia (Finland)[30]
Panasonic (Japan)[citation needed]
Samsung (South Korea)[38]
Sharp (Japan)[citation needed]
Sony (Japan)[39]
Sony Ericsson (Japan/Sweden)[40]
Toshiba (Japan) [41]
Vizio (United States)[42]
 

tomaz99

Distinguished
Jan 28, 2010
98
0
18,630
[citation][nom]ap3x[/nom]I hope your not serious? Ever tried hitting the button at the top of ITunes that look like II? Not exactly hidden in the application, in fact it is the same button as the play button. When you hit play the button turns into a pause button.[/citation]

heh...well my iTunes, which I just updated because I didn't start it for over a year, has a square block when I play not a "II" pause; I know this square block means stop because of all the mixed tapes I made in the 80's :)
 
@ap3x

My Mac has 2 USB ports on the left, only those two. That's why it is a problem, I use three, at a minimum most of the time. I wasn't comparing used prices on my PC, I meant a similarly performing new one. PCs can be had a lot cheaper than similar Macs, the difference isn't small.

I agree that aesthetic appeal is in the eyes of the beholder, some might prefer the Mac, some such as me do not. The Mac is not displeasing, but I like my PC laptop more. I don't use the HDMI port too often so I see your point there, but it does get used. The SD card slot is used at least weekly, but I have other people that need it. I don't use it too often and could get by with an adapter. However, it is more convenient and the card fits almost 100% into the laptop so it doesn't hang out and that's a plus when it can get hit by someone or something.

I didn't know the iphone 4s had a dual core 1GHz processor. I assumed it had a single core so my bad there. I have to say that my android is not light and is very sturdy. I have slammed it and thrown it before (not that I recommend this, don't do that) when I'm annoyed with something. It's generally not the phones fault. It is no worse off and has no scratches no matter what it's been through. At least unlike some people, I don't drop it.

Maybe some of the newer androids are more flimsy, I don't know. I can say that mine is not and it is not light either. It's not heavy, but you can feel it's weight. I never had the dust problem with my desktops or my other laptops and it's just my Windows laptop. I think it was a recurring problem with the my model and similar models, I might yell at Gateway some time. A lot of dust get's caught in the CPU heat sink and needs to be cleaned out a few times a year, I usually do it once every 2 to 6 months. So long as I keep it clean the laptop runs cool. It starts to heat up if I let it get too dirty.

To be honest, I have seen many benchmarks done on phones. I occasionally look into them myself because I'd like to find out what my next phone would be and overall, I like to look into current technology. However, I don't look into smart phones in such depth too often whereas I look into computer technology daily. Have a look at Intel's Medfield. It's a very promising smart phone and tablet processor, although it currently has pretty poor graphics. It's currently a single core x86 chip that manages to fight with the top dual core ARM CPUs.

It is true that the Macs depreciate in value more slowly than PCs, but the PC starts off cheaper and gets even cheaper throughout it's life span and that's not something to ignore. Mac's are relatively expensive throughout most of their life spans. When my 2007 Mac book can go for hundreds of dollars yet has lower performance than $300 and $400 laptops that are out today, well I see a problem for buyers. This helps sellers of used Apple hardware, but not the buyers. A new Mac with a Sandy Bridge processor will cost several hundred dollars more than a PC equivalent and that's an easy fact to demonstrate, go to apple.com or newegg.com to look at the new models. The used Macs aren't much cheaper either, although used PCs are more affordable.

I didn't mean to complain about the used price of a laptop, but that does bring up a point too. A laptop such as mine that is similar or better performing than the Mac and costs a fraction of it's price has much more value, used or new, if you ask me. I forgot to mention this, but my laptop also has Ati graphics, a Radeon X1270. I've been told that the X1270s is about as fast as a Radeon 9600, so a little behind the HD 2000 graphics. A lot better than the GMA 950 from the Macbook even if it still isn't very good. I hae played some older games like Unreal Tournament 2004 and C&C Red Alert 3 on my laptop without a problem at higher resolutions and quality settings than my desktop that has the same GMA 950 integrated graphics as the Mac. I was also mistaken about the Macbook's CPU, it's actually running at 2.40GHz, not 2.00GHz.

I still don't think the Macbook is junk, it does what it does decently, but for it's price it is no match for many PC laptops. My cheaper PC laptop is as good as or even running circles around it, depending on the work being done. My PC laptop has one more USB port and is much better for it's value and is better overall. I'll use a Mac that I'm given for free, but new or used one is simply out of the question. If I could afford a Mac then I'd get an awesome PC instead.

Other things to consider, I could get a PC with some parts at the minimum and save more money by buying them directly, especially memory, CPUs, and graphics cards. I've upgraded a laptop's CPU before and was pleased with the result. I can also buy a bare bones laptop and build my own even cheaper, but that's not a good comparison if this was for novice computer users and more work than most people getting a laptop are willing to do.

Thanks for some good conversation, I'm not used to this good of a chat here on Tom's.
 

ap3x

Distinguished
May 17, 2009
596
0
18,980



Agreed, great conversation. Thanks for being honest about your experiences. There is allot of misinformation out there and I hope with some of the stuff we talked about that you can now do some of the things you wanted to do on your Mac. Take care bro and thanks again.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.

TRENDING THREADS