Asus 295 GTX "No Longer Available"

[JackNaylorPE]

Checked my wish list today and noticed that newegg has discontinued carrying the 295GTX saying that the product is "no longer available". Newegg know something we don't know ?

Seems odd that newegg would discontinue carrying a current major product. The $499 price will probbaly be hard to match, best I have seen elsewhere is $533.

 

[The_Blood_Raven]

I guess it depends on what your goals are. I am not interested in having the highest frame rates posted in my forum signature; I am interested in "immersion" . Pre-scripted animations get old real fast. A devastating weapon leaves little more than a scuff on the flimsyest of surfaces. Every enemy you kill, drops in exactly the same way. There is a total absence of realism in most game experiences which PhysX does a lot to eliminate. With PhysX, walls can be torn down, glass can be shattered into hundreds of pieces, trees and branches bend in the wind like "in real life" obeying the laws of physics, cloth tears. When things blow up, the motions of object actually have trajectories and respond to collisions according to physics.

PhysX DOES NOT DO THIS. PHYSICS does. Yes we need a higher physics standard in gaming, like Crysis with flora moving around you as you move through it, but that is physics. PhysX allows the GPU to render physics so that the CPU is not as burdened. This is the same as Havoc. Both will be obsolete soon since every card will have a STANDARD version and so game developers wont have to worry about 3rd party standards that will alienate a large portion of their consumer base.

This I understand, many people have been confused about this. I can't blame you for it because the marketing is pretty shady here.

As for the rest of it, I have given you plenty of facts and reasons. I never expected you to listen to logic, but I have educated anyone who may have been tricked by your false information and your clearly illogical point of view. That is all I needed to do, now enjoy your GTX 295 and I hope think that you made a smart buy in your own little fairy tale world.

 

[The_Blood_Raven]

Let's do a real cost comparision:

System cost w/ 5870 = $ 2,390 w/ a card I can't actually buy as yet
System Cost w/ 295 GTX = $ 2,510 for card in stock

Total system cost difference 5%

Yes, it runs marginally hotter, uses more power and is somewhat louder but again, why weren't those factors when comparing the 295 GTX and the 4870 x2 ????? When that was the playing field, those things didn't matter, now all of a sudden it's a major issues. With the 4870, it ran 27 degrees hotter and that wasn't a problem for ATI fans, now with a teeny temp advantage ....ooh it's major.

I'm not saying the temp isn't an issue for me.....just not enough to give up the speed advantage ... my beef is the flip flop among the ATI fundamentalists.

Refer above for the temp. thing.

As for "can't actually buy yet"

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161301
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814127449
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5271080&CatId=3669
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5252754&CatId=3669
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5256799&CatId=3669
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=5256798&CatId=3669
http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B002PK14SU
http://www.ewiz.com/detail.php?name=XFX-58701G&src=FR&pid=a08a7ecd40f5b35cea42271fa5c0c7572a89cdf0ec7ed13c93719f8b9a2f29c1

And the list goes on...

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Im actually beginning to wonder after that last one, cant buy it yet?
Hmmmmm, and of all people, someone spouting about nVidias great, while saying you cant get new cards from ATI?
Are you kidding? Where the hell are the new cards from nVidia? The only pic weve seen is even fake, so you cant even own a pic of one.
Nice try , but the 295 is old, compared to whats out now, costs 120$ more and only performs somewhat better than a brand new card with new drivers.
Its hotter, useds more power, is louder, and frankly, I dont care if you want to pull in the 4870x2, as its EOL, as in, the NEW ATI cards have replaced them, so go getcha some

 

[FallenSniper]

Im actually beginning to wonder after that last one, cant buy it yet?
Hmmmmm, and of all people, someone spouting about nVidias great, while saying you cant get new cards from ATI?
Are you kidding? Where the hell are the new cards from nVidia? The only pic weve seen is even fake, so you cant even own a pic of one.
Nice try , but the 295 is old, compared to whats out now, costs 120$ more and only performs somewhat better than a brand new card with new drivers.
Its hotter, useds more power, is louder, and frankly, I dont care if you want to pull in the 4870x2, as its EOL, as in, the NEW ATI cards have replaced them, so go getcha some

JD has spoken.

/thread

 

[brockh]

This guy is funny. He is like "Hey guys, I don't want to sit here and post benchmarks about these minimal differences in cards, I am all about the real world experience that I see in my games!" -- and then he turns around is like guys "The GTX 295 has a 5% FPS edge over the 5870 at a $100 price premium; we all know that is completely rational!"

Lets say the 5870 runs whatever game at 50 FPS, the GTX 295 will run it at 52.5 FPS, and will probably have a lower minimum FPS which actually gives the "real world" experience to the 5870. Not to mention you're, once again, paying a huge premium. While your form is good, your actual logic is completely flawed and you don't know what you're even saying. :/

Also, the GTX 295 is not a single card GPU. It's two on a single board. Why are people acting like this is some type of accomplishment that it's still holding the "crown"? The 4870 X2 beats the GTX 295 in some games (regardless of all its other flaws which need not be mentioned), why would we not be waiting to compare the 5870 X2 to the GTX 295? Of course it's going to destroy it, the regular one is basically on par.

Ugh, fanboys. Whichever card is better, is better. You should always be looking for the best deal. Also, driver problems only get better on new cards and cost you no money nor headaches. Are you still using Windows XP too? Enjoy your display driver BSODs.

 

[EXT64]

Yeah, that is a major point here. People say "Buy NVidia for PhysX" and when we say its not worth it, we get accused of not wanting Physics Modeled in games. That is not true, as PhysX is merely one way to emulate real world Physics, and a closed platform one too. Furthermore, it is clear NVidia cares little about it by their recent moves. Restricting it only to their hardware and beyond by saying you can't even run it on an NVidia card if an ATI card is rendering graphics shows they relegated it firmly to the 'gimmick to sell NVidia cards' category, rather than gaining the inside edge on the platform they hope will dominate in the future. And sadly, because of this PhysX is killing the near term future of Physics in games by dividing up the industry rather than unifying it behind one open program that can run on all hardware by all customers.

 

[The_Blood_Raven]

This guy is funny. He is like "Hey guys, I don't want to sit here and post benchmarks about these minimal differences in cards, I am all about the real world experience that I see in my games!" -- and then he turns around is like guys "The GTX 295 has a 5% FPS edge over the 5870 at a $100 price premium; we all know that is completely rational!"

Lets say the 5870 runs whatever game at 50 FPS, the GTX 295 will run it at 52.5 FPS, and will probably have a lower minimum FPS which actually gives the "real world" experience to the 5870. Not to mention you're, once again, paying a huge premium. While your form is good, your actual logic is completely flawed and you don't know what you're even saying.

It's nice to see that I am not the only one that realizes the minimum framerate issue.

Yeah, that is a major point here. People say "Buy NVidia for PhysX" and when we say its not worth it, we get accused of not wanting Physics Modeled in games. That is not true, as PhysX is merely one way to emulate real world Physics, and a closed platform one too. Furthermore, it is clear NVidia cares little about it by their recent moves. Restricting it only to their hardware and beyond by saying you can't even run it on an NVidia card if an ATI card is rendering graphics shows they relegated it firmly to the 'gimmick to sell NVidia cards' category, rather than gaining the inside edge on the platform they hope will dominate in the future. And sadly, because of this PhysX is killing the near term future of Physics in games by dividing up the industry rather than unifying it behind one open program that can run on all hardware by all customers.

Ah the voices of reason!

 

[FallenSniper]

Everyone except for Jack is a voice of reason in this thread...just doesn't matter...

 

[JackNaylorPE]

PhysX DOES NOT DO THIS. PHYSICS does.

So the reviewer I posted is completely wrong ? The demos you can run on dozens of sites use some kind of hypnosis to make you believe you are seeing a difference ?

As for the rest of it, I have given you plenty of facts and reasons. I never expected you to listen to logic, but I have educated anyone who may have been tricked by your false information and your clearly illogical point of view. That is all I needed to do, now enjoy your GTX 295 and I hope think that you made a smart buy in your own little fairy tale world.

Your reasons are akin to the people who come to my door on Sundays handling out pamphlets and telling me I need to be "born again". You have not provided a single published link supporting any of them. Just promises .... yes most times drivers do improve performance ...well on benchmarks ..... mainly because they are optimized to do just that.....but there's also hardware improvements from Revision A to B to C that you refuse to recognize. When looking at any choice, there are pluses and minuses, you keep touting the pluses while refusing to acknowledge the existence of any minuses. Like someone who ran out and bought a 920 with C0 stepping and now pronounces that it is just as good as one with D0 stepping.

IMO, the 5870 is poorly positioned....twin 5850's makes much more sense than a 5870.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

As for "can't actually buy yet"

No doubt stores will be getting stock but at the time of my poosting, there were none in stock.

Again faith does not quite meet reality. yes the list does go on .... the list of inaccuarte information.

Of the 8 links, 5 of them say they don't have it. The others "say" they do but are brands I wouldn't use even if the site was correct. Called Tiger Direct to confirm stock on the 2 links that say they have it but TD is not open.

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Im actually beginning to wonder after that last one, cant buy it yet?
Hmmmmm, and of all people, someone spouting about nVidias great, while saying you cant get new cards from ATI?
Are you kidding? Where the hell are the new cards from nVidia? The only pic weve seen is even fake, so you cant even own a pic of one.
Nice try , but the 295 is old, compared to whats out now, costs 120$ more and only performs somewhat better than a brand new card with new drivers.
Its hotter, useds more power, is louder, and frankly, I dont care if you want to pull in the 4870x2, as its EOL, as in, the NEW ATI cards have replaced them, so go getcha some

I don't give a hoot about one brand name being great and the other stinky. It's all about 1) does it deliver the effects you want and 2) how fast does it do it. Who cares what's old and new, how does that affect anything ? How many are happy about owning a 920 that they ran out to buy when new and are now stuck w/ C0 stepping ????

The 295 delivers 5-10% more performance than a 5870 at a system cost increase of 5% .... that's not a bad deal.

If you are going to make an argument by brand, then the argument to make is twin 5850's over either a 295 or a 5870. That argument is quite valid and can be based upon actual numbers instead or ... will be's. If we are just talking benchmarks and value for a $500 budget (ok, $20 over), that's obviously a better choice then the 5870.

 

[FallenSniper]

I don't give a hoot about one brand name being great and the other stinky. It's all about 1) does it deliver the effects you want and 2) how fast does it do it. Who cares what's old and new, how does that affect anything ? How many are happy about owning a 920 that they ran out to buy when new and are now stuck w/ C0 stepping ????

The 295 delivers 5-10% more performance than a 5870 at a system cost increase of 5% .... that's not a bad deal.

If you are going to make an argument by brand, then the argument to make is twin 5850's over either a 295 or a 5870. That argument is quite valid and can be based upon actual numbers instead or ... will be's. If we are just talking benchmarks and value for a $500 budget (ok, $20 over), that's obviously a better choice then the 5870.

You are the king of contradicting yourself....

It looks to me like you say the 295 delivers 5-10% more performance than a 5870 (no doubt going by average frame rates, not minimums). Then instead of comparing the price of the 5870 and the price of the 295, you include both into the overall price of the system, and then do your price percentage with the whole system included. Really?

It doesn't matter if it's old or new. Even if the 5870 wasn't going to get better than it is now, it's still a better buy than the 295. You seem really obsessed with the 920 and the C0 stepping. I bet most people are actually pretty happy with their 920s. I'd even go as far to say most of them don't care because they are still have a 920.

I'm not really sure why you bring up how the 5850s would be better than the 295 or 5870. Sure they would, but guess what? Everything you complain about with the 5870 is true for the 5850. No PhysX, so you can cry about that one...and we will all probably laugh... It's still in the early revision as well yes? You might get stuck with revision A. Oh noes! Really though...you need to stop deflecting all the facts people are telling you and accept the fact that the 5870 is the better deal. I know it's hard for a die hard fanboy such as yourself...but please try.

😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

 

[JackNaylorPE]

Lets say the 5870 runs whatever game at 50 FPS, the GTX 295 will run it at .....

Again, why must we rely on "faith".....why can't "the faithful" ever post links supporting their arguments ? Sure the benchmarks will vary from game to game but unless you are only playing the games that your legion wins on, you have to take the entire average on all the games you are likely to play. Some are optimized for one brand, some for the other.

Ugh, fanboys. Whichever card is better, is better. You should always be looking for the best deal. Also, driver problems only get better on new cards and cost you no money nor headaches. Are you still using Windows XP too? Enjoy your display driver BSODs.

I am not the one telling other people what to buy or calling them fools because of their choices. Each person must make their individual choice based upon what is important to them. Arguing what you like best should be another person's choice and redefining the playing field with each change in circumstances to fit your argument is what I am objecting to.

For example, the ATI faithful has been expounding on the value of the 58xx series advantage in thermal performance....now here you are arguing the 4870x2 over the GTX295 ... excuse me ?

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews.php?reviewid=711&pageid=22

What, a 27 degree C temperature difference no longer matters again ???? Again, this is my objection .... flipity flop, flippity flop ......not which card anyone feels is better for their individual usage.

Not to mention you're, once again, paying a huge premium.

Again, stop trying to rearrange the playing field to fit your argument. We don't play games on a video card; we play them on PC's. If you want to talk "value" the entire system benefits from the card so "system cost" must be used not card cost. By your logic, how could anyone but a complete idiot ever have bought a WD Raptor or an SSD ?

With a $500 budget, to my mind, considering benchmarks only, the best choice is twin 5850's which puts you only $20 or so over budget.

For my intended usage, which includes running dual screens and a desire for PhysX, I'm going to either have to wait for the 5870x2 or the dual version of the GTX300. In the meantime, the only viable choice that can do dual screens is the GTX295 or the 4870x2 and the latter won't do PhysX. Kinda narrows it down pretty to a pretty small number of choices. If you don't like PhysX, I'm not telling anyone to out and get something that takes advantage of it. Al I'm saying is stop trying to dis people who find it enhances their game play.

 

[FallenSniper]

For my intended usage, which includes running dual screens and a desire for PhysX, I'm going to either have to wait for the 5870x2 or the dual version of the GTX300.

Why do you always contradict yourself?

 

[brockh]

Again, why must we rely on "faith".....why can't "the faithful" ever post links supporting their arguments ? Sure the benchmarks will vary from game to game but unless you are only playing the games that your legion wins on, you have to take the entire average on all the games you are likely to play. Some are optimized for one brand, some for the other.

I seem to recall someone making an unsubstantiated claim (or he'd like to make himself believe) that the GTX 295 was 5-10% faster in most games (e.g. the hypothetical "whatever game" I used). Wait, you said it! Why am I attempting to debate with you when you can argue with yourself?

I don't give a hoot about one brand name being great and the other stinky. It's all about 1) does it deliver the effects you want and 2) how fast does it do it. Who cares what's old and new, how does that affect anything ? How many are happy about owning a 920 that they ran out to buy when new and are now stuck w/ C0 stepping ????

The 295 delivers 5-10% more performance than a 5870 at a system cost increase of 5% .... that's not a bad deal.

If you are going to make an argument by brand, then the argument to make is twin 5850's over either a 295 or a 5870. That argument is quite valid and can be based upon actual numbers instead or ... will be's. If we are just talking benchmarks and value for a $500 budget (ok, $20 over), that's obviously a better choice then the 5870.

Ugh, fanboys. Whichever card is better, is better. You should always be looking for the best deal. Also, driver problems only get better on new cards and cost you no money nor headaches. Are you still using Windows XP too? Enjoy your display driver BSODs.

I am not the one telling other people what to buy or calling them fools because of their choices. Each person must make their individual choice based upon what is important to them. Arguing what you like best should be another person's choice and redefining the playing field with each change in circumstances to fit your argument is what I am objecting to.

For example, the ATI faithful has been expounding on the value of the 58xx series advantage in thermal performance....now here you are arguing the 4870x2 over the GTX295 ... excuse me ?

http://www.driverheaven.net/reviews.php?reviewid=711&pageid=22

What, a 27 degree C temperature difference no longer matters again ???? Again, this is my objection .... flipity flop, flippity flop ......not which card anyone feels is better for their individual usage.

What are you, a politician? Nice out of context quoting. Lets actually look at what I wrote:

The 4870 X2 beats the GTX 295 in some games (regardless of all its other flaws which need not be mentioned)

Are you dense enough where I need to point what I meant out to you? Power and heat, dunce.

Not to mention you're, once again, paying a huge premium.

Again, stop trying to rearrange the playing field to fit your argument. We don't play games on a video card; we play them on PC's. If you want to talk "value" the entire system benefits from the card so "system cost" must be used not card cost. By your logic, how could anyone but a complete idiot ever have bought a WD Raptor or an SSD ?

With a $500 budget, to my mind, considering benchmarks only, the best choice is twin 5850's which puts you only $20 or so over budget.

For my intended usage, which includes running dual screens and a desire for PhysX, I'm going to either have to wait for the 5870x2 or the dual version of the GTX300. In the meantime, the only viable choice that can do dual screens is the GTX295 or the 4870x2 and the latter won't do PhysX. Kinda narrows it down pretty to a pretty small number of choices. If you don't like PhysX, I'm not telling anyone to out and get something that takes advantage of it. Al I'm saying is stop trying to dis people who find it enhances their game play.

My argument is that your argument is completely convoluted. What is this "system cost" you're pressing? Lets do some simple logic (which I hope we can agree on): (1) If the card cost is higher, your "system cost" is higher by only that margin; (2) if the card cost is lower, the "system cost" is lower only by that margin. Looking at those two facts, where, pray tell does anything else come into play? The only difference in "system cost" will be the card cost, because this is not a processor and does not require different components to work the same.

The HD 5870 costs $384.99, and the GTX 295 costs $464.99 (*Note these are real prices taken from Newegg.com, using "Lowest Price" filter), assuming all other parts are the same (which they should be) the entire difference in "system cost" will come down to the cards, which will be $80. What does anything else matter? You're just trying to justify the price premium! Do you really not recognize the larger you make the base for your percentage comparison the smaller and more artificial the resulting percentage will be? The real price premium you're paying for your (self-quoted) 5-10% is almost 21% (really 20.78%). Talk about rearranging the playing field to your argument. System cost? What a joke.

Look, you can do whatever you want. And I have not said a single thing about PhysX and frankly I couldn't care less, but if you want to get anywhere in life start making real arguements or just saying "To hell with you, I want to buy this." instead of coming up with ridiculous arguments that just prove you're completely full of yourself. No one likes people like that and that's why you've created an entire thread full of people who have nothing but disdain for you. Maybe you should try trolling instead.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

OK, so heres 3 benches of the 5870 and the 295.
Now , keep in mind that looking over these benches, they are using the early drivers, and yes, we almost always see better drivers down the road, so, again, yes the gap will close.
Now, I took 3 games that matter for fps, call me on cherry picking if you want, but these games demand alot from any card, and at these resolutions, need a powerful card to run smoothly, and arent games where 1 card get 250 fps, while the other gets 300 and thus wins by 20%
http://www.techpowerup.com/reviews/ATI/Radeon_HD_5870/21.html
Stalker clear sky, the 5870 is the winner here
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643&p=17
Crysis warhead, here we see the 295 winning by 7% at the most
http://anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=3643&p=18
Here we see it losing again in Farcry2

So, you wanted proofs, you wanted something real? Here it is. I choose these games because they represent the newest games, and more difficult games.
Im not here to slam the 295, and all your points about last gens ATI cards running hotter and using more juice are correct, but again, thats last gens cards.
Ive taken the time to show that the 295 is an ok card, but not for its price/perf, not compared with todays games. It costs more, runs hotter, is louder, and its perf isnt any better, while the new 5870 will surely only get better thru driver enhancements, while also containing the ability to outperform the 295 in newer games and throttle it in DX11 usage.
So, dont be all full of yourself, you havnt educated anyone here.I understand you like your card, and its a great card, but it doesnt compare to the 5870 if youre buying new, as it doesnt do anything for you that the 5870 wont do, and alot less, as DX11 is here now

 

[The_Blood_Raven]

So the reviewer I posted is completely wrong ? The demos you can run on dozens of sites use some kind of hypnosis to make you believe you are seeing a difference ?

How about lets see what NVIDIA says?

http://www.nvidia.com/object/physx_faq.html

What is NVIDIA PhysX Technology?
NVIDIA® PhysX® is a powerful physics engine enabling real-time physics in leading edge PC games. PhysX software is widely adopted by over 150 games and is used by more than 10,000 developers. PhysX is optimized for hardware acceleration by massively parallel processors. GeForce GPUs with PhysX provide an exponential increase in physics processing power taking gaming physics to the next level.

What is physics for gaming and why is it important?
Physics is the next big thing in gaming. It's all about how objects in your game move, interact, and react to the environment around them. Without physics in many of today's games, objects just don't seem to act the way you'd want or expect them to in real life. Currently, most of the action is limited to pre-scripted or ‘canned' animations triggered by in-game events like a gunshot striking a wall. Even the most powerful weapons can leave little more than a smudge on the thinnest of walls; and every opponent you take out, falls in the same pre-determined fashion. Players are left with a game that looks fine, but is missing the sense of realism necessary to make the experience truly immersive

With NVIDIA PhysX technology, game worlds literally come to life: walls can be torn down, glass can be shattered, trees bend in the wind, and water flows with body and force. NVIDIA GeForce GPUs with PhysX deliver the computing horsepower necessary to enable true, advanced physics in the next generation of game titles making canned animation effects a thing of the past.

.

I'm not even sure why I even bother. You are such a disillusion idiot it makes my mind hurt.

 

[The_Blood_Raven]

For Jack:

[flash=425,344]http://www.youtube.com/v/eEhDZN0RFjw&hl=en&fs=1&[/flash]

 

[Homeboy2]

Why are you guys wasting your time and bandwidth arguing with a Nvidiot troll/moron?

 

[randomizer]

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