Asus 295 GTX "No Longer Available"

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JackNaylorPE

JackNaylorPE

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Checked my wish list today and noticed that newegg has discontinued carrying the 295GTX saying that the product is "no longer available". Newegg know something we don't know ?

Seems odd that newegg would discontinue carrying a current major product. The $499 price will probbaly be hard to match, best I have seen elsewhere is $533.
 
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Let's say you can actually buy a 5870 on September 30th. If nVidia put pictures on newegg w/ specs and pricing today and just an auto-notify button but you couldn't actually buy one till January 1st, would we say that the 300 and 5870 "came out on the same day" ?

then again, this dude says he has it:

http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16814161301&cm_re=5870-_-14-161-301-_-Product

"It even out performs the 4870 X2 and the 295 in some games!! "

Some games ?????

Not the big deal it was supposed to be:

http://www.techspot.com/review/198-ati-radeon-hd-5870-review/

http://www.bit-tech.net/hardware/graphics/2009/09/23/ait-radeon-hd-5870-1gb-review/9

"The difference between the two cards is DirectX 11 support, a fair whack less electricity and about £55 in raw cash. If you bought a HD 4870 X2 12 months ago, be happy, because you made an awesome investment that's still more or less as fast as the new card for another few months.

Between that and GeForce GTX 295 in a system, then the current lack of DirectX 11 games will make an upgrade far from being worthwhile. You're better off holding on to your dual-GPU card for the time being and setting some money aside for the pending release of the HD 5870 X2 or seeing how Nvidia's GT300 performs (whenever that arrives), by which point there will be more DirectX 11 games to enjoy."

http://www.pcper.com/article.php?aid=783&type=expert&pid=13

"The one caveat is that AMD has left the GTX 285 still as a relevant graphics card option and if NVIDIA lowers prices as it is expected to do, gamers not keen on DX11 or multi-monitor gaming could be convinced to sway away from AMD's new offering.

http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/radeon-hd-5870,2422-22.html

"The board consistently beats Nvidia’s GeForce GTX 285, trades blows with the Radeon HD 4870 X2, and is sometimes able to sneak past the GeForce GTX 295."

Looks like a great design, which will only improve as time goes buy, but as for all the advice telling people not to buy until this card comes out on 9/23.....apparently not the slam dunk we kept hearing about is it ? Those who did go ahead and buy need no longer worry about the predictions of being suddenly relegated to the slow lane.
 
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"Looks like a great design, which will only improve as time goes buy, but as for all the advice telling people not to buy until this card comes out on 9/23.....apparently not the slam dunk we kept hearing about is it ?"

Looks like good advice to me.
 
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It's a single GPU card that performs very very closely to the 295. It's much cheaper, and with new drivers it's performance it's definitely not going to get worse. Buying a 295 now would be the stupidest thing ever...
 
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The same should be said of the 4870 x2, if you have one then sit back and giggle, but do not buy one now unless you need an extra heater whilst browsing the interwibble.
 
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I know that's why I bought that 3870 x2. It's so great on those cold and rainy nights...
 
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It is good advice.....assuming of course that:

- You don't want the absolute fastest card you can get.
- You don't have a thing for PhysX

1. Today, a person struggling to meet a budget should definitely grab the 5970, though my advice would be to wait till at least hardware Rev. B.

2. If money is no object, and you want the "top dog" , the 5870 isn't it.

3. Anyone buying a card should look at the PhysX and DX11 Game Support Lists ....

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PhysX
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_11_support
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_games_with_DirectX_10_support

..... see what tickles their fancy and make their purchase decisions accordingly.

Anandtech summed it up best I think:

"The easiest kind of product for us to write about is the kind that’s clearly superior to its competition. The hardest kind to write about is the kind that’s stuck in the middle. For the 5870, we have the latter case....As is often the case with a new generation of cards, we’re going to see a shakeup here in the market as NVIDIA in particular needs to adjust to these new cards.

The catch however is that what we don’t have is a level of clear domination when it comes to single-card solutions. AMD was shooting to beat the GTX 295 with the 5870, but in our benchmarks that’s not happening. The 295 and the 5870 are close, perhaps close enough that NVIDIA will need to reconsider their position, but it’s not enough to outright dethrone the GTX 295. NVIDIA still has the faster single-card solution, although the $100 price premium is well in excess of the <10% performance premium."

The price / performance statement is not exactly a surprise ..... all we have to do is look at the price / performance premiums for CPU's and GPU's throughout history to see that having the top dog never can be justified on a value basis. You want Intel's fastest CPU ? ..... expect to pay twice the price as the next fastest one.....nuthin' new there and nuthin' new here.
 
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So, all this changes when the x2 comes along?
Or, better drivers? Or more newer games?
Theres alot of holes for anyone to say exactly whats best.
Depends on game, frequency of upgrading etc.
Also, mobo abilities, if you have a cf capable mobo, its a no brainer as well

The fight has just begun between the 5870 and the 295, and to declare it over is a huge mistake
 
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Wow, just wow.

Jack you are the biggest fanboy I've seen in a while, roadrunner worthy, and I don't name call much. Because a CHEAPER card MATCHES a more EXPENSIVE card and will only GET BETTER while the more EXPENSIVE card stays the SAME, then the CHEAPER card is the worse deal?!

You say Physx is a selling point?! YOU HAVE AN I7 920!!! Turning Physx on will make you LOSE PERFORMANCE not gain it, and yes only in 2 games (mirror's edge and Arkham Asylum, the rest will make ZERO difference with or without Physx).

You then compare that to DX11?! DX11 is the FUTURE and Physx is a GIMMICK that currently makes almost ZERO difference, unless when the nVidia card is paired with a slow CPU. Physx, in theory only since it isn't supported well enough to even do this, takes load off of the CPU as not to create a bottleneck at the expense of the GPU(s), with a good CPU, say a Phenom 920 at stock, this is unneeded. When used with an i7 920 that is overclocked it will only hurt performance and is ridiculously stupid to use.

Look I can only put this as simply as this: Buying a GTX 295 right now, in absolutely no way, makes sense.

The drivers for the 5xxx series are fine as of now and will get better, and the GTX 295 will also require driver updates for future games. The GTX 295 is neck and neck with the 5870, and being a single card vs. a dual card, the 5870 will more often than not give a better gaming experience because it will net higher minimum framerates, because it doesn't suffer from SLI/Crossfire scaling, which is the absolute most important benchmark, not average framerates. The 5xxx series has DX11 meaning that it isn't an obsolete card, like any other card on the market. Finally, it costs $120-$150 less.
 
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Only if this pictures on that 100$ bill
Thumb_Jen_Hsun_Huang.jpg
 
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Countering fanboi misinformation from one side doesn't make one a fanboi for the other. Exactly how many of these posts in this thread for example are you going to still try and defend ?

Why buy a 295 when you could buy a 4870??
2 more days, and the 295 loses its crown, and its worth.
Thats too bad youre stucj with slower older tech that costs more, oh well....

That's 0 for 3 by my count.

Based upon past experience, I have had better luck with nVidia cards than ATI. That wouldn't stop me from buying an ATI card if it could claim the "king of the hill" title. In a month I will be having the same argument with the nVidia fanboi's. Picking PC components is a numbers game, it's not a religion.

For month's I been hearing how everyone should take their advice and wait for the 5870's as they are gonna trounce the 295's ..... it didn't happen.....get over it. So now we have crushed egos and the mantra has changed from trouncing to "best value". Why the flip flop ?

Why was the 98 degree heat generated by the 4870x2 not an issue compared to the 295's 71 degrees and yet now that that the 5870 is out, and the 5870 has a purported small advantage, all of a sudden this is "major" ? Why the flip flop ?

Why has there been a clamor for "waiting to September 23rd" and not the same for November 27th ? Why so afraid of letting the numbers speak for themselves and letting the purchaser decide ? Whatever argument their was for waiting from July to September must certainly hold for September to November.....no ? If the 4870x 2 being 28 degrees hotter than the 295 was not an issue, then why doesn't the same logic hold for the 5870 and 295 ?

If someone is going to change their argument to fit whatever makes their "religion" win, then I am going to call them on it. I'll be doing the same thing in another month when the nVidia crew start.

YOU HAVE AN I7 920!!!
Click to expand...

It's kind of a good thing to research your topic , especially before going into SHOUT mode. We have 12 machines, no 920's, no i7's, no i5's. If you paid any attention to what was actually written in this and other threads, you would know that I don't have a 920. What I have is a 920 on my wish list ... though I did have a $500 budget for my CPU so I may change by the time I pull the trigger. My existing PC plays my games good enough and I even play occasionally, and with more than enough satisfaction, on a MacBook Pro I got from school.

This is my Dad's account btw and he's letting me use it because our ISP (optonline.net) blocks all e-mails from THG so I can't activate my own. Right now, I'm leaning towards maybe using one of my old cards and waiting for the newer cards to mature....or purchasing after XMas or even as late as February taking advantage of the usual post holiday price cuts as well as Intel's new CPU's , price cuts and new MoBo releases, hopefully some with on board SAS.

I have watched and helped my father build a lot of machines for us as well as other people.....he's built well over 100 of em. Right now I am doing my 1st entirely solo build (he says he's "cutting the cord") and, as might be expected, am guilty of being a little anxious. If I bought a card today, I'd buy a 295 because, that is the fastest card I can buy within my $500 budget.....it's simply not an arguable point. I'm attending college and working full time while living at my parents home. My income exceeds my needs and I have more than enough money to build what I want. What I can't understand is your objection to how I spend my money ? You obviously consider the 5870 a great "value" but if I prefer the faster card "where's ya beef ?".

I'm not interested in making images of my benchmark scores and posting them as my signatures in forums. I am interested in the actual in game experience....and I happen to like the effects that PhysX provides.

http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=644&pgno=1
http://www.techarp.com/showarticle.aspx?artno=644&pgno=6#conclusion

Many of the games I plan on playing this year have PhysX features so that is attractive to me. But if it's not attractive to others, I certainly don't have a problem with that. I had no interest in DX10 when it came out as it's big draw .... "Halo" I found "kiddie-ish". Nothing on the DX11 list interests me at this point.

When asked to give advice, again, I look to satisfy the questioner's needs rather than my own....that in mind.....

-The fastest card available today is the GTX 295. If a dude wants to win LeMans, don't try selling him a car that will let him take 2nd. The fastest card < 500 bucks available today is not the 5870 .

-If a dude wants the best card for his money, then he has to first set that monetary limit and then get the best performance he can buy for that money. If that limit is $500+, my answer is get a 295 today or wait for the 5870x2 whenever it comes out .....my guess around thanksgiving as ATI will undoubtedly try and trump nVidia's release. If that limit is $400, then the 5870 is the correct answer.

-Today, if someone wants PhysX, it's not up to me decide whether it is worth it to them or not, my only role is to tell him that he ain't gonna get it on a 5870. I don't have an emotional investment in it either way.

-Today, if someone wants DX11, it's not up to me decide whether it is worth it or not, my only role is to tell him that he ain't gonna get it on a 295. Again, I don't have an emotional investment in it.

-If someone is getting by with what they got and have no problems playing what they want to play, I'd say wait for both the lines / dies to top out. Don't wanna be stuck with next year's equivalent of the 4870x2 (no matter which vendor is sitting in that position) when the 295 comes out behind it. If you're gonna keep it for ayear or 2, you don't wanna be 2nd guessing yourself over that period.

-But if you are reading these topics on the forums today, you don't wanna wait that long....so I'd say a person searching teh forums today has a purchase in mind within 3 months.

For the "I must have a new card by thanksgiving" crowd:

-I'm into the fastest card available under $500 and I'm into PhysX - 295
-I'm into the fastest card available under $500, I'm into DX11 - 5870
-I'm into the fastest card available under $500, I don't care about DX11 or PhysX - 295

-I'm into the fastest card available under $400 and I'm into PhysX - 285
-I'm into the fastest card available under $400, I'm into DX11 - 5870
-I'm into the fastest card available under $400, I don't care about DX11 or PhysX - 5870

After thanksgiving:

All bets are off. My crystal ball says the 5870 x2 will be the king of the hill but since it is anticipated to debut at $599, it's outta the < $500 category. My guess is with Nvidia and ATI both having cards on their new die out, the older ones prices will drop in the toilet and there will be some good xfire and SLI bargains.




 
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Look I don't care what you do, you can buy a Rage3d 128 Pro for all I care, but your misinformation and bias may mislead others.

I'll summarize this carefully:

1. You talk as though the GTX 295 is clearly superior even when the 5870 beats it a few times and will become even faster in the coming months. Also because of the higher minimum framerate they are basically equal at this point when comparing gameplay experience and not benchmarks.

2. You state that it is reasonable to be interested in Physx, but in reality it is not. Even if Physx worked, which it doesn't, it would not help anyone with a half-way decent CPU, IE: a CPU that would bottleneck a GTX 260.

3. You make a point of the core temperatures of 2 vastly different cards. What you don't mention is that the temperature of the core in a GPU is not directly proportional to how much heat the card dumps into the system, that depends on the cooling design. In this regard it has been proven time and time again that the difference between the 4870 X2 and the GTX 285 is not very large. Also you are correct, the 5870's temperature performance is irrelevant.

3. You state that some people may not be care about DX11, "Nothing on the DX11 list interests me at this point", and you say that is reasonable. If nothing on the DX11 list interests you than you will not be buying any games for atleast 2 years. Also DX11 is a major improvement and is the future, it is a must for buying any card at this point over $200.

4. You put words in my mouth that were unfair. You say that I don't believe that it makes sense to wait for the G300 release? Odd, I don't find that point anywhere in this or any thread. While your "September to November" point is valid it has one caveat, it may be February before the new G300 cards start rolling out, there is no true likely arrival time for them, just very baseless estimations.

Buy what you will but stick to facts. I am all for waiting a little bit before jumping on the 5xxx series, but don't buy the same, and slightly lesser, card for more than the newer far more future proof alternative. Or do, just don't go and try to convince others that it makes sense and justify it by false information and baseless opinions.
 
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And finally, your needs are a dual core card that costs 30% more than the competion, it runs hotter, uses more power, is louder and wont run the newest games as well, so, In that case, if those are the things you need, and Im only looking out for you, youd best buy the 295 quick, as itll soon go EOL
 
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Let's do a real cost comparision:

System cost w/ 5870 = $ 2,390 w/ a card I can't actually buy as yet
System Cost w/ 295 GTX = $ 2,510 for card in stock

Total system cost difference 5%

Yes, it runs marginally hotter, uses more power and is somewhat louder but again, why weren't those factors when comparing the 295 GTX and the 4870 x2 ????? When that was the playing field, those things didn't matter, now all of a sudden it's a major issues. With the 4870, it ran 27 degrees hotter and that wasn't a problem for ATI fans, now with a teeny temp advantage ....ooh it's major.

I'm not saying the temp isn't an issue for me.....just not enough to give up the speed advantage ... my beef is the flip flop among the ATI fundamentalists.

 
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The consensus has been both in the reviews and in the threads that the 295 is 5 - 10% faster on average. For a 5% overall increase in system costs, it's hard to argue with sincerity that it's not a viable option.

2. You state that it is reasonable to be interested in Physx, but in reality it is not. Even if Physx worked, which it doesn't, it would not help anyone with a half-way decent CPU, IE: a CPU that would bottleneck a GTX 260.
Click to expand...

I guess it depends on what your goals are. I am not interested in having the highest frame rates posted in my forum signature; I am interested in "immersion" . Pre-scripted animations get old real fast. A devastating weapon leaves little more than a scuff on the flimsyest of surfaces. Every enemy you kill, drops in exactly the same way. There is a total absence of realism in most game experiences which PhysX does a lot to eliminate. With PhysX, walls can be torn down, glass can be shattered into hundreds of pieces, trees and branches bend in the wind like "in real life" obeying the laws of physics, cloth tears. When things blow up, the motions of object actually have trajectories and respond to collisions according to physics.

Reviewers have apparently had different experiences.

http://www.hitechlegion.com/reviews/video-cards/718-evga-geforce-gtx-275-ftw-edition-review?showall=1

"PhysX does accelerate graphics, yes, but where its real talent lies is on the way it creates a more lifelike gaming atmosphere. PhysX will immerse you into your game, with glass that actually breaks around you and truly falls into pieces. It will also enhance smoke and other objects, such as debris that might fleck off a rock when it is hit with a bullet. I had thought that when PhysX was turned on, there would be a drop in FPS, due to the GPU rendering more lifelike images, but in the games that I tested with PhysX on I did not see that at all.

3. You state that some people may not be care about DX11, "Nothing on the DX11 list interests me at this point", and you say that is reasonable. If nothing on the DX11 list interests you than you will not be buying any games for atleast 2 years. Also DX11 is a major improvement and is the future, it is a must for buying any card at this point over $200.
Click to expand...

I don't have DX10 now and wasn't among the kiddies who ran out and upgraded to Vista so I could play Halo 3 .... didn't like Halo before. And as for the 2 year comment, it's hardly relevant as whatever card I get will be replaced by the next generation of the 4870x2 or GTX 295 when they have grown to maturity come summer or so. With a full time job, college tuition already paid, I have little else to spend my disposable income on.

4. You put words in my mouth that were unfair. You say that I don't believe that it makes sense to wait for the G300 release? Odd, I don't find that point anywhere in this or any thread. While your "September to November" point is valid it has one caveat, it may be February before the new G300 cards start rolling out, there is no true likely arrival time for them, just very baseless estimations.
Click to expand...

I wasn't solely addressing you .... but addressing the "brand fundamentalist" approach that exists on many forums where an argument in favor of one thing based upon "the criteria A" used as a basis for all their arguments suddenly becomes irrelevant when a new player enters the market. Here we went from "don't buy the 295 cause when the 58xx comes out, it will trounce it" and the "4870x2's 27 degree C heat difference compared tot he 295 is not an issue" .... to "the 58xx is a better value" and "the 5870's advantage in heat is huge".

Buy what you will but stick to facts. I am all for waiting a little bit before jumping on the 5xxx series, but don't buy the same, and slightly lesser, card for more than the newer far more future proof alternative. Or do, just don't go and try to convince others that it makes sense and justify it by false information and baseless opinions.
Click to expand...

I have yet to have a fact refuted:

-The 295 is still the fastest card under $500
-Waiting for the GTX 3xx series now makes as much sense now as waiting for the 58xx did in July.
-I have yet to actually see a 58xx in stock anywhere ..... I can't stay up till midnight to watch for newly arrived shipments to be posted.
-There's nothing to suggest that ATI and nVida won't continue to leap frog over one another in the future as they have in past years.

One thing that I do find interesting however is that the 5850 in XFire seems a lot more attractive then the 5870 either as a single card or in XFire.
 
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I guess on release drivers thats true, and might, just might be true after all the driver improvements are seen on the 5870, tho IMO I doubt that very much. That being said, theyre meant for new games and old games as well. Old games? 295 may hold its own, or may not, depending on driver improvements.
New games? The 295 will get throttled.
Oh, and 5% is relative, so yes, its still 100$ or so
 
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Or, to put it another way, as you pointed out, only 5% more for 5-10% more (currently) perf also translates as 25% more for the card for only 5-10% perf again currently, and if we dont see at least a 10% increase due to driver improvements, thatll be a first, as well as the new games which again, itll kill the 295 in
Oh, and dont remember your res, but if its 25x16? Then youre better off with the 5870 as well, as the 295 tanks in many games at that res, as has been seen in many benches
 
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