Atheism Discussion

[shredder777]

I wanted to start this forum because there wasn't one previously, which shocked me of course. So here we are and to any creationist that try to preach here I let you but with only one request: Back up your preachings with evidence.

I believe, no I know that we can't prove or disprove the existence of a higher power, but it is more logical to believe that there is none for it is next to impossible.

There are many religions out there, how to know which one is right: Is it Allah or God? Atman or Zeus? If you are raised in India you believe in Atman, if you had been raised in ancient greece you would believe in Zeus. So how can people in their specific religion know they are right, until someone proves it I remain an atheist.

 

[badge]

Pray for a shred of grace.

 

[shredder777]

Pray for a shred of grace.

Ha

 

[wanamingo]

You know when you get scared at the movies or from some imagined threat? Your brain cant tell the difference between actually being chased by a T-1000 and watching Arnold try and kill Edward Furlong.

My point being is if you believe in God(s) your brain makes it so, it cant tell the difference between God existing and God not existing. Some people NEED that, ya know the whole opiate of the people thing. Which at the time would be like saying the Tylenol of the people, it comforts them.

The idea that God is an oversized white male with a flowing beard who sits in the sky and tallies the fall of every sparrow is ludicrous. But if by God one means the set of physical laws that govern the universe, then clearly there is such a God. This God is emotionally unsatisfying... it does not make much sense to pray to the law of gravity.

-Carl Sagan

 

[wanamingo]

Anyone ever read into Buddhism and quantum physics?

 

[gropouce]

I believe, no I know that we can't prove or disprove the existence of a higher power, but it is more logical to believe that there is none for it is next to impossible.

So you should have called this thread "agnosticism discussion". Atheism is different, it means you believe that god doesn't exist, agnosticism is when you just don't know.

(that was all i have to say. sorry for interrupt.

)

 

[wanamingo]

See old man we can agree on some things.

Since Shredder hasn't provided any opinions other than god doesnt exist (Duh) my feelings on the subject are as follows:

The chances of you being here are 1/∞ . Also known as so unlikely it will never ever happen. The chances that gravity, nuclear force, speed of light, hydrogen and helium being the weights they are, in the proper quantities is not possible. but over a long enough timeline anything and everything will happen. The proper conditions for a star to ignite or permanently hold a planet in the Goldilocks zone are for all practical purposes never going to happen. This takes a million monkey typing for a million years thing to a whole new level.

Buddhism says that we are all one, and at one point we were. Something came from nothing (Loosely speaking) Everything that is in the universe occupied one infinitely small point. So Buddhists were right we are literally one with the universe, every single atom at one pint shared the same cramped apartment with every other atom.

Immediately after the big bang there wasnt too much except for helium and hydrogen. Now somewhere in the seconds following the big bang all of the subatomic particles that make up you and me were floating around out there, along with all the material that makes up your keyboard,puppies,Muslims and mountain dew can towers.

All of those heavy elements became attracted to each other through gravity until there was so much matter fusion happened and thus the first light in the universe. These guys burned for a few billion years eventually exploding and releasing more complex elements(Lead, Carbon, Gold, literally everything) Repeat for a few Billion years and then you start to get a bunch of material.

Now this is interesting because the sub atomic particles that make up you and me were at one point in the fukking heart of a SUN. If that doesn't invoke some awe in you then you may be a reptilian space lizard(Im on to you).

Then ~5 billion years ago a nearby Star went supernova releasing tons of material and energy. shite cools down starts to condense again until it achieves fusion and our sun is born! pushes out the 1% of material that didn't collapse into hellfire and achieved a stable orbit in just the right place, with just the right size, and just enough ocean. Not to mention our lazy roomate the moon.

Then evolution starts after enough complex organic material fell into the right chain and life started a world wide king of the hill challenge (Humans = WINNING).


My point being is look up some clear night and see all of the other stars and realize that of all the shite in the universe a few elements formed just the right way at just the right time to give you guys access to this forum. When you run the numbers (Try it Some time) it comes out to impossible. That means gentlemen that every single one of us has won the lottery and the payout was 1/∞. But at the same time I also believe that when your time is up that's it, you're done. No after life, no reincarnation (Abstractly maybe) nada. So enjoy it while you can.

 

[wanamingo]

But that's even funnier science has a creation story that for the time being cant be proved definitively. Its all just theories. Just pick the theory you are most comfortable with and roll with it. Everyone does it. Some people just start wars over their theory. And some donate food to the poor.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Remember all those old civilizations before what we today call God?
Didnt think so

Oh wait, people back then were stupid because we couldnt measure the speed of light, or have a defined instance of what today we call gravity.

That proves it, at first, these things were fine with God and people, but after time, people evolved these things, this knowledge to themselves, and have become godlike, makes sense to me.

Whens the last time knowing the speed of light fed someone?
Maybe all those Godless civilazations just starved to death?

 

[dogman_1234]

Here is the deal:

The basis of Creation/ Evolution is that there needs to be a fore acting upon the system. Now, roll in that mud puddle for a while and you get to realize it is more speculation that theory or fact.

Science is the basis of accepting an idea of how something works...not to prove anything actually happens. If one could prove the laws of Thermodynamics, then why can't we manipulate them to achieve super-light speed?

Also, the basis for the STC must also exist for anything to exist. I think of the STC as a table before the meal. Without the table, where does one eat? The floor/ That would be a disaster, none the less.

Here is my point:

Yes, What created God is a good question, but what created the Big Bang? What forces acted upon it? How can the STC be there when the laws of physics were never there. That means the Big bang violate the Laws of physics and therefor cannot be created upon or active at the time...or never. Plus, the BB was a mass discharge of electromagnetic energy...like light. What did God create first after the heavens and the earth?

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Interestingly enough, God exists outside of time.
Nothing thats been here first, or created by God exists, but that whats already here.
Were just now accepting other dimensional possibilities, its about time, since the people of God has known this for thousands of years

 

[wanamingo]

Here is the deal:

The basis of Creation/ Evolution is that there needs to be a fore acting upon the system. Now, roll in that mud puddle for a while and you get to realize it is more speculation that theory or fact.

Science is the basis of accepting an idea of how something works...not to prove anything actually happens. If one could prove the laws of Thermodynamics, then why can't we manipulate them to achieve super-light speed?

Also, the basis for the STC must also exist for anything to exist. I think of the STC as a table before the meal. Without the table, where does one eat? The floor/ That would be a disaster, none the less.

Here is my point:

Yes, What created God is a good question, but what created the Big Bang? What forces acted upon it? How can the STC be there when the laws of physics were never there. That means the Big bang violate the Laws of physics and therefor cannot be created upon or active at the time...or never. Plus, the BB was a mass discharge of electromagnetic energy...like light. What did God create first after the heavens and the earth?

I understand where you are going with that, and I could buy into god is the laws that govern the universe. But the problem here is (especially with the big bang) if we talk about the BB then we know it has a beginning and If it has a beginning then it must have a cause. If the cause is God then you run into logic issues such as god must have a beginning and a cause to exist and on and on.

So can something happen uncaused? Or are we just not asking the right questions?

 

[wanamingo]

God is infinite. He has no beginning or end. He just is.

If you believe that then the discussion is already over. You cant prove it and I cant disprove it. But it doesnt make sense. I mean what a sick bastard if he creates an imperfect universe then forces us to live here for what, his amusement? Why do bad things happen to good people? If God is responsible for the whole universe then why doesnt he make it a little more hospitable? Or just as a sign of good faith(pun intended) why not eradicate cancer? It makes more sense when you drop God out of the picture, cold hard chaos. That would explain why bad things happen to good people, wars, famine, mass extinction. God also gives too much credit to someone else, you are here because Humans are the most adaptable, smartest creatures on this planet. To say we were created that way would belittle everything your ancestors have done, even the single celled ones.

 

[Reynod]

Religion is the opium of the masses.

Cull all of the fanatics I say ... a quick injection and into the mulcher and mixed into the compost for the fields ... blood and bone.

I do have time for the poor misguided weak willed who do believe in god ... as I feel I need to help them where possible to stand on their own two feet eventually.

Many get sucked in when they become ill ... the whole "after death" insurance policy.

I do think strong religious conviction should be labelled as a mental disorder ... and many share my view in that regard.

In saying that I do believe that we should encourage those of all religions to work together for the common good ... that being primarily to worship me.

Next ...

 

[wanamingo]

Hey Reynod if I sign up now can i get a commanding position in your [strike]army[/strike] [strike]cult [/strike] Religion?

I like the ring of Pope Mingo.

This isnt one of those no sex of caffeine religions is it? Mingo dont play that.

Whats the name of your religion? So i can get the t-shirts and coffee mugs emblazoned.

 

[wanamingo]

Believing in a creator is NOT religion. Chritianity, Judaism, Islam are religions.

mingo, God just set the universe in motion. It's up to us what we do with it.

So God is the idea of the fundamental forces that make our universe? Or that literally something shaped like us is out there watching, waiting, counting the fall of every sparrow, and punishing the wicked?

Then we come back to what made god? He must have an origin, a creator. Thats almost scarier, its like you know you have a dad and he is the coolest guy in the universe but he wants nothing to do with you. Just once a long time ago he put some events into motion.

 

[wanamingo]

Then /thread.

This is what they call faith:
strong or unshakeable belief in something, esp without proof or evidence.

Wouldnt there also be a bit more magic?

Scientists at LHC released evidence that the electrical bonds holding the universe together is in fact Magic, yes folks magic is real and science has found it.

 

[shredder777]

So you should have called this thread "agnosticism discussion". Atheism is different, it means you believe that god doesn't exist, agnosticism is when you just don't know.

(that was all i have to say. sorry for interrupt. http://img.infos-du-net.com/forum/images/perso/1/alone-tonight.gif )

I said that we cant disprove God but I still don't believe in his existence just because there is more evidence on the contrary.

 

[wanamingo]

Youve been awfully silent on this shredder what are your views on religion and God?

 

[shredder777]

Trying to understand the creator is impossible. In my mind, he created the universe with a mere thought. Time has no meaning. He is the alpha and the omega. He has always been and will always be long after this universe is gone.

Okay imagine two different worlds. In the first God is apparent. He is visible like the sun. There would be no atheists right.
The second world for sure has no god. eventually however, people invents a god, and other people invent another god and so on.
Which world sounds more like ours?

God is nothing more than an excuse. He was invented by man to answer the great questions of life. Until we either see him, or get evidence for him we should not believe in him.

Another thing I am talking about all gods. That is another thing most of you here believe in God from christianity. Other people believe in Bratman, others in Allah. If you had grown up in ancient greece you would belive in Zeus, if you grew up with the nord tribes of scandinavia you would believe in thor. When you realize why you don't believe in the gods of other religions, then you will know why atheists belive in no god.

As for evolution, its not a matter of "if" but "when" we find the required evidence to fill the gaps. Although religious people comment on the gaps of our arguments, they fail to see the gaps of their own argument which has many more than ours.

However if you really believe god exist then prove it.

 

[shredder777]

Youve been awfully silent on this shredder what are your views on religion and God?

I have to sleep man. I am back though the above post highlights most of my vies.

 

[shredder777]

The evidence is all around you. Your very existence is proof.

I agree. Our existence is proof of evolution.

 

[shredder777]

Evolution doesn't explain creation though.

No, but neither does religion. And if it does, which religion proves it?

 

[Reynod]

Schopenhauer spoke of this and the subjective german idealist philosophical framework fits well in terms of explaining this delusion.

I am more of an objective idealist so you can keep your rose colured glasses on whilst I look upong the world in all of its majesty and terror ... unblinking ... and accepting the fact that when I die there will be nothing.

In the meantime I am happy to be a small god ... just a few followers will be enough.

Niesche would be proud of me.

Mingo ... you shall be known as the metal pope ... spread the word of the guitar gods ...

 

[wanamingo]

Hell yes