[SOLVED] B450M PRO-VDH Max Compatability with gen 3 Ryzen CPU

[MrMeowmers]

Hey, so I'm looking at upgrading my rig with a new mobo, CPU and RAM, and just need to figure out if this mobo I'm looking at will be compatible with a Gen 3 CPU.

The MOBO is this model: B450M PRO-VDH Max

Wondering if it's compatible with a Ryzen 7 3700X, or if I'll have to update the BIOS first. (I can't, I don't have Gen 2 to work with...)

Cheers!

 

[Darkbreeze]

It's compatible, but that board is about as bottom of the barrel as it gets and I would HIGHLY recommend that if you are going to run a 3700x, you get a much higher quality motherboard. Otherwise, you WILL have issues with thermal throttling or early failure of that board. Guaranteed.

That board was meant to be used with lower end processors. It will work, but it's not going to last and you'll almost certainly have issues with boost behavior.

The fact that it is a "Max" model, means it is Ryzen 3000 compatible out of the box. What it DOESN'T mean, is that it will work well with a high end Ryzen CPU that has many cores and a much higher TDP than a lower core count model.

What is the purpose of this machine? What is it for? Gaming? Productivity?

DO you already have the CPU?

Do you already have the motherboard?

What have you already bought, and what HAVEN'T you bought yet, and, what do you have TO spend on these parts?

What country are you in?

 

[MrMeowmers]

It's compatible, but that board is about as bottom of the barrel as it gets and I would HIGHLY recommend that if you are going to run a 3700x, you get a much higher quality motherboard. Otherwise, you WILL have issues with thermal throttling or early failure of that board. Guaranteed.

That board was meant to be used with lower end processors. It will work, but it's not going to last and you'll almost certainly have issues with boost behavior.

The fact that it is a "Max" model, means it is Ryzen 3000 compatible out of the box. What it DOESN'T mean, is that it will work well with a high end Ryzen CPU that has many cores and a much higher TDP than a lower core count model.

What is the purpose of this machine? What is it for? Gaming? Productivity?

DO you already have the CPU?

Do you already have the motherboard?

What have you already bought, and what HAVEN'T you bought yet, and, what do you have TO spend on these parts?

What country are you in?

Answering those in the order they were asked:

Gaming, currently has a MSI GTX 1070 8GB, i7 4770.

I don't have the MOBO or CPU yet, likely getting on black friday.

I already have everything except the CPU, MOBO, RAM and cooler that I have on my shopping list. Totalled out to 920 CAD, including a 100 CAD 2TB SSHD that I was looking at getting.

And I live in Canada!

 

[Darkbreeze]

And how much is your budget for CPU, motherboard and memory?

 

[MrMeowmers]

https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/list/CF7yXv

Honestly, I'm hoping to still only spend around the like... 850 CAD that was the total of the CPU, mobo and RAM, but crossing my fingers that Black Friday sales bring at least the CPU or MOBO/RAM down. Dunno if it will or not.

The cooler and SSHD can wait, the 3700X comes with a stock cooler which would cover me for now.

 

[Darkbreeze]

You don't want that Gammaxx AIO. While the Gammaxx 400 is a terrific budget air cooler, the whole Gammax line of AIO coolers is cheap crap. The Deepcool Captain coolers, are pretty fair. Not so much for the Gammaxx. That L in the name, stands for Lite, and when it comes to power supplies and AIO coolers, "Lite" means "cheap". They have cheap pump assemblies and poor quality radiators and fittings. They tend to leak much faster than more expensive models and it is very common to see pump failures inside of two years. Often, much earlier than that. That is not the way to save money. If you want a halfway decent AIO, be prepared to pay 120-180 for it.

Honestly, unless you MUST have an AIO for aesthetic reasons, any good air cooler, which is much cheaper, will outperform all but the larger 280 and 320mm AIO coolers, and even give them a run for their money ESPECIALLY when it comes to noise levels. Obviously that is your choice, but unless you want to replace your CPU cooler (And QUITE possibly other hardware if it leaks onto your board or graphics card) about every three years, I'd stick to air. Even the best AIO coolers generally don't last more than about three years before the pump fails. Then you replace the whole thing.

CPU air cooler, never fails. The FAN might fail, eventually, but then that's a 25 dollar fix to put a top of the line Noctua or Thermalright fan on it and then it's good for another five to seven years.

I'd recommend doing something like this, it makes a lot more sense and you're going to get a lot more miles out of it.

Also, if you can return that CX600 Corsair PSU, do so, it's garbage. You do not want to use that with this system. I've personally seen MANY, MANY cases where it has not lasted a year and I've seen SEVERAL cases where it has taken out a motherboard or other hardware when it DID die. And that is several cases too many. They are not good quality power supplies AND they are not the same as the newer CX550 and CX650 2017 gray label units. TOTALLY different internal platforms and quality. If you have already had that unit for some time, replace it. Do not use it with this system.

For gaming, this R5 3600 is MORE than capable enough for that GTX 1070. In fact, in reviews, the Ryzen 5 3600 is not behind the 3700x by much and by even less in games that primarily only using six cores or less.

Do not look at max FPS. Look at the 1% low, because the .1 and 1% low FPS is where problems will happen. It pretty well matches the 3700x most of the time. Even the max FPS are rarely more than a couple of FPS behind and it beats out the 8700k 1% low in several games.

AMD Ryzen 5 3600 Review: Best All-Round Value CPU

The successor to our favorite best value CPU, the Ryzen 5 3600 is AMD's new $200 6-core, 12-thread processor. The chip clocks between 3.6 GHz and 4.2...

www.techspot.com

PCPartPicker Part List

CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 3600 3.6 GHz 6-Core Processor ($253.25 @ Vuugo)
CPU Cooler: Noctua NH-U14S 82.52 CFM CPU Cooler ($86.99 @ PC-Canada)
Motherboard: MSI B450 TOMAHAWK MAX ATX AM4 Motherboard ($149.99 @ Memory Express)
Memory: G.Skill Ripjaws V 32 GB (2 x 16 GB) DDR4-3600 Memory ($174.99 @ Memory Express)
Storage: ADATA Premier Pro SP600 128 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (Purchased For $0.00)
Storage: Samsung 860 Evo 250 GB 2.5" Solid State Drive (Purchased For $0.00)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (Purchased For $0.00)
Storage: Western Digital Caviar Blue 1 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Internal Hard Drive (Purchased For $0.00)
Storage: Seagate FireCuda 2 TB 3.5" 7200RPM Hybrid Internal Hard Drive ($99.95 @ Amazon Canada)
Video Card: MSI GeForce GTX 1070 8 GB Video Card (Purchased For $0.00)
Case: Corsair Graphite Series 230T ATX Mid Tower Case (Purchased For $0.00)
Power Supply: Corsair CX 600 W 80+ Bronze Certified Semi-modular ATX Power Supply (Purchased For $0.00)
Total: $765.17
Prices include shipping, taxes, and discounts when available
Generated by PCPartPicker 2019-10-29 01:48 EDT-0400

 

[MrMeowmers]

Fair enough, I was kind of thinking the same way if I'm honest. I figured I was going to use the stock cooler that came with the 3700X until I found a cooler I liked. I currently have a Hyper 212 EVO in my case that I've had good luck with so far.

As for the PSU, I've had it for about... 5-6 years now? I can change it for this upgrade, most likely, shouldn't be a huge cost to me.

I may still be willing to grab a higher tier CPU. The R7 3700X was a good price for what it is, and would last me a good few years before needing to be replaced again. It's not miles ahead of the R5 3600 on PassMark, but it's still a couple thousand over the R5 3600, and +2 cores.
But I also haven't really built a computer or done research on stuff like this for years, so you might be the smarter one here, lol. Basically, I hope to not have to update the CPU for another 3-5 years. That and I'm getting the stuff around Black Friday, so maybe the 3700X will be on sale.

I'm gonna be heading to sleep here shortly, but I appreciate the help so far, will check the thread in the morning if I have time, if not, then whenever I can!

Cheers, have a good evening!

 

[Darkbreeze]

When you consider there are still a LOT of people, even on this here forum, people who are pretty advanced users and COULD afford something newer if they wanted, that are still rocking 3rd Gen Ivy bridge or 4/5th Gen Haswell, 4/8 core/thread i7's with big graphics cards and having no issues it's not hard to see the 3600 with it's 6/12 lasting four or five years. I mean, Ivy was released in 2012, so those systems are 7 years old and many of them are not only still in service but doing admirably well in gaming machines.

The 3700x is not a bad choice, of course, but it IS twice as expensive as the 3600 so it's 100% more expensive for maybe 10-15% better performance, tops. For gaming at least. Even if you plan to record, stream, encode, dual monitors with browsers, etc., the 3600 can easily handle that but the 3700x, IF you are going to be heavily multitasking, makes more sense than it otherwise would.

 

[MrMeowmers]

You make a good point, lol.

I do often browse or watch videos on my second monitor while I play, and occasionally stream for friends, and with my 4770 I don't see a problem. But ive noticed that it's slowed down with some newer games and just isn't as capable as before. You are right though, the main increase in performance with the 3700x that I can see is just the fact that it's got another 2/4 cores.

Now, whether that would increase performance for what I usually do (game, videos, sometimes a few other things), then it might be worth it if it goes on sale. But otherwise I think I might reconsider going with the 3600 and save myself some cash. Could be worth it. I imagine I'd have the option of overclocking, too.

 

[MrMeowmers]

Okay, so after doing more looking at benchmarks with PassMark, and userbenchmarks website, the 3600 and 3700X are both great choices, but you only get 10%-ish increase with the 3700X.

While it would have a long life from now till later, the 3600 is still brand new (3 months) and should do me just fine, while saving me 200+. So the only deciding factor is if Black Friday is going to give me a sweet deal, lol. (I doubt it.)

My only other question then- And before I ask it, I just want to thank you again for all your help, Darkbreeze!

But do you have suggestions for PSU?
I'm thinking maybe the RMX 650, or some other modular Corsair, so I can limit the amount of cables I've got going around?

Cheers!

 

[Darkbreeze]

You can see my full recommendations for PSU models here:

Discussion - PSU recommendations and power supply discussion thread - Tom's hardware

Below you will find MY standard list of recommended power supplies and beyond that this thread is intended as a landing place for questions or discussions regarding specific units, platforms or related PSU tech, all of which are all welcome to be discussed here. If it's related to power supplies...

forums.tomshardware.com

But the short version is that good models are the Antec high current gamer gold and Earthwatts gold pro, Corsair RMx and RMi (Even the plain RM, but to a slightly lesser degree) plus also the very high end AX units. For EVGA the GQ, G2 and to a lesser degree because it's actually not as good as the G2, the G3, plus also the P2 and T2 units. For Seasonic these days you want only to look at the Focus Plus and Prime models, with the Prime Ultra Titaniums being up there with the Corsair AX units as the best models money can buy.

Anything on this list is a solid choice, although there are a couple of older models on there so just ask about anything specific and I'll be glad to steer you away from old designs. Or, just look at professional online reviews from places like here at TH, or JonnyGuru.com.


https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product...000000,2000000000000&m=11,71&sort=price&p=1,2

 

[MrMeowmers]

You can see my full recommendations for PSU models here:

Discussion - PSU recommendations and power supply discussion thread - Tom's hardware

Below you will find MY standard list of recommended power supplies and beyond that this thread is intended as a landing place for questions or discussions regarding specific units, platforms or related PSU tech, all of which are all welcome to be discussed here. If it's related to power supplies...

forums.tomshardware.com

But the short version is that good models are the Antec high current gamer gold and Earthwatts gold pro, Corsair RMx and RMi (Even the plain RM, but to a slightly lesser degree) plus also the very high end AX units. For EVGA the GQ, G2 and to a lesser degree because it's actually not as good as the G2, the G3, plus also the P2 and T2 units. For Seasonic these days you want only to look at the Focus Plus and Prime models, with the Prime Ultra Titaniums being up there with the Corsair AX units as the best models money can buy.

Anything on this list is a solid choice, although there are a couple of older models on there so just ask about anything specific and I'll be glad to steer you away from old designs. Or, just look at professional online reviews from places like here at TH, or JonnyGuru.com.


https://ca.pcpartpicker.com/product...000000,2000000000000&m=11,71&sort=price&p=1,2

Currently been looking at PSU's the last few days, might run with a Seasonic or just go with another Corsair, but I have my original concern over the motherboard- It's still a B450, will it be compatible with the 3600, or would I need to have it flashed by someone with the previous generation up to latest BIOS update?

Edit: Dumb question, I think amazon questions have been asked about this and answered already!

 

[Darkbreeze]

Yes, you would most likely need a prior gen CPU so you can flash the BIOS. It doesn't have flashback and it's doubtful, but possible, that it will come with an already updated BIOS version, so I'd be prepared just in case. AMD also has a loaner CPU program for flashing, but it requires a deposit and probably shipping fees as well.

 

[MrMeowmers]

So looks like I might go with the SSR-650FX, any suggestion against it?

The reviews on both amazon and PCPartPicker are downright incredible and it seems like it'd fit my purposes just fine.

 

[Darkbreeze]

The Focus plus is perfectly fine. I have no issues with that unit. It's a good choice.

Turns out too, in case you needed to do it, that AMD apparently makes the loaner CPUs available at no cost to customers, so if you need to do that I can get that information for you.

 

[MrMeowmers]

The Focus plus is perfectly fine. I have no issues with that unit. It's a good choice.

Turns out too, in case you needed to do it, that AMD apparently makes the loaner CPUs available at no cost to customers, so if you need to do that I can get that information for you.

Wicked, thank you for all the help!

Been good getting information for upgrading after all these years of not keeping up with PC tech advancements, hah.

 

[Darkbreeze]