Ban Assault Weapons

[Crashman]

By that logic everyone is Switzerland should be dead. An they are allowed to own real, fully automatic assault rifles.

You're perfectly correct, as Switzerland is the perfect example of how successful people motivate others to succeed. As opposed to America's race to the cultural bottom, with guys who can't even hold their pistols strait and girls who think that the only way to get food stamps is to get pregnant. But those are just examples from my family...if you can call in-laws family...

 

[johnsonma]

Wrong!

Right to self defense is a God given right. God gave bears claws and sharp teeth. God gave man the intelligence to invent better weapons than claws or teeth.

Once you recognize your natural rights come from God and not man, you begin to understand why the liberals and progressives in America have been trying to remove God from society since forever.

Once you realize your rights come from God and are inherant, then you realize your unalienable rights can never be taken away by an act of man. Those who seek to rule over others hate this truth.

This is the truth liberalls/progressives have been trying to re-write or erase all together for over a century.

Bears have claws and sharp teeth because the ones without claws and dull teeth died off. Man has intelligence because the dumb ones died.

Using religion as a reason to own guns is asinine. The reason we shouldn't own guns is because Zues will shoot a lightning bolt up your @@@ if you do own one. There, now we both have religious reasons for our arguments.

 

[johnsonma]

If God didn't create guns, or at least the materials to make guns, how are they here? Are you implying that there's another God, or that man is just as powerful as God and can manifest new materials/minerals into existence, specifically for the purpose to make guns? I'm pretty sure God created aluminum, steel, plastic, sulfur, charcoal, etc.

You speak as if God is this tender, kind entity that doesn't do any harm...if that's the case, why are tornados? Or hurricanes? Or lightning that causes forest fires? Or diseases that wipes out hundreds of millions, even billions, over the course of time? Or blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.

Why did God play games with Job and make him suffer so much if he's so pure? Job lost his family, friends, wealth, his health; everything he knew. And why did God do this? ...Just to prove a point to the devil (according to the Bible).

Guns seem to fit quite well within all this destruction.

Lol, k. Where to begin? Heavy metals came from exploding stars, charcoal came from decomposing animals and plants. Tornados come from intersecting weathers systems, hurricanes come from heat transference from the surface of the water to the water molecules in the air and then being blown inward by wind. Lightning sometimes hits forests, therefore you sometimes get forest fires. Is it some perceived hand that directs this bolt of lightning? No.

The point I'm trying to make is the fact that we created guns and owning them is a right we have given to ourselves. No religious argument should be made for it. For that would be intellectually pointless and provide no new perspective.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Since God created everything, then weve created nothing.
Its all here, we but shape it to our use.

Those deadly mannatees prove the strong survive too

 

[calmstateofmind]

No. You are talking about why an otherwise law-abiding person would be driven to steal and kill. However criminals aren't law-abiding. They are driven by any number of reasons to steal and kill, often involving theft for supporting a drug habit and theft/murder for increasing their social status in a gang. You can give a druggie a welfare check that's large enough for them to afford a nice house and plenty of food and they would still blow it all on drugs and then steal things to get yet more drugs. You can give a gang member a welfare check that's large enough for them to afford a nice house and plenty of food and they'll still kill opposing gang members and steal things to get even flashier jewelry/clothes/rims/etc. to improve their social status.

But nice "it's all the evil anti-socialist, gun-worshipping Republicans' fault" troll, though. You are certainly persistent...

Right, because they've already "gone criminal". It's almost impossible to get out of the system once you're in it. I'm talking about preventing that from occurring all together.

I'm not trolling...I've been a member of the site for about three years now and I'm not making any senseless jabs at anyone to spark anger. I'm giving my honest, genuine opinion on the situation. And I never said it was the gun owners fault, at all, so please stop trying to put words in my mouth.

Like I said, it's our country's lack of education and screwed up priorities that's the seed of these problems...paying basketball/football/baseball players millions and billions of dollars every year, yet teachers are getting paid $40-60k a year, for instance. That idea can be applied to many other facets of our society.

And who said I was liberal? Or republican? It seems that several of you have very narrow views when it comes to an opinion, automatically trying to place someone in a category and not simply listening to their view point. So call me liberal, republican, whatever; either way, you're wrong and your opinion of me is based off very limited interaction (next to none, actually).

 

[calmstateofmind]

The point I'm trying to make is the fact that we created guns and owning them is a right we have given to ourselves. No religious argument should be made for it.

Then why did you bring religion into the conversation?

God didn't create guns, why would he/she/it make it a right to have one? Its an American right to own one but not a God given right.

Would that not be a religiously supported argument?

 

[johnsonma]

Then why did you bring religion into the conversation?



Would that not be a religiously supported argument?

OMG said it was a God given right...did you skip that post?

 

[johnsonma]

I mentioned no religion at all. Your dismissal of God is your perogative, but it does not negate the fact that our natual rights, just like every other living creature on the planet, comes from our creator, not man.

The 2nd amendment does not only apply to firearms but all arms.

Your response was predictably lame.

Interesting how you buy into the protestant rhetoric about guns, yet in deeper reflection on religion you fall back on your native american beliefs. Your being dishonest to yourself OMG.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

If you really know your constitution, you can pick out who also does, and what they meant

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

So, the evil man was the government, who forced the good man into sin/harm/harming others.
So, a rare exception, much like whats happening when we see these shootings.
Cant argue against what happened here, or can you?
How many people were harmed before it was stopped?
How many dead?
Why do we see such harsh control over the internet in some countries, and an attempt at least to recognize something like this happening, and who could possibly do it?
Or thru gun registration, follow the paper/electronic trail.
This answers the why of guns without the use of hunting, to fit perfectly within the constitutions meaning

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Would you please OMG start placing our glorious government in a better light, Im afraid you may be disturbing some here

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Government cant be greedy, they always pay their debts.
The common man is protected from things like this.
Theres no needs to worry about such things, like that would ever happen.
Just using a few EXAMPLES to approve a certain thing isnt logical.
Making or taking a few exceptions doesnt work, or, um, ummm

 

[4Ryan6]

Would you please OMG start placing our glorious government in a better light, Im afraid you may be disturbing some here

Government cant be greedy, they always pay their debts.
The common man is protected from things like this.
Theres no needs to worry about such things, like that would ever happen.
Just using a few EXAMPLES to approve a certain thing isnt logical.
Making or taking a few exceptions doesnt work, or, um, ummm

Seriously John?

Sometimes the truth does hurt, we all know that, there are things our government has done that it should not have done whether it be federal or state.

And if our government always pays it's debts, we'd have no deficit.

So you must be joking.

Good one! :lol:

 

[4Ryan6]

Guys, God doesn't have a thing to do with this Ban Assault Weapons thread, at least stay on topic.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Its the old, sarcasm never plays well on the innernets thing.
Yes, I was joking, and yes, it is sad, but proves the needs of carrying a gun.
Other than hunting, it is the bad man making us do this, besides a sport, hunting or target practice.
So, to turn the screws down harder, and to omit from our history what our founding fathers made clear, and the follow up needs for such things, again proven in our history seems like people havnt a clue as to their rights nor history, and the reasons those rights remain.

 

[4Ryan6]

Unfortunately man gets corrupted, and that corruption is what is presently running our country, it wouldn't surprise me at all, if they were behind the shootings that are causing all this assault rifle ban uproar in the first place.

They've long since wanted to disarm the population so they can do what they want unhindered!

So if they actually did pull off this ban, where would those assault rifles end up?

Ever think about that?

 

[Crashman]

Unfortunately man gets corrupted, and that corruption is what is presently running our country, it wouldn't surprise me at all, if they were behind the shootings that are causing all this assault rifle ban uproar in the first place.

They've long since wanted to disarm the population so they can do what they want unhindered!

So if they actually did pull off this ban, where would those assault rifles end up?

Ever think about that?

While unlikely, it's amazing how many unlikely instances have occurred under this president. Take for example his administration's block on new oil leases that he finally promised to ease at the beginning of 2010...then within weeks of that announcement we had the 4-20-2010 Deep Water Horizon disaster and suddenly "fearless leader's" original position was "proven right". I even bought a domain name to parody 9-11 Truth, called 4-20 Truth (dot org). And the dot com guys came to my town shortly after 😛

But I didn't have time to run a site, so I offered my domain to Breitbart and Crowder, free. Neither one of them showed interest, funny how the right refuses to engage in those tactics...

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Never waste a good disaster I think is the proper term here.
Attacking for taxes, a tactic used by Clinton has been replaced by a attack thru rule regs andrandomness, the new three Rs, only if they apply to the constituency, thus at least keeping them riled, while leaving the door open for a later time of opportunity

 

[4Ryan6]

It's like watching a bad movie except it's on every channel, you keep hoping it will get better, but it just gets worse and worse, so you turn off the TV but it's still playing in your mind.

I think we all hope things will get better, and then some new stupid decision is made, and another side road is created to infinity with no resolution just more expense!

Sooner or later it's all going to come to a head, then what?

The answer to that question, I don't even want to contemplate, but obviously it's coming!

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

I tend to think of earlier civilizations, how they achieved a higher form of civilization, as perceived by the current peoples, especially the best known, Roman Empire, where they couldnt defend themselves, theyd become unable to, and vested everything in to their government, who themselves became fat and lazy, their only interests were of themselves

 

[4Ryan6]

Sounds Familiar!

 

[musical marv]

Interesting how you buy into the protestant rhetoric about guns, yet in deeper reflection on religion you fall back on your native american beliefs. Your being dishonest to yourself OMG.

He is being true to his own opinion.Why always religion is brought into mostly topics about politics and other serious issues?

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Hmmm, so, johnson, youre a protestant?
Or, not getting where the constitution says where we get our rights from?

 

[chunkymonster]

Some folks in this thread have tried to compare other countries and their gun control laws as a model for America.

It is specious and disingenuous, at best, to compare how one nation implements gun control as being an example for America. Ignorant of the obvious cultural, historical, and Constitutional differences between nations, holding American to the standards used by other nations is still a favorite narrative by the anti-gun crowd to further their gun ban agenda.

Hopefully, you will read the following article with an open mind but come to the obvious and ultimate conclusion that you can not compare the Constitutional right for American's to keep and bear arms to the gun control laws of other nations. I also hope that it puts this fallacious argument to rest; at least in this thread.

From Yahoo News, Around world, gun rules, and results, vary wildly.

The article compares three countries to America; Japan, Switzerland, and Brazil.

Regarding Japan...

"We have a very different way of looking at guns in Japan than people in the United States," said Tsutomu Uchida...In the U.S., people believe they have a right to own a gun. In Japan, we don't have that right.

Even the Japanese recognize an Americans Constitutional right to keep and bear arms!

Uchida said Japan's gun laws are frustrating, overly complicated and can seem capricious.

Surprise, surprise! Too many gun laws make it difficult for the everyday citizen to know what is or is not legal.

"It would be great if we had an organization like the National Rifle Association to stand up for us,"

WHAT?! Japanese shooters understand the value of the service the NRA provides to gun owners!

(Japanese) shooters like Uchida say they do not want the kind of freedoms Americans have and do not think Japan's system would work in the United States

Wait! The Japanese like their culture the way it is! The Japanese understand that Japan's gun laws would not work in America! It seems to me the Japanese understand and appreciate the inherent differences between our countries and would not change their culture and laws to be more like America! So, why would or should America change its laws to be more like Japan's? The ignorance and hypocrisy is palpable.

Regarding Switzerland...

Experts say Switzerland's low gun-crime figures are influenced by the fact that most firearms are military rifles issued to men when they join the country's conscript army .

Wait! The only way to get a firearm in Switzerland is to be conscripted?! I wonder how well it would sit with anti-gunners to be forced into military service?

Critics of gun ownership in Switzerland have pointed out that the country's rate of firearms suicide is higher than anywhere else in Europe.

This just proves the bogus anti-gun argument regarding suicide and firearms, if someone wants to kill themselves, they will find a way to do it, regardless of gun restrictions.

Gun enthusiasts — many of whom are members of Switzerland's 3,000 gun clubs — argue that limiting the right to bear arms in the home of William Tell would destroy a cherished tradition and undermine the militia army's preparedness against possible invasion.

Ok, Switzerland is a neutral country and it even understands that maintaining an armed citizenry is necessary to deter tyranny. This concept is exactly why the 2nd Amendment was written and flies in the face of anti-gun rhetoric. I mean, if a country as "evolved and enlightened" as Switzerland believes the threat of tyranny is possible in our modern world, then all the pro-gun folks in America MUST be backwards, ignorant, red-necks clinging to God and guns.

Regarding Brazil...

So how about a country that actually bans guns?

Since 2003, Brazil has come close to fitting that description. Only police, people in high-risk professions and those who can prove their lives are threatened are eligible to receive gun permits. Anyone caught carrying a weapon without a permit faces up to four years on prison. But Brazil also tops the global list for gun murders.

So, right off the bat, it is illegal for the everyday Brazilian to own a firearm

According to a 2011 study by the U.N. Office on Drugs and Crime, 34,678 people were murdered by firearms in Brazil in 2008, compared to 34,147 in 2007. The numbers for both years represent a homicide-by-firearm rate of 18 per 100,000 inhabitants — more than five times higher than the U.S. rate.

Wait a minute! If its illegal for the average Brazilian to own firearms, then why is the firearms murder rate FIVE TIMES HIGHER than in America? After all, if the people are already unarmed, then how could it be so high?

Violence is so endemic in Brazil...vast swaths of cities like Sao Paulo and Rio de Janeiro are slums dominated by powerful drug gangs

Oh wait, here we go, the murder rate is because of all the CRIMINALS! Just proves the obvious the anti-gun crowd continues to ignore, criminal do not care about the law!

Brazil wants more powerful guns in the hands of police...that could make things worse...police will buy weapons that they don't know how to handle, and that puts them and the population at risk.

So, Brazil's answer to deterring crime is to put more and more powerful firearms into the hand of the police. Even Brazil recognizes that more guns equals less crime, but they are failing arm the citizen and limiting ownership to only the police. Given police corruption and the prevalence of crime and drugs, the average Brazilian actually fears the police having more powerful firearms. So, maybe Brazil's problem isn't the amount and type of guns, maybe it's a culture of corruption and crime. Maybe Brazil's problem is focusing on the wrong thing, like banning firearms, rather than enforcing or implementing tighter border patrols, going after the drug gangs, and not promoting a culture that enables their citizens to protect themselves.

Three very different countries, three very different histories, laws, and cultures. And, all of them are poor examples for America to follow to reduce gun deaths committed by criminal's at large and violent mass shootings committed by the mentally unstable.

 

[johnsonma]

Hmmm, so, johnson, youre a protestant?
Or, not getting where the constitution says where we get our rights from?

I'm sorry, does it say anywhere in the constitution that our rights are derived solely from a creator or are you talking about the declaration of independence?

We the People of the United States, in Order to form a more perfect Union, establish Justice, insure domestic Tranquility, provide for the common defence, promote the general Welfare, and secure the Blessings of Liberty to ourselves and our Posterity, do ordain and establish this Constitution for the United States of America.

Sounds like our rights from the people.