Question Best/most cost effective GPU upgrade path for my system

[febisfebi]

Hello all, its been a while, but its good to be back!
I recently put all my best parts out of a couple computers I've been using for different purposes, into one system which I would like to upgrade the GPU on in order to have a decent gaming and multimedia PC for my 4K tv.

I'm not asking for top performance 4k gaming out of this GPU/system, but I wouldn't mind solid 1080p and 1440p gaming with nice 4k desktop and 4k video capabilty.
One thing to note. My TV/monitor is limited to HDMI 2.0. So 4096x2160 @ 60Hz is my max viewable output. So if we are talking about 1080p or 1440p gaming at extremely high frame rates will be counter productive, as I will only see 60 of those frames per second on my display.

Here is my current system specs as of today: If anyone has any suggestions that could open up performance bottlenecks for not too much money, speak up!
$300 is my absolute max budget for GPU and anything else. Hopefully around $200 or less. But don't want to compromise performance to save only a few bucks.
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CPU: Intel(R) Core(TM) i5 3340 @3.1 GHz

RAM: 16GB ddr3 1600 ram 2 sets of 4gb sticks. One set is limited to ddr3 1333 so I am aware that the 1600 might be underclocked. Seems worth it for double the ram though I figured. Comments?

GPU: To be replaced
Nvidia 8400 GS GT128 takes up 2 slots so I have at least that much space, could probably come up with 3 slots if neccesary.

PSU: Current Thermaltake 430w. Also have a Corsair 500w or maybe 550w in one of the cannibalized computers I use less often. I can add this to the gaming computer if neccesary, but I hate overkilling it in the PSU watts dept if not neccesary. (I do pay for my electricity, and half a KW is nothing to sneer at)

Storage: Sata 7200 rpm hard drives, several.
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I have considered in my budget, a small/inexpensive ~$50 250gb SSD for OS/games but GPU comes first, and I am pretty sure I will need an additional Sata III 6gb/s interface card right?
Is this really all that's necessary to take advantage of SSD speed?
https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-PCI-E...owGO&LH_BIN=1&frcectupt=true&autorefresh=true
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My Sata interface is described as:
7 Series/C210 Series Chipset Famil 6-port SATA controller [AHCI mode]
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My Pci Bridge is described as follows: (not sure this matters)
7 series/C215 Chipset Family Pci Expresss Root Port 1
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GPUs I am considering:

Budget $100-$260+ or so if neccesary for GPU

Toms Hardware GPU hierarchy is where I have gotten most of my comparisons.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-hierarchy,4388.html
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Option 1: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660 Ti
$260 - Ebay/amazon
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Option 2: Nvidia GeForce GTX 1660
$215 new Dont see much savings with open box/refurb on nvidia cards
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Option 3: AMD Radeon RX 590 8GB
$229 brand new. Could save $30-50 by going with open box/refurb, or slightly more pre-owned
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Option 4: AMD Radeon RX 580 8GB
$139 according to THG amazon link, no longer available it seems

I would jump on this in a second but it doesn't seem to be available at that link. Looks like I can get an open box/refurb for around this price or cheaper, and new for $180 still not bad, but enough that the higher end options take some more careful consideration, for only a few $$ more.
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These are the best performing cards I saw in my price range. I am not made of money, but I am willing to spend the full budget if they money is well spent, I will see significant improvements and my system can handle it. If i'm not going to see much or any peformance difference on MY system between spending $140 on an open box RX580 8GB, and $260 GTX 1660Ti, I would likely spring for the cheaper RX580.
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One thing to note however, Open box/Refurb options seem to be widely available for ATI cards whereas the Nvidia cards I saw there, had no savings for this option if you were to even find one. Refurb/open box(returns) appear extremely unavailable from NVIDIA cards/makers, at least the ones I am familiar with. Certainly the ones I listed.
This tells me that the NVIDIA cards are significantly more reliable, as their return rate has to be very low or they would be offering savings for such refurbished/open box options. Unless its just a marketing gimmick to make them look better.


Please help me decide which card to buy, and what kind of performance I can expect from my system once installed. If there are other things I should upgrade with part of the budget rather than spending it all on the most expensive GPU in my budget, please say something. I am open to, and appreciate all suggestions/information.

Thanks in advance!

 

[iiSt0rmy]

I suggest
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1060 WINDFORCE OC 6G
Its $234 and has decent performance.
https://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-GeF...RtXU-oGNlRjkSw&slotNum=2&tag=akshatblog198-20

 

[febisfebi]

I suggest
Gigabyte GeForce GTX 1060 WINDFORCE OC 6G
Its $234 and has decent performance.
https://www.amazon.com/Gigabyte-GeF...RtXU-oGNlRjkSw&slotNum=2&tag=akshatblog198-20

Thank you for the suggestion, I am curious how you chose this card over some of these other options? according to the video card hierarchy, GTX 1060 scores significantly below all 4 cards listed, yet costs almost as much as the GTX 1660 ti , and more than the gtx 1660. While the significantly cheaper rx 580 and 90 both which score significantly higher as well. I understand the overclocking could change things a little, but i'd have to wonder how much, as these other cards can be overclocked as well I assume.
https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/gpu-hierarchy,4388.html

Nvidia has always been my preference over anything from AMD as they seem more reliable. but I am guessing ATI has improved enough over the years to consider once again, if I am to save a bunch of money by doing it. In fact unless I get the feeling my system will be a huge bottleneck for a 1660/TI I am leaning that way, I especially like how the 1660ti has GDDR6 with 12gb/s transfer rate rather that 6gb/s GDDR5 all the other cards have.

If my system can't hand much more than an RX 580 I can get one of those for under $150 and save a bundle.

So really I am curious how these cards will perform on my system. I see how they stand in the hierarchy. Of course I want the best I can afford, but I don't want to spend money that's not going to help me that I could put towards something else, like an SSD or a game. What do you think? lets keep the suggestions coming! I am eager to start gaming again, its been almost 10 years since I did much pc gaming, so the sooner I get this figured out, the sooner I can get back at it!

 

[imoob]

I would get a rx 580. Theres no point getting anything better without upgrading your processor first. Plus AMD's driver support is incredible in the long run

 

[allin22]

Option 1 or option 4 , I would go with GTX 1660 Ti but only if is not a big expense to you. I wanted the Gtx 1660ti but it was to expensive for me so I settled for a Rx 580.
My advice: take time in selecting the maker (as rock, asus, sapphire etc) , I bought an as rock rx 580 phantom gaming and it was a garbage , small very loud in gaming and it started to have problems after 3 weeks ( no signal , pc freeze in games) so I returned it and wanted the gigabyte aorus version but it was kind of expensive so I went for the sapphire nitro+ and it's much better and no problems (only had it for 2 months tho).

 

[-Fran-]

Since you mentioned TV support and 4K, forget the nVidia cards as their TV support is always garbage compared to AMDs. Yes, it is; do not argue this as I've had plenty of years of troubles with nVidia and TVs whereas AMD has had none.

So, my vote goes to a good RX580 8GB, but not a RX590 as it's just a hotter RX580 and for HTPC duties you don't want a loud card. That being said, non-loud cards are not many for AMD, as they run hotter than nVidia in general for the same performance (they suck more power for the same performance points). The few that I know are not loud* are Sapphire's Nitro+ cards and Gigabyte Gaming series.

EDIT: Also, keep in mind you may need to upgrade your BIOS for any new card you want to buy.

Cheers!

 

[febisfebi]

Option 1 or option 4 , I would go with GTX 1660 Ti but only if is not a big expense to you. I wanted the Gtx 1660ti but it was to expensive for me so I settled for a Rx 580.
My advice: take time in selecting the maker (as rock, asus, sapphire etc) , I bought an as rock rx 580 phantom gaming and it was a garbage , small very loud in gaming and it started to have problems after 3 weeks ( no signal , pc freeze in games) so I returned it and wanted the gigabyte aorus version but it was kind of expensive so I went for the sapphire nitro+ and it's much better and no problems (only had it for 2 months tho).

Thanks all, ya'll have been very helpful!

I would buy the 1660ti but it is a lot of money for me, and I don't really feel like I have the pc for it. ok so it sounds like I should be looking for a gigabyte or sappire nitro plus rx 580. Any other quality makers that are not too loud? my pc is super quite now, would hate to have a loud droning sound while watching tv

Does ATI have better linux driver support than they used to 6-8 years ago? I have always used nvidia for that reason for the last decade, but I have only bought one high end card in that time and it was nvidia.

Any thoughts on the budge SSD ideas I mentioned?

 

[-Fran-]

AMD has had stellar Linux support as of late, in fact. The open source version of the drivers is as stable as the closed binary one and they actually adhere to the standards unlike nVidia.

As for the SSD. If you have money for one, by all means. And SSD really changes your "quality of life" using the PC.

Cheers!

 

[imoob]

I would get the nitro+ card as i have it and under load it doesnt go above 70 degrees and has a 0rpm mode when not being used. As for the SSD i'd get the Kingston a400 as ive used it in a couple builds including mine. You could also try running 2 in raid 0 if you want.

 

[febisfebi]

Great to hear about the linux driver support. I would have spent the extra for nvidia just for that reason back in the day.

For SSD I was thinking something I could afford with the money saved by going with the cheaper rx580. Just enough space for OS and games/important apps/anything I want fast access to.

240gb drive
https://www.ebay.com/itm/SanDisk-SS...A4AAOSwFqNZQbWu:sc:USPSFirstClass!98367!US!-1

Sata III interface:

https://www.ebay.com/itm/Mini-PCI-E...349093?hash=item2159abc125:g:x-UAAOSw5ZNcyXu3

will these two work together in a system like mine?

Thanks again

 

[-Fran-]

If you buy a sATA SSD, then you don't need any converters. Just make sure you have the extra sATA port in the Motherboard to connect it and that's it.

You have to have the sATA mode as AHCI (not raid nor IDE) and then just boot the system from it, if you want to make it primary; or normally, if you make it a secondary drive just for games or something.

Cheers!

 

[febisfebi]

I am having trouble finding an rx 580 8gb nitro plus or gigabyte aouros model brand new even for $200 and many creeping well above. This is getting dangerously close to the zotac or gigabyte 1660TI I can get for ~$259
Do I need a nitro+ sapphire, I noticed there is a "pulse" model as well made by them.\
Gigabyte. should it say AUORUS on the box or are all gigabyte rx580 8gb cards pretty much the same?

If you buy a sATA SSD, then you don't need any converters. Just make sure you have the extra sATA port in the Motherboard to connect it and that's it.

You have to have the sATA mode as AHCI (not raid nor IDE) and then just boot the system from it, if you want to make it primary; or normally, if you make it a secondary drive just for games or something.

Cheers!

no shit, so I can just plug it straight into my mb. I thought for sure you needed sata III 6gb/s to get the full benefit. I remember SATA being called sata 1.5 or something back when it first came out. Is that not neccesary, or do motherboards just come with the upgraded sata ports now?
I can come up with an extra sata port easily. If I would have realized I could get 240gb of SSD for $30 I would have done it a long time ago, haha.

As I described in my first post this is the output I get on SATA and PCIE:

7 Series/C210 Series Chipset Famil 6-port SATA controller [AHCI mode]
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My Pci Bridge is described as follows: (not sure this matters)
7 series/C215 Chipset Family Pci Expresss Root Port 1

Also how does one update their bios for these cards. Do the instructions come with the card, or do we have to venture into who made the motherboard and hope that they have an update compatible with this newer card?

 

[imoob]

For your upgrade path i would get the 1660 ti now as it seems you've found a good deal but your current cpu will be a pretty big bottleneck so i would hold of upgrading your cpu until ryzen 3000 comes out then upgrade to ryzen 1st gen cuz prices will drop. Hope this helps!

 

[DSzymborski]

We've also only touched on the PSU issue, but it's important to note that at a 550W power supply doesn't use more power than a 430W power supply; power supplies don't work like this. They only use the power they actually require.

Given that Thermaltake 430W power supplies are quite mediocre (if this is the "Purepower" one, it's a actually sub-350W power supply because of the rail distribution) and you'll have a fairly high load with a higher-end GPU, you'll use less power with a more efficient, better quality 550W power supply. What are the exact models of the power supplies in question?

 

[febisfebi]

@DSzymborski
Thanks for bringing that up, power is always an important topic. Thermaltake TR2-430 Is what I am running now. I had suspicions that computer psu's were smart like industrial dc drivers but I wasn't 100% sure, and I enjoy the quieter 430 over the Corsair CX500 (which is the model I posess. (it is indeed 500 not 550) I also came across while looking for that Corsair PSU, a OCZ-500-SXS along with an OCZ-700-SXS PSU in a pc which happened to have another 2 4gb ddr3-1600 sticks of ram, so I am now running all 16GB of ram at full speed, yay! Also came across a nVidia GT 240, which according to Userbenchmark is a 495% improvement over my 8400GS. So we're making big strides already, and I haven't eve spent a dime. I do still want to upgrade the GPU, unless I am just blown away by this GT 240. Doubtful. But now have 2 diffferent options for 500w psu's if necessary, and another 700w option also if necessary. Although I would like to keep the quiet 430w if possible.

@imoob As far as my upgrade path goes, I am unsure if I really plan on upgrading.... well like everything minus a case and psu any time soon. I haven't done much gaming to speak of in nearly a decade, and i'm not 100% sure it will stick as a habit this time.
If am to do cpu/mb/ram upgrade, I would essentially be building a new system, as I already posess many cases, psu, drives, etc. I would then need to then rob the GPU out of the current system which in this example would have been running a GPU that was not able to be fully utilized, and during all that time before being able to get the money and will together to upgrade everything else, new cards will come out for the kind of money we are talking about with these high end cards.
Don't take this the wrong way, I am just trying to demonstrate how my next step in the path to upgrade might not be 3 months from now, and could be 5 years from now, it just depends on a lot of things.

Now If I really get back into gaming, I might find that its a small price to pay another $300 or so to do the necessary upgrades to take advantage of the 1660TI for example, and in that case I would be really happy I spent an extra $60 when upgrading gpu, and the GT240 might actually suit this system better in that case to put back into this computer once its upgrade GPU is robbed for new mb/cpu/ram shortly down the line if that were to happen...
Choices, Choices...

I have been studying the bottlenecking chart:
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheet...lR9aAHxY5TVrDlu_rPK-X5oaafIPNXuAMM/edit#gid=0

So it would appear that the only category my CPU is appropriate for only the lowest category in that list. Which barely breaks the bottom end card on my list with its highest card in the category, Rx-580 8gb

So I think the 1660ti could be a good option if at a good price, which I could upgrade into.
Maybe some of you could help me with what a budgeted bare bones CPU/MB/RAM only would be like. Appropriate but not overkill for the ti. So I can get an idea of what I'm in for down that road.
@imoob I would like to hear about this particularly from you, as in how much it should cost now, and how much it could/should drop once ryzen 3000 comes out

However If I feel it more likely to keep this box the way it is, and build entirely new in the not so soon future, therefore taking the bottlenecking chart into account, what would be a good card that is not super overkill for this system that'll still get me some nice gameplay and htpc functionality. Even if it is not on my list I am open to suggestions. Those were just some examples of where I was looking. I realize I may have been looking a bit high up, but maybe not too far out.
Thanks again all for the help. 10 years ago I would've been the one helping you guys with all this stuff, but everything has changed so drastically in that time its unreal. Back then I wouldn't dream of buying anything from AMD. I had a Phenom 9950, I believe and it was terrible. My core 2 duo always beat it at everything. The so called "ATI" Cards back then had issues as well. So it has been a long time of Intel/nVidia no exceptions. It is refreshing to hear that with the ati/amd merger and a decade they have gotten their shit together and intel and nvidia have some real competition finally.


The box that the GT-240 came out of was running an i7 but upon comparing it in userbenchmark, I dont think I would be gaining anything with it, and more likely losing, plus I remember that box having some issues, which I would resolve if I thought I had something better than what I already have, but it doesn't appear so. Close, but not quite:
https://cpu.userbenchmark.com/Compare/Intel-Core-i7-860-vs-Intel-Core-i5-3340/m841vsm2710

 

[-Fran-]

Also how does one update their bios for these cards. Do the instructions come with the card, or do we have to venture into who made the motherboard and hope that they have an update compatible with this newer card?

You mean the BIOS for the GPU? Just check if there's any updates available in the manufacturers page and follow the instructions on how to upgrade it.

Also, don't bother about the word "bottleneck". You'd have to build something really unbalanced for that to be an issue.

Cheers!

 

[imoob]

Im not sure how much prices will drop once ryzen 3000 comes out but i know people will be selling their old used 1st and second gen chips for cheap once it does come out. Right now if you were to build a am4 system it would look like this:
MSI B350 Tomahawk: $64 (amazon)
Ryzen 5 1600: $79 (microcenter) or $108 (amazon)
Corsair vengeance: $69 (amazon,16gb) or $47 (amazon, 8gb)
In total thats: $244(max) or $190(min)
Add the price of your gpu($259) and thats <$500 in total if you were to buy the parts right now.
You could make this even cheaper if you use a a320 board(non overclockable)

 

[ElectrO_90]

If you go to this website
https://www.gpucheck.com/graphics-cards
You can put in your specs and then put in the card you think you should have eg 1660ti and see what gaming results you should expect

Also you may want to read this
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/r...force-rtx-2060-(249)2070-(399)2080-(599).html

 

[febisfebi]

Thanks all, I have a few more questions though
First off, is the 6gb limit on the 1660ti something to consider when comparing to cheaper cards that have 8gb, or is the gddr6 with its double speed enough to compensate the extra 2gb?
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I recently found some ddr3-1600 sticks which I had hoped to replace the 2 sticks I had that were ddr3-1333, causing all 16 gb to run at ddr1333. Turns out the 2 extra sticks I found are indeed ddr3-1600, but only 2gb a piece.

So the question is, whats better, 12gb running at ddr3-1600 or 16 gb ram being underclocked because 2 of the sticks are only ddr3-1333?
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If you go to this website
https://www.gpucheck.com/graphics-cards
You can put in your specs and then put in the card you think you should have eg 1660ti and see what gaming results you should expect

Also you may want to read this
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/r...force-rtx-2060-(249)2070-(399)2080-(599).html

well, so if I am to understand correctly these new cheaper versions of the 2070/2080ti, one of which would be and upgrade to the 1660ti for about the same price. But they said these should be release at E3 this year, which is in what like, a week? I can wait a week to see what happens, and I could wait longer, but i'd really hate to have to wait 6 months for this upgrade, which I would obviously rather have, since I am currently in the market for the 1660ti most likely. the other cards look nice, but it just seems like a dopehead move to save $60 or $70 and end up wanting to upgrade my gpu again, when I pick up some cheap amd parts after ryzen 3000 comes out.

Im not sure how much prices will drop once ryzen 3000 comes out but i know people will be selling their old used 1st and second gen chips for cheap once it does come out. Right now if you were to build a am4 system it would look like this:
MSI B350 Tomahawk: $64 (amazon)
Ryzen 5 1600: $79 (microcenter) or $108 (amazon)
Corsair vengeance: $69 (amazon,16gb) or $47 (amazon, 8gb)
In total thats: $244(max) or $190(min)
Add the price of your gpu($259) and thats <$500 in total if you were to buy the parts right now.
You could make this even cheaper if you use a a320 board(non overclockable)

I would be interested in being one of the people who will buy from those selling their used 2nd gen chips/mb/ram for cheap once the 3000 comes out. any idea when that will be?

@imoob
Check this out. It looks like i'm gonna have to do better than ryzen 5 1600 to beat my current system enough to justfify even a low cost upgrade. They are nearly identical with the ryzen 5 pulling slightly ahead, but the difference is hardly 5 to maybe 7 fps.

https://www.gpucheck.com/gpu/nvidia-geforce-gtx-1660-ti/amd-ryzen-5-1600/ultra?lang=en&currency=usd

https://www.gpucheck.com/gpu/nvidia...re-i5-3340-3-10ghz/ultra?lang=en&currency=usd

 

[febisfebi]

You mean the BIOS for the GPU? Just check if there's any updates available in the manufacturers page and follow the instructions on how to upgrade it.

Also, don't bother about the word "bottleneck". You'd have to build something really unbalanced for that to be an issue.

Cheers!

I am referring to your post #6 at the end:
[QUOTE="Yuka]
EDIT: Also, keep in mind you may need to upgrade your BIOS for any new card you want to buy.
[/QUOTE]

And on the bottlenecking all the tools point to me having a 30% loss in potential performance, but I am finding it would take a beast of a machine just to get that last 30%. I am guessing at least double the cost of the card. it takes pretty much a $300 proccessor to get those extra fps, add ram, mb $500+ easy. So this brings be to think that if I ever were to spend that kind of money I might upgrade the gpu also from the 1660ti depending on what is out at the time.
So given that this 1660ti may never see a faster cpu, should I still spend the extra $70 over the other cards?

 

[-Fran-]

And on the bottlenecking all the tools point to me having a 30% loss in potential performance, but I am finding it would take a beast of a machine just to get that last 30%. I am guessing at least double the cost of the card. it takes pretty much a $300 proccessor to get those extra fps, add ram, mb $500+ easy. So this brings be to think that if I ever were to spend that kind of money I might upgrade the gpu also from the 1660ti depending on what is out at the time.
So given that this 1660ti may never see a faster cpu, should I still spend the extra $70 over the other cards?

That bold part is the important part when talking about bottlenecks: the "cost of opportunity" in the context of what your money can buy. So yeah, like I said, don't even bother with thinking about "bottlenecks".

Anyway, you're on the right track here. Just get the best you can buy for now (within reason) and see how it goes.

As for the BIOS update I was talking about is because old motherboards need (sometimes) a BIOS upgrade to work with new PCIe 3 cards, for some reason. Just check the Motherboard manufacturer's page for the latest BIOS you can upgrade to, if you haven't already.

Cheers!

 

[febisfebi]

If you go to this website
https://www.gpucheck.com/graphics-cards
You can put in your specs and then put in the card you think you should have eg 1660ti and see what gaming results you should expect

Also you may want to read this
https://www.guru3d.com/news-story/r...force-rtx-2060-(249)2070-(399)2080-(599).html

https://www.tweaktown.com/news/6609...ed-geforce-rtx-2060-2070-2080-soon/index.html
update on this. Looks like it will be launched at E3 with Amd Navi. Three new cards will be rolled out. Lets hope they keep the pricing from the first post at $249, $399, and $599.
That would sure beat the hell out of a 1660ti for the same price supposedly. We will see very shortly.
I'm not sure which cards will be available at launch, anyone know how that usually goes? is it like a founders edition thing, or do third party mfg get all the shit ahead of time to develop their cards for rollout day?

 

[febisfebi]

That bold part is the important part when talking about bottlenecks: the "cost of opportunity" in the context of what your money can buy. So yeah, like I said, don't even bother with thinking about "bottlenecks".

Anyway, you're on the right track here. Just get the best you can buy for now (within reason) and see how it goes.

As for the BIOS update I was talking about is because old motherboards need (sometimes) a BIOS upgrade to work with new PCIe 3 cards, for some reason. Just check the Motherboard manufacturer's page for the latest BIOS you can upgrade to, if you haven't already.

Cheers!

Got the latest bios upgrade. I'll have to install windows before I can actually install the update. Its actually a gigabyte board that should have no problem with pcie3.0 maybe even without the update, so thats good.

Anyways I was wondering how EVGA cards are sound wise? I would like to use the step up program to possibly buy into this nividia super thing when it comes out, which I am not really keen on waiting a month plus for. At least I be able to get a cheap 2060 once they do come out though.

 

[-Fran-]

Got the latest bios upgrade. I'll have to install windows before I can actually install the update. Its actually a gigabyte board that should have no problem with pcie3.0 maybe even without the update, so thats good.

Anyways I was wondering how EVGA cards are sound wise? I would like to use the step up program to possibly buy into this nividia super thing when it comes out, which I am not really keen on waiting a month plus for. At least I be able to get a cheap 2060 once they do come out though.

That's good.

As for the EVGA cards, I don't have personal experience with them, but I don't think they're bad card; implying I don't think they're loud and of bad build quality. They also have the "step up" program, which they're famous for.

Cheers!

 

[febisfebi]

That's good.

As for the EVGA cards, I don't have personal experience with them, but I don't think they're bad card; implying I don't think they're loud and of bad build quality. They also have the "step up" program, which they're famous for.

Cheers!

The step up program is the reason I am considering buying one.
I am thinking just get a 1660 vanilla, for around $220 and then upgrade to either the 2060 which should hopefully be around $250, or maybe the 2060-super if it is not too much more. I like the step up program Idea as I am sick of waiting for Nvidia to release these new cards and stop just talking about them.

A while back you said that you would advise against nVidia cards
"as their TV support is always garbage compared to AMDs. Yes, it is; do not argue this as I've had plenty of years of troubles with nVidia and TVs whereas AMD has had none."

What sort of troubles? I have had an nvidia card (old one) running on my tv for ~6 months now with no issues. What is it about AMD cards that would be so different?
Thanks again!