boot problem with a built NF7

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Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.mainboards.abit (More info?)

About 3 weeks ago I built the following:

Abit NF7 v2.0 (not sure on version of BIOS)
AMD 2600+
2 x 256MB Kingston 2700 DDR Ram
ATI Radeon 9600 Pro /w 256MB Ram
Western Digital 120GB /w 8MB cache
POWMAX case /w 400W power supply
4 x 80mm case fans (2 in and 2 out)
off brand CDRW 52x24x52
Diamond modem
off brand 3.5 floppy drive
Windows XP Pro

Except for putting the CPU fan on the wrong way I didn't have any problems
putting the machine together. For the most part the machine is on 24X7,
it is sitting on a good surge protector. Saturday morning the box was
stopped,
the red led on the motherboard was on, nothing else. I've tried everything
I
can think of, resetting the BIOS, removing the battery, disconnecting
everything except HD and video card, different on/off switch. I can't get
the BIOS menu, no beeps, no nothing, the fans spin for just a second (or
less)
and then stop. I'm out of ideas.

If anyone has an idea I would really appreciate it.

Thanks,

Dave Schaeffer

 

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Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.mainboards.abit (More info?)

"Dave Schaeffer" said in
news:c4pa4e$2jfed8$1@ID-185100.news.uni-berlin.de:
> About 3 weeks ago I built the following:
>
> Abit NF7 v2.0 (not sure on version of BIOS)
> AMD 2600+
> 2 x 256MB Kingston 2700 DDR Ram
> ATI Radeon 9600 Pro /w 256MB Ram
> Western Digital 120GB /w 8MB cache
> POWMAX case /w 400W power supply
> 4 x 80mm case fans (2 in and 2 out)
> off brand CDRW 52x24x52
> Diamond modem
> off brand 3.5 floppy drive
> Windows XP Pro
>
> Except for putting the CPU fan on the wrong way I didn't have any
> problems putting the machine together. For the most part the machine
> is on 24X7, it is sitting on a good surge protector. Saturday
> morning the box was stopped,
> the red led on the motherboard was on, nothing else. I've tried
> everything I
> can think of, resetting the BIOS, removing the battery, disconnecting
> everything except HD and video card, different on/off switch. I
> can't get the BIOS menu, no beeps, no nothing, the fans spin for just
> a second (or less)
> and then stop. I'm out of ideas.
>
> If anyone has an idea I would really appreciate it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Schaeffer

Still could've been a surge. Unless you spend upward of $80 on a surge
protector, they aren't very good at protecting, especially considering
how users tend to interconnect equipment across surge protectors instead
of having it all upstream of one surge protector (two surge protectors
about 10 feet apart in cable length, even on the same outlet, could have
a 400V differential due to their impedance to a spike). Some have MOVs
on all 3 lines (ground-neutral, neutral-hot, hot-ground) which can cause
the surge to come back up the ground. I had a big discussion with a
w-tom (http://snipurl.com/5i2i) about this. He touts that surge
protectors are worthless and you MUST use a whole-home surge arrestor
but not all of us own our own house or building to be making
modifications to it (plus there's no good way to test them so you have
to replace them after awhile; they become weaker with repeated hits and
a test won't let you know how weak it has become, and the same for surge
protectors). So make sure ALL of your computer equipment is upstream of
a single *good* surge arrestor. The cheapies don't handle much of a
spike (joules) and won't tell you when they have failed to become a
simple power strip (unless you're around to smell when the MOV fried
when it finally shorted and then burned open or your cheapie unit has a
scorch mark assuming it didn't start a fire).

Start with the power supply. Might've fried from a surge. Might've
simply died (components usually fail very early or very late).
Disconnect the power supply from EVERYTHING - except one hard drive to
provide a load (but only on the +5V and +12V rails). Short PS-ON (pin
14) to one of the ground lines (marked "COM" in the diagram at
http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/power/atxpower.html). See if the
power supply stays on. With the power supply on, check the voltages
with a multimeter. Alternatively, you can buy a power supply tester
(http://snipurl.com/5i2a). The PowMax is cheaper but has separate LEDs
for each voltage instead of a single overall "Okay" LED of the Antec
tester. (Geez, at $7 I might find some more stuff to buy there to
include the PowMax tester to compensate for the shipping cost.)

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Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.mainboards.abit (More info?)

"*Vanguard*" <no-email@post-reply-in-newsgroup.invalid> wrote in message
news:LY2dnWKzqppy8e3dRVn-jA@comcast.com...
> "Dave Schaeffer" said in
> news:c4pa4e$2jfed8$1@ID-185100.news.uni-berlin.de:
> > About 3 weeks ago I built the following:
> >
> > Abit NF7 v2.0 (not sure on version of BIOS)
> > AMD 2600+
> > 2 x 256MB Kingston 2700 DDR Ram
> > ATI Radeon 9600 Pro /w 256MB Ram
> > Western Digital 120GB /w 8MB cache
> > POWMAX case /w 400W power supply
> > 4 x 80mm case fans (2 in and 2 out)
> > off brand CDRW 52x24x52
> > Diamond modem
> > off brand 3.5 floppy drive
> > Windows XP Pro
> >
> > Except for putting the CPU fan on the wrong way I didn't have any
> > problems putting the machine together. For the most part the machine
> > is on 24X7, it is sitting on a good surge protector. Saturday
> > morning the box was stopped,
> > the red led on the motherboard was on, nothing else. I've tried
> > everything I
> > can think of, resetting the BIOS, removing the battery, disconnecting
> > everything except HD and video card, different on/off switch. I
> > can't get the BIOS menu, no beeps, no nothing, the fans spin for just
> > a second (or less)
> > and then stop. I'm out of ideas.
> >
> > If anyone has an idea I would really appreciate it.
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> > Dave Schaeffer
>
> Still could've been a surge. Unless you spend upward of $80 on a surge
> protector, they aren't very good at protecting, especially considering
> how users tend to interconnect equipment across surge protectors instead
> of having it all upstream of one surge protector (two surge protectors
> about 10 feet apart in cable length, even on the same outlet, could have
> a 400V differential due to their impedance to a spike). Some have MOVs
> on all 3 lines (ground-neutral, neutral-hot, hot-ground) which can cause
> the surge to come back up the ground. I had a big discussion with a
> w-tom (http://snipurl.com/5i2i) about this. He touts that surge
> protectors are worthless and you MUST use a whole-home surge arrestor
> but not all of us own our own house or building to be making
> modifications to it (plus there's no good way to test them so you have
> to replace them after awhile; they become weaker with repeated hits and
> a test won't let you know how weak it has become, and the same for surge
> protectors). So make sure ALL of your computer equipment is upstream of
> a single *good* surge arrestor. The cheapies don't handle much of a
> spike (joules) and won't tell you when they have failed to become a
> simple power strip (unless you're around to smell when the MOV fried
> when it finally shorted and then burned open or your cheapie unit has a
> scorch mark assuming it didn't start a fire).
>
> Start with the power supply. Might've fried from a surge. Might've
> simply died (components usually fail very early or very late).
> Disconnect the power supply from EVERYTHING - except one hard drive to
> provide a load (but only on the +5V and +12V rails). Short PS-ON (pin
> 14) to one of the ground lines (marked "COM" in the diagram at
> http://www.hardwarebook.net/connector/power/atxpower.html). See if the
> power supply stays on. With the power supply on, check the voltages
> with a multimeter. Alternatively, you can buy a power supply tester
> (http://snipurl.com/5i2a). The PowMax is cheaper but has separate LEDs
> for each voltage instead of a single overall "Okay" LED of the Antec
> tester. (Geez, at $7 I might find some more stuff to buy there to
> include the PowMax tester to compensate for the shipping cost.)
>


I prefer a decent UPS preferably an APC for this reason. if you get hit
hard enough to surge past them you're going to know it from the pile of
smoldering charcoal on the floor......

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.mainboards.abit (More info?)

The procedure starts by verifying the power supply system.
That would be three separate component - PSU being only one of
those components. First you need the a basic and essential
tool sold in Radio Shack, Home Depot, or Sears Hardware; 3.5
digit multimeter. Procedure to verify power supply system is
"I think my power supply is dead" in alt.comp.hardware on 5
Feb 2004 or at http://tinyurl.com/yvbw9

Once that PS subsystem is verified, only then are you ready
to move on to other 'usual' suspects. But until the complete
PS subsystem is verified, then any other 'repairs' would only
be wild speculation.

From that procedure (read it first before understanding this
paragraph) and your symptoms, enough information should be
obtained to prove or disprove this as a possibility. Power
supply will provide voltages. Then it measures those
voltages. If any voltage does not maintain spec (see chart in
that procedure), then power supply cuts off power to all other
critical voltages and never provides a Power Good signal.
That would be why fan does, then does not spin. Question is
which critical voltage does not move up from zero? Which
voltage does not pass the test and therefore causes power
supply to shutdown? Again, this is why you buy that meter
that solves this and maybe how many other problems.

Some additional information. First those power supply
testers are only a Nogo tester. They cannot report a power
supply as good; only report a failed supply. Furthermore,
test of PSU outside of system means nothing without connection
to other two components of that subsystem. Don't waste time
with the tester. Get the tool as essential as a screw driver
- the meter.

Second, if a spike damaged the computer, then you also have
other damage. Did the furnace controls, or bathroom GFCI, or
dishwasher, or dimmer switch fail? If not, they you did not
have a surge. Surges occur typically once every 8 years.
They are that rare and would be destructive throughout the
house.

Its a new system. Infant mortality is a serious
probability.

Dave Schaeffer wrote:
> About 3 weeks ago I built the following:
>
> Abit NF7 v2.0 (not sure on version of BIOS)
> AMD 2600+
> 2 x 256MB Kingston 2700 DDR Ram
> ATI Radeon 9600 Pro /w 256MB Ram
> Western Digital 120GB /w 8MB cache
> POWMAX case /w 400W power supply
> 4 x 80mm case fans (2 in and 2 out)
> off brand CDRW 52x24x52
> Diamond modem
> off brand 3.5 floppy drive
> Windows XP Pro
>
> Except for putting the CPU fan on the wrong way I didn't have any
> problems putting the machine together. For the most part the
> machine is on 24X7, it is sitting on a good surge protector.
> Saturday morning the box was stopped, the red led on the
> motherboard was on, nothing else. I've tried everything I can
> think of, resetting the BIOS, removing the battery, disconnecting
> everything except HD and video card, different on/off switch. I
> can't get the BIOS menu, no beeps, no nothing, the fans spin for
> just a second (or less) and then stop. I'm out of ideas.
>
> If anyone has an idea I would really appreciate it.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dave Schaeffer

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: alt.comp.periphs.mainboard.abit,alt.comp.mainboards.abit (More info?)

The APC simply connects computer directly to AC mains when
not in battery backup mode. What kind of protection is that?
Furthermore, protection claimed by that UPS is same on either
side of UPS - plugged into UPS or into same wall receptacle.
Its called shunt mode protection. Makes no difference which
side of UPS your computer is connected.

It is only urban myth that plug-in UPS stops, blocks, or
absorbs transients. It does not even claim to accomplish
that. APC UPS contains same protector circuit found in
plug-in protectors. Again, read specifications. Both plug-in
protector and that UPS rate their protector in joules -
because both use same circuit.

Plug-in UPS provides same protection that a power strip
protector claims. Disagree? Then post detailed, numerical
specifications from APC. If they claim to provide that
protection, then numbers would be provided for both common
mode and differential mode transients. No numbers means no
such protection. Please provide specs for that UPS
protection.

Douglas BISHOP wrote:
> I prefer a decent UPS preferably an APC for this reason. if you
> get hit hard enough to surge past them you're going to know it
> from the pile of smoldering charcoal on the floor......