BTX and AM64

[juin]

I just saw something on X86 secret.

BTX form factor put the memory module futhers from the cpu.So does A64 intergrade controleur will still work.

i need to change useur name.

 

[Vapor]

Couldn't they just make one straight path and one semi-windy??

Ah well, it's a good thing that's been solved...[sarcasm]I would hate AMD to not go BTX. [/sarcasm]

BTX needs to go away and come back in 5 years.

Maxtor disgraces the six letters that make Matrox.

 

[Tavelkyosoba]

i think btx needs to go away and never come back.(make smeagol happy) there must be a better solution than btx, it just doesn't look like it has the potential it should...and im talking cooling AND expandability.

I've got a book of matches,
I've got a can of kerosene,
I've got some bright ideas involving you and me.

 

[TheRod]

If AMD goes BTX, they will probably change the BTX layout a bit. But, AMD will probably keep ATX for a while! Why change something that works well and it's so widely available.

AMD will let BTX mature so the transition from ATX will be smoother for their customers.

--
It's tricky to use words like <b><font color=green>AMD</font color=green></b> or <b><font color=blue>Intel</font color=blue></b> in a signature some users could think your are biased.

 

[juin]

For OEM that a others story.For them is just better.

i need to change useur name.

 

[trooper11]

why is btx better for oems?

 

[Tavelkyosoba]

it enables them to make a quieter computer for less money. it also improves case airflow to reduce thermal mechanicla failures-wich is a huge problem in OEM's(we enthusiasts have that fixed though)

plus, it makes their computers less upgradable so that customers will be forced to buy a brand new system from them every time.

I've got a book of matches,
I've got a can of kerosene,
I've got some bright ideas involving you and me.

 

[juin]

With the growing heat inside the case and non uniform distribution of heat.A new standart is need.BTX case will come only in high end case at 1 and with a premium.OEM who produce or buy million of case price will be the same for them..OEM might ask a premium price until all Computer sold come with a BTX form factor and not consider new anymore.

BTX offer better thermal dissipation for everyone.There is no reason for higher price.

i need to change useur name.

 

[trooper11]

and why was this whole btx craze started? becuase intel apperently needed it. heat has always been an issue, now intel needs a new form factor to help cooling and keep thier systems quiet, but that doesnt mean amd needs that as well. and really i think btx is not the best standard to be migrating to, it still needs work. as far as airflow goes, btw may line up the cpu for better cooling, but it isnt neccesarily better overall.

for instance, the new lian li cases in the atx form factor provide excellent airflow in a very unusual design, check out the pc-v1100 to see what im talking about. My point is, atx can work if case designers think things through like lian li did. this change doesnt neccisarily benefit consumers.

 

[scottchen]

Could anybody show me an image of a BTX case/mobo or whatever, because i have no idea what the hell they look like.

Oh wait there's the Coolermaster Stacker, but it just looks like an oversized ATX case?!

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[trooper11]

well the CM stacker is kind of an odd case. It is an atx case by defualt, including eATX, but it can be converted into a btx form factor case. i really dont consider it a btx case since its a 30 minutes- 1 hour chore to convert the thing to btx.

 

[Guest]

thats from a rather old THG article...explainin a bit about BTX
<A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040301/alderwood-01.html" target="_new">http://www.tomshardware.com/motherboard/20040301/alderwood-01.html</A>

Asus P4P800DX, P4C 2.6ghz@3.25ghz, 2X512 OCZ PC4000 3-3-3-8, Leadtek FX5900 w/ FX5950U bios@500/1000, 2X30gig Raid0

 

[Tavelkyosoba]

exactly! lian li started thinking outside of the box to make a better box. i think that before we switch to btx, or any other form factor for that instance, we should exaust the new layout presedented by lian li.

on a side note: i actually made a case that had the lian li setup a few months before they did. it works very well. and the possibilites are endless!

for instance, you could even have a water cooler's radiator in a completly seperate compartment from the motherboard and psu/drives.

with reversed airflow(back to front instead of front to back) the processor gets nice cool air all the time, lian li's desighn is much better than btx could ever hope to be.

I've got a book of matches,
I've got a can of kerosene,
I've got some bright ideas involving you and me.

 

[juin]

A pure lemming reply

i need to change useur name.

 

[trooper11]

and what do you mean by that? you cant deny the lian li case is a superb atx design that shows atx doesnt need to be changed, just rethough. there is no reason to force everyone to change over to btx at this point.

and as far as why intel pushed it, maybe it wasnt thier own chip's heat, but it certainly wasnt amd's heat. intel can market it how ever it wants, im just saying its not critical at this point and i think more thought needs to be put into btx first.

 

[scottchen]

Lian li cases honestly cost far too much, i like their server lineup, dual power possiblity, lotsa fans, but the price tag of 300-400 dollars is simply too much for me to spend just on a case without power.

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[endyen]

Juin's response was to your question, why is BTX better.
I will field that question, if you dont mind?
All components inside your case generate some heat. Much of this is spread, or diffused by the mobo. Some is released into the air. With the processor at the top, it has less board around it to take the heat. It is also the recipient of much of the airborn heat. With the chip in the centre of the board, it will be better able to loose heat to the board, and will be better able to access cooler air. The chip is the most important component, so it should be given priority cooling.
To all you gamers who have dumped a lot of money into your video card, kiss it goodbye, cause it's not that important. Now it's turnaround time. Used to be that the graphics card gave heat to the processor, but now it's payback time.

 

[scottchen]

Damn, but most of these new video cards are HOT!! VERY HOT if not hotter than the processors.

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[trooper11]

well oyu know id agree wiht that premise and i never said that a new form factor wouldnt be beneficial, but i think the btx form factor doesnt do ti justice. i think the case manufacturers can improve airflow and heat dissapation just as much as a new form factor can, lia li was just my example of where case inginuity can overcome a form factor design.

i think the problem is that the btx standard leaves alto of problems in usage and conflicts with hardware. for instance, amd is going to have more trouble then intel implimenting a btx standard with its memory controller. thats been discussed in other threads. while i think a new standard could help, i think there would need ot be a more drastic architecture change to actaully make things easier in the long run. why do we not see more btx cases and btx motherboards, becuase either they arent expecting popularity or slow adoption, or there are hardware issues to be solved. i dont know which, but i have a feeling btx may go the way of wtx awhile ago.

 

[Tavelkyosoba]

are you calling me a lemming?

Lemmings are cool man, they participate in mass migrations, and unlike other animals, let nothing get in their way...however they should let the ocean get in their way instead of trying to swim accross it...poor little guys.

I've got a book of matches,
I've got a can of kerosene,
I've got some bright ideas involving you and me.

 

[endyen]

Juin calling someone a lemming, thay is cute. Before they bury him, the will no doubt pry the itanics from his cold dead hands. Guess that makes him the foremost anti-lemming, guaranteed no-one else is going to follow that route.

 

[juin]

big computer might have around 500 watt to dissipate having a CPU that deal 100 watt or 10 watt wont change much.

i need to change useur name.

 

[Kelledin]

This is hardly a problem with AMD. It's a problem with BTX. BTX is nice, but the whole keep-things-in-line bit is just asinine.

At worst, though, all that will happen is mobo makers will just snidely disregard that requirement when making AMD64 BTX motherboards. Maybe put the DIMM slots on the upper/lower sides of the CPU socket. What's the worst that might happen if they took that route? Volumetrics requirements, at least, should still be within spec.

Hell, it might actually cool things *better* like that.

<i>"Intel's ICH6 SouthBridge, now featuring RAID -1"

"RAID-minus-one?"

"Yeah. You have two drives, neither of which will boot."</i>

 

[trooper11]

i dont quite follow your point....

oh your trying to say cpu heat doesnt matter...hmm yeah taht doesnt make much sense at all really lol, explain that further if you dont mind. and also, sense when hasa system had to dissapate 500+W of heat?

 

[juin]

Is not impossible but AMD or mobo maker will have to retouch the standart a bit.

i need to change useur name.