Bullcrap

[Fredi]

I guess it has become obvious that Toms Hardware is a safe haven for slack jawed low IQ Backwater states and British skinheads for the clu-clux-clan movement.

How else could a bunch of dumb as dirt white Arian trash get admin control on a website such as this.

I would have banned SOD right there.

 

[dhlucke]

I can understand you being hurt. I really can. I just don't think that was handled well considering I'm no idiot and I didn't know about it. I asked RC about it and he couldn't tell me anything either.

Obviously you aren't a Nazi. That much we knew. Then again, Sod wasn't calling you a Nazi in the begining. Things only got ugly when 4 moderators attacked him.

A user should be able to critisize and/or question that symbol. I find that perfectly valid. He didn't call you a Nazi in the begining. He complained about your avatar.

 

[RobD]

So? Proves nothing about me. Everyone knows how broad I speak. I'm not about to change.

What this little episode proves to me is that your little recruiting campaign, aided and abetted by Wusy failed, so now you turn your sights on me. Laughable.

 

[RCPilot]

You still don't have a clue!!!!!

You caused the entire thing by your inaction!!!! You wouldn't take my word & wanted to hold your power!!!! I told you then it would get ugly if it wasn't stopped & it did!!!!! Your the one to blame & no one else!!!

No, you caused the entire thing & still to this day think your above reproach!!!!

 

[dhlucke]

My sights aren't on you. I've tried to reconcile with you twice now.

 

[dhlucke]

He was attacked by moderators before that.

 

[dhlucke]

I wasn't going to edit or delete his posts for critisizing an avatar.

Sod has gotten out of hand & some posts need to be edited.... Sod is calling Rod a Nazi!!!!!

Well, being as your happy with his posts, no problem then...... We'll see how Rob feel about it.....

If it was in my section, I'd deal with it!!!!!!!

That was from you.

Here's from me:

I didn't see him call Rob a Nazi at all. He said the helmet was bad for a mod.

Now I went and read up on the German Iron Cross and Sod is right. I know that Rob doesn't mean to associate himself with the Nazi's but just like you're upset about what Sod said, Sod is upset about what he sees. Let Rob explain it and do what he wants.

I'm not jumping in the middle of this. I didn't even notice it before. I know nothing about it. There might be a history between Rob and Sod over this. It's their thing. I haven't seen Sod call Rob a Nazi.

I searched for the word "nazi" and didn't find an explaination from Rob. I don't really need one but if you want to argue that out in the open you should just go and quote it.

Here are sod's posts that you were talking about:

You got to stop crawling up RobD's ass man not a very respectable place for a U.S soldier to be found. In fact for anything to be found.

Guys a MOD with a NAZI helmet think about it.

Was reinstitued again by Adolf Hitler on 1st September 1939, in readiness for the Second World War.

Americans died in the millions and this ******* robD walks around with that trash as his avatar and he's an admin.

If any of you guys cant figure it the hell out.... that is your problem.

Nobody explained it until it had already gotten ugly. RC's response was that Rob's avatar was an avatar. Not very insightfull.

 

[RCPilot]

I'm not going to copy paste my posts to you in the mod section out here to show your not honest.... You lost that battle, so take it like a Man!!!!!

 

[dhlucke]

There they are RC. I just posted them. That's how this went down.

 

[RCPilot]

No they aren't dh!!!!!

Nice for you to try & pat yourself on the back though!!!!

 

[dhlucke]

RC. Those are cut and paste. I'm looking at it right now.

 

[RCPilot]

Well golley!!!!!! You didn't get them all.... Dang, only the ones you wanted to support you.... Your pathetic dh...

 

[dhlucke]

I didn't skip a post. That is how this started.

The next day you guys battled it out with Sod in the forum and attacked me in the moderator section for not deleting or editing his posts.

If you'd like I can post all of it.

 

[RCPilot]

You skipped the part where I told you Rob had explained his Avatar before... I told you I couldn't find it with the stupid search engine here.... Then you showed me a link that said it was a Nazi symbol, agreeing with Sod!!! I told you right then & you didn't take my word on that & let it go!!!!! Your fault Man!!!!

Now post that!!!!!!!!

 

[dhlucke]

You didn't make that comment to me. You made that comment to RobD 8.5 hours later. I then showed up again to see you guys all reading me the riot act an additional 5 hours after that for not editing, banning, deleting or something....

I disagreed with you guys on how to deal with that. I don't feel that Sod should have been moderated for a legitimate complaint about Rob's avatar. If you had heard the explaination before you should have told me what it was. You didn't. You guys then went in and attacked him rather than explain it and things got out of control.

Any time Rob!!!!!

I had heard your explination of the symbol before on the forum..... I was comfortable with it.... I couldn't get Sod to settle down in the thread & I couldn't do anything to slow him up.... I tried, but it didn't work..... So I posted here.... to get some help on the situation...... [shrug]

 

[RCPilot]

Nope not that thread!!!! The one you already quoted..... Funny, I can read it in the forum where it was actually posted!!!!

Spin you yarn somewhere else dh!!!!!!

 

[dhlucke]

RC, 15 hours after the fact you did mention that. You're right. :?

You've got the order things happened in all confused. I posted them above.

 

[RCPilot]

Your confused & trying to put your own spin on it... That was one of your big problems & still is!!!

Fredi said he would have killed it when I was posting to you in the mod thread...... You ignored that because it wasn't on your agenda....

No, I can plainly read what I posted...

 

[dhlucke]

Go look at the times. You're way off.

 

[RCPilot]

All I can do is laugh at you!!!!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[dhlucke]

Yeah, I guess that's the best you can do when you find you're wrong. I posted quotes above. I can post the whole thing if necessary. Others will decide on their own.

You make a big deal out of lots of small things. This is just another example.

 

[RCPilot]

No facts are facts, not your agenda.....

 

[dhlucke]

Would you like me to post every post? I'll be glad to do so. I'll let everyone judge for themselves.

 

[BigMac]

Reading this complete topic for the first time now, it makes me sad. Not angry, not cynical, not appalled, but sad. My apologies for making this long reply, I hope you can bear with me to read it through.

Whatever is following and however you are interpreting it, DH, it is not meant as an attack, it is meant as an illustration of how I came to my personal judgement with regard to your character.

I've read a lot of stuf about proving things, as we all know to prove things in this volatile environment is extremely difficult, where people can change content after posting it, and where quotes are used back and forth taken out of context, either by accident or by malicious intent.

My point is, I cannot really judge people here by content or actions unless there is 100% proof that can be validated. Heck, even if we can "prove" that posts were made from the same IP, then people can claim the log was falsified. So I'm not going to use that angle because it's been tried before and it failed.

I'm going by how I've experienced things here, what it dit to me and what I think it did to others, and how that made me come to a conclusion.

You make a big deal out of lots of small things. This is just another example.

To me it looks like you are doing exactly the same. Why is it so hard to accept a judgement call by the moderators that a specific signature is offensive, even if you personally disagree with that call? Aren't there grander things to worry about?

Perhaps there are bigger things but they are not explicitly stated?

I have wondered what all the fuss was about when Mozz left the forum, while you stated there was nothing unusual going on. People don't just leave when there's nothing going on. Mozz stayed after he got hit by Kathrina. He left after that incident. Maybe it was nothing to you, but it apparently was a big deal to Mozz.

For me personally the turning point was the following. In that topic where SoD went ballistic over Rob's avatar which, incidentally you can find here (and it was not hard to find either), you stated the following to SoD:

Appologize since people are seriously pissed off and that's about the only thing you can do to calm them down.

I challenged you there with:

This is weird and wrong. SoD should apologize if he feels he crossed the line and insulted Rob. An apology is not a tool, it is the expression of a feeling of sorrow. Don't bother with apologies if you're not feeling sorry.

You did not respond to that at all. Maybe you were too busy answering others, and this did not make a lasting impression on you, or maybe you deliberately ignored it because you had no come back to it, or you really did not understand the point I was making. Whatever was the case, it then became obvious, at least to me, that you do not worry about whatever methods you deploy to get to your objective. Any means is obviously acceptable for your personal goals.

Whether you publicly state what your goals are or whether you prefer a hidden agenda, the bottom line is, any means available is acceptable, and that is where you and I have a different opinion. I also have a preference for playing with open cards, agenda's on the table but I'm not naive in that fashion and I know that reality is often different and sometimes it will be harder to reach a specific objective when it is out in the open, and I can accept the fact that people prefer not to speak their minds if they think it will hinder them. However, if people find out they've been used, don't expect them to react favorably. People don't like to be used.

I also challenged you in the PHUK acronym topic, again I never got a response to that. Again you used someone for your own objectives, and again in my personal opinion a trivial detail that you like to blow up to gigantic proportions. Noone was having a problem with it until you brought it up. You hurt Phukface in the process, you did not care about that either (or did not think of that, just as bad in my opinion). Phukface actually took down a reply in which he stated he felt hurt (in the Smurf Village topic it was, I think, could be elsewhere), so maybe he thinks differently today. I hope you guys can talk it out and be friends again. But for me the damage is done, you obviously don't care about your methods that you deploy in order to prove yourself right, and to get to your objective(s).

I'm not going through all the trouble of trying to prove things (as I said earlier that would be kind of pointless), I just tell you how I've seen it and what it means to me.

If you could for once answer me on what I have challenged you on previously and are challenging you on now again, that might shed different light on things, at least it will give others, if they made it as far as here, that have read my observations so far, also the other side of the coin so that they can make up their own mind.

It is never too late to change one's mind, but it will take a lot of plausible explanations from your side to make me change mine.

I will also put this into a PM as to make sure you did not miss this post, however, if I only get a PM from you and not a reply in this topic, then I reserve the right to post PM replies on this post here (won't do it right away, but I'll notify you through PM in a day or two if you have not responded here before that time).

 

[slvr_phoenix]

Just to make this clear. I am feeling no guilt about anything.

If not, then why do you (and every other mod for that matter) keep turning my issue into something that I have repeatedly made clear I do not want it to be about?

If the public doesn't even know what is going on, then how can the public possibly give an opinion?

This is a far cry from public opinion is not allowed.That's highly debatable. How can someone be 'allowed' to do something for which there is no capacity for them to do it with? How can it be said that the public is allowed to give their opinion when the situations are repeatedly and intentionally handled without public knowledge thereof?

Apparently however, whatever is going on makes it into the public anyways.

1) Just because information is leaked in private does not mean that it is public. It just makes it less private. 2) Leaks of bits and pieces are not public access to the whole.

Please let me know at what points I was argumentative, confrontational, and insulting.

I already pointed out an example where you were being argumentative and confrontational. Obviously you just chose to ignore it. Which is no surprise really. As for insulting however, that comment was reserved for Jake.

I never threatened you with repercussions so why do you fear them?

Gee. Ned questions the rightness of a mod's decision and instead of you verifying that it was indeed a right decision, or even discussing it with Ned, you just instantly permaban and block his IP address. No, you're right. No reason to fear at all. Just disagree with a mod and get permanently banned. I can't imagine what fear could possibly be there. Ever heard of the phrase "actions speak louder than words"?

Actually, me to. In real life. However, again, this is not a democracy. This is a commercial forum after all, so there will be some one at the top at any given time doing the final decisions. And since they'll be always human the problems you see won’t go away.

I agree, to an extent. However surely a system with more open policies, a system for public opinion that can in the end be vetoed by the head honcho, and actually allowing user feedback without fear would be far more ideal than the fascism going on right now. And no, I don't use that term loosely. I mean it literally as a totalitarian governance to impose control over all aspects of life as opposed to an institution designed to protect collective and individual rights.

You once said you don’t know the solution and I guess nobody has the perfect solution, but one thing is for certain: we have a number of moderators in place and the plan is to have even more moderators. They all have the same weight in the decisions.

Clearly as I read DH's account of events, I must question the validity of that last statement. Nor is more militaristic power ever a means of protecting abused civil liberties. So forgive me for thinking that your 'solution' is only going to make matters worse instead of better.

There are circumstances that need immediate action. There's simply not the time to discuss them at length. If needed that can be done afterwards. We actually did that. That's good, right?

I've yet to hear you discuss them at all. You have your opinion and you're sticking to it. Heck, you're avoiding most of it. It could have been good, it had a great potential to be good, but no one is choosing to make it so.

I am open to reasonable arguments. I'll change my opinion if convinced by arguments. I've been known to do that.

And you're far more known not to at this point, and to overreact. The same with some moderators. Which is why it's so concerning that there's no system of checks and balances.