[cac] KMW Addition

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Our local group is considering having a Create-a-Clan tournament, and
with the release of the KMW set the additional trait of Red List has
been added to the game. We would like to incorporate it into the game,
but want your views on how it should be costed.

What does the list as a whole think the value of the Red List trait
bonus should be, from a CaC perspective? What additional provisos
should exist for the Red List trait?

From experience I would consider Red List as either a -1 or a -0.5 point
trait, and would likely restrict it to one RL vampire per clan.

Questions? Comments? Smart Remarks?

Derek R
 
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Derek Rawlings a écrit :
> Our local group is considering having a Create-a-Clan tournament, and
> with the release of the KMW set the additional trait of Red List has
> been added to the game. We would like to incorporate it into the game,
> but want your views on how it should be costed.
>
> What does the list as a whole think the value of the Red List trait
> bonus should be, from a CaC perspective? What additional provisos
> should exist for the Red List trait?
>
> From experience I would consider Red List as either a -1 or a -0.5 point
> trait, and would likely restrict it to one RL vampire per clan.
>
> Questions? Comments? Smart Remarks?


i would say -1,5 and allow up to 2 red list vampires per clan.

for more flavor : we can add a +1,5 feat which would be "this vampire
can mark a minion red list as a +1 stealth political action" and a +1
feat which would be "this vampire can mark a, untitled younger vampire
red list as a (D) action", hence encouraging the use of the news trophy
system in create a clan tournaments.
 
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> From experience I would consider Red List as either a -1 or a -0.5 point
> trait, and would likely restrict it to one RL vampire per clan.

Ahh yes, and minimum cap: 6

DR
 
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reyda wrote:
> Derek Rawlings a écrit :
> > Our local group is considering having a Create-a-Clan tournament,
and
> > with the release of the KMW set the additional trait of Red List
has
> > been added to the game. We would like to incorporate it into the
game,
> > but want your views on how it should be costed.
> >
> > What does the list as a whole think the value of the Red List trait
> > bonus should be, from a CaC perspective? What additional provisos
> > should exist for the Red List trait?
> >
> > From experience I would consider Red List as either a -1 or a -0.5
point
> > trait, and would likely restrict it to one RL vampire per clan.
> >
> > Questions? Comments? Smart Remarks?
>
>
> i would say -1,5 and allow up to 2 red list vampires per clan.
>
> for more flavor : we can add a +1,5 feat which would be "this vampire

> can mark a minion red list as a +1 stealth political action" and a +1

> feat which would be "this vampire can mark a, untitled younger
vampire
> red list as a (D) action", hence encouraging the use of the news
trophy
> system in create a clan tournaments.

I'm another player in the local group, and have been thinking about the
Red List trait. I had been thinking that it should be a -1 point trait,
though allowing 2 vampires in your crypt to have it. Using the 'per
clan' stipulation could give you 5 minions with it (2 main clan, 2
bloodline, 1 caitiff), though using the capacity 6+ would eliminate the
caitiff.

I had a look through a database to glean through the various vampire
specials, and pulled out ones that seemed to have at least 2 vampires
with it in common. Was wondering what people would think the costs
should be, and any minimum capacities.

The following specials would be further modified by blood cost (0 for
no cost, -0.5 for 1 blood, -1 for 2 blood):
Once each combat, may dodge as a strike.
Once each combat, may gain an optional maneuver.
Once each combat, may gain an optional press.
May make hand damage aggravated.
Once each combat, may gain an additional strike.

More specials:
May treat 1 point of aggravated damage as normal.
If an action requiring [Discipline] is performed successfully, gain a
pool. (Same cost and minimum as the Discipline special in the CAC
rules?).
Each Methuselah has [+/-1] hand size.
This vampire's controller gains +1 hand size.
Opposing vampires must burn a blood to block/end of combat.
Methuselah may pay a pool for an extra master phase action.
Vampire untaps after a successful [bleed/equip/hunt/political/recruit]
action.
Recruiting or Equipping cost 1 less pool/blood.

And was also thinking about adding some more negative traits, such as
-1 strength, intercept or stealth. Should the negative
intercept/stealth apply for all actions, or allow options for
directed/undirected? I can't see breaking it down further to specific
types of actions, as it would be too easy to build a deck that doesn't
perform the action in the first place (i.e. having no equipment in your
deck means no need to take equip actions).

I wouldn't mind more suggestions as well, as my scan of the database
was far from thorough. And probably don't want to get too detail
oriented, as it may become too complex for some players ... though then
again, it could increase interest, at least for people who like this
kind of thing, or like fine tuning their vampires.

Chris, aka Martin, Elder of Clan Tremere
 
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Proposal:

*******************************************

<Note: This section is to be appended to section E of the Discipline
special (a la carte) section of the "a la carte specials" link of the
"Create a Clan" page (http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/cac.html)>

Once each turn if this vampire performs a successful action requiring
[Discipline X] gain a pool. 2 points (min cap: 8)

*****************************

<Note: this section is to be appended after the "Discipline Special (a la
carte):" section of the "a la carte specials" link of the "Create a Clan"
page (http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/cac.html)>

Combat (a la carte):

Text of special is one or zero from F (as indicated) and one from G

If the total points for the combat ability is negative, the action costs 0
points (the negative portion is lost and cannot be spent elsewhere).

Once each combat this minion:

***** F ******

[blank]: 0 points
May burn 1 blood to: -0.5 points
May burn 2 blood to: -1 point

***** G *****

Dodge as a strike:
Gain an optional Maneuver: 1 point
Gain an optional Maneuver, only usable to go to long range: 0.5 points
Gain an optional Maneuver, only usable to go to short range: 0 points
Gain an optional Press: 1 point
Gain an optional Press, only usable to continue combat: 0.5 points
Gain an optional Press, only usable to end combat: 0 points
Gain an additional strike: 2 points (min cap: 8)
Treat 1 point of aggravated damage as normal: 1 point

<Note that I've omitted aggravated hand damage, I think it might be too
strong in a CaC environment, even if vamps paid out the nose for it>

*******************************************

<Note: This section is to be appended to the "More Specials" link of the
"Create a Clan" page (http://www.white-wolf.com/vtes/cac.html)>

While this vampire is ready the controlling Methuselah's hand size is
increased by 1: 1.5 points (min cap: 8)
While this vampire is ready the all Methuselah's hand sizes are increased
by 1: 1 point (min cap: 6)
While this vampire is ready the all Methuselah's hand sizes are decreased
by 1: 0.5 points (min cap: 6)
If this vampire is ready the controlling Methuselah may spend a pool during
her master phase to gain an additional master phase action: 1.5 points (min
cap: 10)
Vampires must burn a blood to attempt to block this vampire: 1 point (min
cap: 6)
Employing and Recruiting actions cost this vampire 1 less pool or blood: 1
point (min cap: 5)
Equipping actions cost this vampire 1 less pool: 1 point (min cap: 5)

**********************************************

> And was also thinking about adding some more negative traits, such as
> -1 strength, intercept or stealth. Should the negative
> intercept/stealth apply for all actions, or allow options for
> directed/undirected? I can't see breaking it down further to specific
> types of actions, as it would be too easy to build a deck that doesn't
> perform the action in the first place (i.e. having no equipment in your
> deck means no need to take equip actions).

Agreed. It's too easy to pick up free points if you allow too many things
that gain points. We are best leaving these out, unless we want to come up
with some pretty hefty qualifiers for when vamps can get them. It is
already possible to create some incredibly Über vamps under the current
system.

Alright, I'm ready to have these numbers criticized - I've thrown them
together mostly by instinct, and if anyone sees anything they think
over/undervalued please let me know.

DR