Archived from groups: alt.games.elder-scrolls (More info?)
hayes13@fadmail.com wrote:
> Michael W. Ryder wrote:
>
>>hayes13@fadmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>The Appalling Silence wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I think the main change should be to force the programmers to sit through a
>>>>computer programming course entitled "How to program a Game without making
>>>>it Freeze all the time!" (I've got the X-box version; I don't know whether
>>>>the PC version has the same problem or not. And I can't add mods in my
>>>>version - bummer, man!)
>>>>
>>>>Other than that, we need some randomness in artifact creation. Keep the
>>>>standard artifacts, but allow random artifacts to be generated as well (as
>>>>it is in most variants of the freeware Angband).
>>>>
>>>>Also, the dungeons seriously need a randomness in the treasures tied to your
>>>>player level. You get tired of finding huge amounts of treasure that would
>>>>be really exciting and useful to a player starting the game at level one!
>>>>When you're level five and beyond it's not even worth picking up. Finding
>>>>that the biggest thing in a cave is a chitin shield, when you're level 20,
>>>>is a big no-no!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>True, but seriously how many items will you really need at high levels?
>>> Once I got Sunder, I never used much of anything else. I had a full
>>>set of Daedric armor (ebony pauldrons) before trying the expansions. I
>>>still did like collecting sets of stuff to store at a house on a perma
>>>corpse. I had a full set of Ice, Daedric (reserve), Ebony, Glass, Dark
>>>Brotherhood, Her Hands (both enchanted off the guy you have to off in
>>>Tribunal and unenchanted), the one's the king's guard wore, Indoril,
>>>Andamantium, Snow Wolf, Snow Bear, and a couple others I thought were
>>>neat. I also had a full set of deadric, ebony, ice, and glass weapons
>>>plus tons of artifacts/powerful magic items. Not much more needed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Another out-of-balance factor is the amount of money. It isn't long into the
>>>>game when you're getting so much money you don't know what to do with it
>>>>all.
>>>
>>>
>>>I find it takes awhile to get enough gold to get as many skills up to
>>>the 90 range as you can (I believe on Xbox, only the armorer and
>>>enchant master trainer is missing). Enchanting items also cost a lot
>>>of money.
>>>
>>
>>That was one thing I liked about Arena. My character made it through
>>the game buying no training and having no items enchanted.
>
>
> I'm not complaining, just mentioning it in response to the guy.
> There's plenty of things to spend money on for the first 40-50 hours at
> least. Once maxed out and decked with great enchanted items, there's
> not much else to spend gold on, but at that point you're basically a
> walking god. One character of mine has something like 750K gold and a
> whole bunch of items stashed away in a house. At least in Oblivion
> they're allowing houses to be purchased.
>
>
In Arena, I finished the game with less than 10% of that amount in cash,
plus no stash of weapons and armor. The characters were essentially
mercenaries who only owned what they could carry on their back. What
little cash I could scrape together went to new weapons and armor, when
they were available, plus a very large number of healing potions.
Morrowind seemed more "Monty Haul" like in that enormous amounts of very
powerful weapons, armor, and magic items were available for the taking.
Plus the value of these items was so out of line as to totally ruin
the struggling adventurer mind set. After only a very short time I had
far more cash than I could ever use, even without using any of the loop
holes or mods.
>>Any
>>enchanted potions or items were purchased or looted, and finding an
>>ebony pauldron of levitation, for example, was a real bonus.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>I hate to say this but maybe there shouldn't be a Scamp or Talking
>>>>Mudcrab in Oblivion to give you the full value of the item. And when you're
>>>>whacking Daedra with a single blow, you can get as much money as you like
>>>>because they're weapons are too valuable.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>My problem is that the merchants simply don't have enough gold. I know
>>>you can abuse Creeper, but that takes forever to get a reasonable price
>>>for a 30000 gp sword. I also really hated weapon weights. A 60 pound
>>>sword (daedric dai-katana) is simply too heavy, and it really eats up
>>>your ability to carry loot. I guess it's a "balancing" thing, but in
>>>Morrowind, if you didn't go heavy armor, you were left behind.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>They took away the weight of gold from Arena/Daggerfall and eliminated
>>the banks, letters of credit, buying houses and ships. It does not seem
>>like a fair trade. They also added a number of new metals, Daedric and
>>glass among others, and took out others, such as mithril and elven.
>
>
> Mithril is coming back:
>
> http://www.elderscrolls.com/art/obliv_conceptart.htm
>
> Click the picture in the middle and right.
>
>
>
>>I
>>still can't figure out why they changed so much of the series. If they
>>wanted a new game, label it a new game, not a continuation of an
>>established series.
>>
>
>
> That pretty much defies their whole philosophy. The designers said
> they want to change things that didn't work last time or that the
> fanbase really doesn't like. They spend a lot of time talking to
> people interested in the game and listen to complaints. They heard
> magic was overpowered in Daggerfall, for example, and gimped it for
> Morrowind. Now they're trying to make magic more balanced for Oblivion
> since so many people found magic to be weak in MW (and they're mostly
> right, it had its utilities but you needed to invest a lot in
> melee/marksman to get through it). And believe it or not, a lot of
> people wanted more depth to the game rather than a huge map with
> shallow NPCs. Daggerfall had like 750K+ NPCs while MW is far more
> focused. They make changes according what they feel will make a better
> game.
>
My comment was based on Arena and Daggerfall which were basically the
same game in the same world. Morrowind is more like a alternate
universe than the same as the first two in the Elder Scrolls. Most of
the wildlife, vegetation, weapons, armor, and magic items are completely
different. Yet supposedly Morrowind takes place in one of the provinces
Arena takes you to. In Arena the artifacts were scattered across the
continent, rather than all on one island. The artifacts also had a
limited lifetime you could use them before they left for a new owner.
Not now.
I have no problem with Bethesda bringing out new games, thats how they
make their money. I do think a lot of people would complain if they
tried to make a Pirates of the Caribbean type game and called it and
Elder Scrolls game. Morrowind is Not a Elder Scrolls game to me as it
does not follow the rules set down in the first releases of the series.
> I liked Morrowind a lot. Played at least a few hundred hours of it.
> But I think it's time for a change and much of it seems for the better.
> The Radient AI system they're using sounds pretty damn good and it
> brings a random element to the system.
>
>
>>>>Randomness in some of the quests would be nice, if it's not too much of a
>>>>challenge for the programmers! Also, you sometimes fall through the scenery
>>>>in Morrowind - that needs to be fixed!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>The developers of Oblivion have said the Radiant AI will generate
>>>random quests from NPCs, like "go here and get me these three flowers"
>>>or "give this to person X here" while the faction quests will be far
>>>more involved. Some of the Morrowind faction quests were just plain
>>>boring.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"DeAnn" <diwan@mitre.org> wrote in message
>>>>news:1122585268.315034.270320@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I wonder. MW not only was a very impressive game that gave us all a
>>>>>lot of flexibility in how we roled played it, but MW is kept vibrant by
>>>>>all the user mods that keep coming out. I'm not sure the mods have
>>>>>peaked yet. MW_children, Wizard's Island and Constance--for
>>>>>example--have only recently come out. Want something a little
>>>>>different--then you can try one of the mechanics altering mods.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
hayes13@fadmail.com wrote:
> Michael W. Ryder wrote:
>
>>hayes13@fadmail.com wrote:
>>
>>>The Appalling Silence wrote:
>>>
>>>
>>>>I think the main change should be to force the programmers to sit through a
>>>>computer programming course entitled "How to program a Game without making
>>>>it Freeze all the time!" (I've got the X-box version; I don't know whether
>>>>the PC version has the same problem or not. And I can't add mods in my
>>>>version - bummer, man!)
>>>>
>>>>Other than that, we need some randomness in artifact creation. Keep the
>>>>standard artifacts, but allow random artifacts to be generated as well (as
>>>>it is in most variants of the freeware Angband).
>>>>
>>>>Also, the dungeons seriously need a randomness in the treasures tied to your
>>>>player level. You get tired of finding huge amounts of treasure that would
>>>>be really exciting and useful to a player starting the game at level one!
>>>>When you're level five and beyond it's not even worth picking up. Finding
>>>>that the biggest thing in a cave is a chitin shield, when you're level 20,
>>>>is a big no-no!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>True, but seriously how many items will you really need at high levels?
>>> Once I got Sunder, I never used much of anything else. I had a full
>>>set of Daedric armor (ebony pauldrons) before trying the expansions. I
>>>still did like collecting sets of stuff to store at a house on a perma
>>>corpse. I had a full set of Ice, Daedric (reserve), Ebony, Glass, Dark
>>>Brotherhood, Her Hands (both enchanted off the guy you have to off in
>>>Tribunal and unenchanted), the one's the king's guard wore, Indoril,
>>>Andamantium, Snow Wolf, Snow Bear, and a couple others I thought were
>>>neat. I also had a full set of deadric, ebony, ice, and glass weapons
>>>plus tons of artifacts/powerful magic items. Not much more needed.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>Another out-of-balance factor is the amount of money. It isn't long into the
>>>>game when you're getting so much money you don't know what to do with it
>>>>all.
>>>
>>>
>>>I find it takes awhile to get enough gold to get as many skills up to
>>>the 90 range as you can (I believe on Xbox, only the armorer and
>>>enchant master trainer is missing). Enchanting items also cost a lot
>>>of money.
>>>
>>
>>That was one thing I liked about Arena. My character made it through
>>the game buying no training and having no items enchanted.
>
>
> I'm not complaining, just mentioning it in response to the guy.
> There's plenty of things to spend money on for the first 40-50 hours at
> least. Once maxed out and decked with great enchanted items, there's
> not much else to spend gold on, but at that point you're basically a
> walking god. One character of mine has something like 750K gold and a
> whole bunch of items stashed away in a house. At least in Oblivion
> they're allowing houses to be purchased.
>
>
In Arena, I finished the game with less than 10% of that amount in cash,
plus no stash of weapons and armor. The characters were essentially
mercenaries who only owned what they could carry on their back. What
little cash I could scrape together went to new weapons and armor, when
they were available, plus a very large number of healing potions.
Morrowind seemed more "Monty Haul" like in that enormous amounts of very
powerful weapons, armor, and magic items were available for the taking.
Plus the value of these items was so out of line as to totally ruin
the struggling adventurer mind set. After only a very short time I had
far more cash than I could ever use, even without using any of the loop
holes or mods.
>>Any
>>enchanted potions or items were purchased or looted, and finding an
>>ebony pauldron of levitation, for example, was a real bonus.
>>
>>
>>
>>>>I hate to say this but maybe there shouldn't be a Scamp or Talking
>>>>Mudcrab in Oblivion to give you the full value of the item. And when you're
>>>>whacking Daedra with a single blow, you can get as much money as you like
>>>>because they're weapons are too valuable.
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>My problem is that the merchants simply don't have enough gold. I know
>>>you can abuse Creeper, but that takes forever to get a reasonable price
>>>for a 30000 gp sword. I also really hated weapon weights. A 60 pound
>>>sword (daedric dai-katana) is simply too heavy, and it really eats up
>>>your ability to carry loot. I guess it's a "balancing" thing, but in
>>>Morrowind, if you didn't go heavy armor, you were left behind.
>>>
>>>
>>
>>They took away the weight of gold from Arena/Daggerfall and eliminated
>>the banks, letters of credit, buying houses and ships. It does not seem
>>like a fair trade. They also added a number of new metals, Daedric and
>>glass among others, and took out others, such as mithril and elven.
>
>
> Mithril is coming back:
>
> http://www.elderscrolls.com/art/obliv_conceptart.htm
>
> Click the picture in the middle and right.
>
>
>
>>I
>>still can't figure out why they changed so much of the series. If they
>>wanted a new game, label it a new game, not a continuation of an
>>established series.
>>
>
>
> That pretty much defies their whole philosophy. The designers said
> they want to change things that didn't work last time or that the
> fanbase really doesn't like. They spend a lot of time talking to
> people interested in the game and listen to complaints. They heard
> magic was overpowered in Daggerfall, for example, and gimped it for
> Morrowind. Now they're trying to make magic more balanced for Oblivion
> since so many people found magic to be weak in MW (and they're mostly
> right, it had its utilities but you needed to invest a lot in
> melee/marksman to get through it). And believe it or not, a lot of
> people wanted more depth to the game rather than a huge map with
> shallow NPCs. Daggerfall had like 750K+ NPCs while MW is far more
> focused. They make changes according what they feel will make a better
> game.
>
My comment was based on Arena and Daggerfall which were basically the
same game in the same world. Morrowind is more like a alternate
universe than the same as the first two in the Elder Scrolls. Most of
the wildlife, vegetation, weapons, armor, and magic items are completely
different. Yet supposedly Morrowind takes place in one of the provinces
Arena takes you to. In Arena the artifacts were scattered across the
continent, rather than all on one island. The artifacts also had a
limited lifetime you could use them before they left for a new owner.
Not now.
I have no problem with Bethesda bringing out new games, thats how they
make their money. I do think a lot of people would complain if they
tried to make a Pirates of the Caribbean type game and called it and
Elder Scrolls game. Morrowind is Not a Elder Scrolls game to me as it
does not follow the rules set down in the first releases of the series.
> I liked Morrowind a lot. Played at least a few hundred hours of it.
> But I think it's time for a change and much of it seems for the better.
> The Radient AI system they're using sounds pretty damn good and it
> brings a random element to the system.
>
>
>>>>Randomness in some of the quests would be nice, if it's not too much of a
>>>>challenge for the programmers! Also, you sometimes fall through the scenery
>>>>in Morrowind - that needs to be fixed!
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>The developers of Oblivion have said the Radiant AI will generate
>>>random quests from NPCs, like "go here and get me these three flowers"
>>>or "give this to person X here" while the faction quests will be far
>>>more involved. Some of the Morrowind faction quests were just plain
>>>boring.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>>"DeAnn" <diwan@mitre.org> wrote in message
>>>>news:1122585268.315034.270320@g43g2000cwa.googlegroups.com...
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>>I wonder. MW not only was a very impressive game that gave us all a
>>>>>lot of flexibility in how we roled played it, but MW is kept vibrant by
>>>>>all the user mods that keep coming out. I'm not sure the mods have
>>>>>peaked yet. MW_children, Wizard's Island and Constance--for
>>>>>example--have only recently come out. Want something a little
>>>>>different--then you can try one of the mechanics altering mods.
>>>>>
>>>>>Thoughts?
>>>>>
>>>
>>>
>
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