Challenging FPS: Testing SLI And CrossFire Using Video Capture

[bystander]

[citation][nom]Onus[/nom]So, are AMD engineers crying foul, are they scratching their heads, or did they just fill their pants?[/citation]
Here is an article that was written this week, interviewing the AMD driver guy for single GPU configurations. They are aware of the problem, they weren't aware of it until it was brought to their attention, but are now trying to fix it. They have a target date for July, for fixing Crossfire issues.

http://www.anandtech.com/show/6857/amd-stuttering-issue

 

[17seconds]

[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]Here is some video on another site that is doing the same thing today: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graph [...] nce-Tes-10[/citation]
That PCPer review goes extensively into VSync testing for those who were looking for that.

 

[nukemaster]

[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]Here is some video on another site that is doing the same thing today: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graph [...] nce-Tes-10[/citation]
That PCPer review goes extensively into VSync testing for those who were looking for that.

I saw that
Thanks.

 

[bystander]

[citation][nom]matto17secs[/nom]That PCPer review goes extensively into VSync testing for those who were looking for that.[/citation]
Well, it looks at one game, but I believe they intend to release more thorough results in the next week or two. They mentioned this was only part of their results. It was also limited to 60hz, but they will be doing 120hz soon, if I recall correctly.

 

[17seconds]

Here's the link:
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Rating-Dissected-Full-Details-Capture-based-Graphics-Performance-Tes-11

 

[mikenygmail]

Nvidiots, rejoice!

 

[roast_pork]

None of it really matters as long as one can play the latest games at the resolutiion you want. Who cares if one card is faster than another as long as it is able to play the game, and make use of all the latest visual gehaws. Duh.
Now once you start considering price, and temperature, and watts of electricity used, one has a reason to pick one over another.

 

[bystander]

[citation][nom]roast_pork[/nom]None of it really matters as long as one can play the latest games at the resolutiion you want. Who cares if one card is faster than another as long as it is able to play the game, and make use of all the latest visual gehaws. Duh.Now once you start considering price, and temperature, and watts of electricity used, one has a reason to pick one over another.[/citation]
I thought the point was getting the best experience you can, and for most people, the cost as well.

I personally would rather play the game with a better experience, than just play the game with a less enjoyable experience. This is double an issue for me, as these things cause me simulator sickness.

 

[roast_pork]

Bystander, exactly if you get the same experience from both cards does it matter if one is a little faster in freame rates, than another, no; what matters is the quality and price, and who has the best drivers, to deliver the best experience, I personally think AMD has a better record as far as drivers go. I use both Nvidia and AMD in my machines. (not in the same machines)

 

[Souv_90]

i always use radeon pro for long time and great gaming experience for me with radeon....
a freeware named radeon pro will mitigate most of latency issues...Tom's has tested that on one of previous benches

 

[bystander]

[citation][nom]roast_pork[/nom]Bystander, exactly if you get the same experience from both cards does it matter if one is a little faster in freame rates, than another, no; what matters is the quality and price, and who has the best drivers, to deliver the best experience, I personally think AMD has a better record as far as drivers go. I use both Nvidia and AMD in my machines. (not in the same machines)[/citation]

The point of the article is to help us know what gives the best experience before we buy a card. They are showing new methods to compare, rather than the raw FPS that was used in the past, as there is more to your experience than a number.

I've used a lot of cards from both sides. I tend to have to fuss around with AMD/ATI drivers a lot more, but I can get them to work, it just takes more effort.

 

[ingtar33]

Great review. Looks like Practical FPS is a better indicator of performance. I would love to see a Vsync analysis as well, since I play with it on in a lot of older games to eliminate screen tearing.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Rating-Dissected-Full-Details-Capture-based-Graphics-Performance-Testin

That link test with vsync... vsync eliminates a number/most of the radeon xfire issues.

frankly that article is excellent and answered a number of my lingering questions about this testing methodology.

 

[jessterman21]

Great review. Looks like Practical FPS is a better indicator of performance. I would love to see a Vsync analysis as well, since I play with it on in a lot of older games to eliminate screen tearing.

http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Rating-Dissected-Full-Details-Capture-based-Graphics-Performance-Testin

That link test with vsync... vsync eliminates a number/most of the radeon xfire issues.

frankly that article is excellent and answered a number of my lingering questions about this testing methodology.

That was a long one, though much more thorough than Tom's. Silly to use Vsync unless you're running above 60fps 90% of the time. Then it's a must, IMO. Well, except for multi. But that's when you crank the game to low and turn off all antialiasing anyway, so a little frame tearing isn't going to bother anyone.

 

[masterofevil22]

This is an absurd comparison...not That absurd...but they should still be doing the 660ti vs the 7950...I got my 7950 last week on newegg for 269...that's lower than any of the 660ti's on there.

The 7870 is a scratch over 200 bucks....

 

[bystander]

[citation][nom]masterofevil22[/nom]This is an absurd comparison...not That absurd...but they should still be doing the 660ti vs the 7950...I got my 7950 last week on newegg for 269...that's lower than any of the 660ti's on there.The 7870 is a scratch over 200 bucks....[/citation]
The good news is that they are not seeing many problems with single GPU configurations anymore. The problems are in Crossfire, so don't even worry.

 

[godfather666]

Very interesting article, thanks.

 

[ericjohn004]

Wow, very interesting. This just reminds me of why I chose Nvidia for my main rig. Typically you pay for what you get. Nvidia also has a lot more money than AMD has to throw around fixing every little thing and making things perfect.

I do own an AMD 7870LE Powercolor Myst Edition. So I'm not biased. The 660 Ti is in my main rig. I bought the cheaper AMD card for my secondary. It performs almost on par with my 660 Ti at the settings I play at, but it's hotter, consumes more power, it's louder, and it's not built as good as my EVGA 660Ti. So you pay for what you get. Maybe if they used a 7950 it would have "won" more of the benchmarks but I'm sure it would still have just as many dropped and runt frames.

 

[Memnarchon]

Before 22 days (at the Crysis 3 comments) I was asking if you will do the test you did today. You said that it was a work in progress. Thank you for keeping your promise

 

[17seconds]

[citation][nom]masterofevil22[/nom]This is an absurd comparison...not That absurd...but they should still be doing the 660ti vs the 7950...I got my 7950 last week on newegg for 269...that's lower than any of the 660ti's on there.The 7870 is a scratch over 200 bucks....[/citation]
[citation][nom]BigMack70[/nom]It's not an absurd comparison... Toms has always had the 7870 and 660ti as equivalent cards.Rather or not you agree is a different story, but Toms is just being consistent with their previous conclusions and results. I don't know why people are upset about this.http://www.tomshardware.com/review [...] 107-7.html[/citation]
Tom's use of 5 gaming benchmarks, one of which is F1, really makes their reviews unreliable. It's often the case that their results stand apart from other review sites that draw conclusions based upon a wider sample of benchmarks.

Thankfully, these new testing methods may bring about some other performance metric besides FPS to gauge what we all want... the smoothest gameplay possible. Unfortunately, people tend to treat FPS like a basketball game; if one team wins by 1 or 2 points, then they won the contest. There's a lot more to it than that of course.

 

[bystander]

I'm not really sure it matters. The focus of the article is how Crossfire and SLI are performing, and it does a good job at showing that, though pcper.com has a more in depth picture, but THG does plan to give us more soon. It sounds like they had a system setup problem that caused them to lose a lot of time and data.

 

[777iceman777]

660ti should be up against 7950 non boost editions what a bias article heaping praise on Nvidia while smashing AMD. You know full well Toms that fraps is now a poor reference for frame stuttering. And this is an attempt you to say yer we know its is however we are still right to bash AMD products in the first place. This article reminds me of Garry Kasparov and IBMs Deep Blue.

 

[cravin]

Wow a 7950 for $269. That is an amazing deal. Plus the crysis 3 free (or did that end?) and the other free game.
I got my 660 ti from newegg for $230 plus the $150 f2p coupon, but I'd much rather have a 7950 at that price

 

[bystander]

660ti should be up against 7950 non boost editions what a bias article heaping praise on Nvidia while smashing AMD. You know full well Toms that fraps is now a poor reference for frame stuttering. And this is an attempt you to say yer we know its is however we are still right to bash AMD products in the first place. This article reminds me of Garry Kasparov and IBMs Deep Blue.

You should read some of the other versions of this article. Here are two using the 7970 and 680 to compare SLI and Crossfire:
http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Rating-Dissected-Full-Details-Capture-based-Graphics-Performance-Tes-12
http://techreport.com/review/24553/inside-the-second-with-nvidia-frame-capture-tools/11

Here is another with an interview with an AMD driver representative:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/6857/amd-stuttering-issue

There is nothing biased about it and it isn't about comparing a particular card, but about comparing SLI vs Crossfire.

 

[thanny]

There's a huge conceptual problem with this entire test. Everything smaller than the entire screen is a "runt" frame, and is the price you pay for not using vsync. The "practical" frame rate is always no larger than the screen refresh rate.

Turn on vsync, and every frame is complete, which makes the rendering rate identical to the practical rate.

 

[777iceman777]

Nope sorry fraps has been used for purposes for which it is not designed this has been shown by AMD and backed up by Nvidia, now the industry is in damage control. This was a knee jerk article. This goes far beyond just gpu comparisons as fraps has been used against cpus such as the FX 8350 as well a dual core and quad core system from both sides.