Challenging FPS: Testing SLI And CrossFire Using Video Capture

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[citation][nom]bystander[/nom]Pcper.com has finally released their results as well: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graph [...] nce-TestinThey compare 7970's and 680's, for those who wanted a more fair comparison.[/citation]

How is that a more fair comparison? It'll be nice to read another perspective, especially with different cards and even more especially since they're cards that are more likely to be used in such configurations right now IMO, but fairness doesn't seem impacted.
 
[citation][nom]bwcbwc[/nom]I don't go quite as far in questioning nVidia's design of the FCAT tool as deliberately biased against AMD. But the fact that almost every test shows a wider disparity in the AMD configuration makes me wonder if nVidia did have issues coding for the AMD architecture. I await a similar tool from AMD or a neutral party for comparison.On the other hand, this could simply be an issue with Crossfire data interchange vs. SLI and the fact that the 7870 is inherently slightly less powerful than the 660 Ti.[/citation]

I don't believe a difference in gpu arch makes a difference. Anandtech had a great article yesterday explaining the flaws with fraps and went into specific detail over several pages in stead of a few paragraphs with one graphic:

You'll see that the gpu is just a link in the chain of events and that nothing in the pipeline within the gpu is getting measured. They also have an article today of using FCAT:


By reading both it should lay to rest any paranoia people seem to be expressing with using a procedure that nVidia has been using for years to avoid the issues AMD has been admittedly having for years. Really talk about looking a gift horse in the mouth.
 
[citation][nom]ibjeepr[/nom]So what effect would running VirutMVP have on this testing method?My understanding is that it eliminates the dropped on runt frames from ever being generated and freeing up the GPU power assiciated with each frame. Would this just even out the lines between hardware and experienced FPS or would this generate an actual improvement in experienced FPS?I've tried VirtuMVP and either didn't do it right or it didn't have any real effect. Based on this testing method it sounds like it would go hand in hand with it.[/citation]

That's a great question. I'd like to see this tested with virtual V-Sync to see if anything changes.
 
[citation][nom]cangelini[/nom]And actually, it'd be nice to see someone like Beepa incorporate the overlay functionality, taking Nvidia out of the equation.[/citation]

I am with this sentiment, a independent neutral party needs this kind of data capture technology, while it remains a Nvidia exclusive it lends itself to mala fides particularly the accuracy of measuring competitors parts. Things like software implementation is critical to, Nvidia make it exclusively for its own like so all software and firmware is tailored for Nvidia.

I don't question the method and principle but will refrain from accepting this as trite on the pure bases that this can be a benchmarketing tool.
 
[citation][nom]blazorthon[/nom]How is that a more fair comparison? It'll be nice to read another perspective, especially with different cards and even more especially since they're cards that are more likely to be used in such configurations right now IMO, but fairness doesn't seem impacted.[/citation]
At least one poster was complaining that the 660ti was used against the 7870. Pcper uses the two top in cards for each company.

I personally don't think it mattered for what is being compared, but some were complaining.

It also goes a lot more in depth with the issue.
 
FRAPS takes its measurement in the pipeline well before the drivers/GPU portion. That is also where the overlay inserts its bar. It should be intuitively obvious that doing it here is vendor-neutral, UNLESS you're prepared to argue that nVidia's drivers are looking for those bars to come down the pipeline and is handling frames containing them differently.
...which ALSO points to a way to handle runts, but would introduce problems of its own, like additional lag between t_game and t_display. If the driver can measure that bar and adjust how long the frame is displayed, runts could be "grown" to normal length. Might something like this be how adaptive vsync works?
 


Adaptive V-Sync just dynamically disables and enables V-Sync at certain FPS points to reduce performance impact at the cost of not not fixing tearing below a certain point, usually 60FPS. What you described is more likely to be a possibility for virtual V-Sync IMO, if anything.
 
So you got all this data but not one example of what the numbers really mean.

Lets say you can identify in your data a place in the render where this are not so smooth...what does that look like? Can you play a video example?

I'd like to see a blind test if ppl can pick the video that has the issue. If they cant to a significant degree then you got a worthless new tool.

 
[citation][nom]loops[/nom]So you got all this data but not one example of what the numbers really mean.Lets say you can identify in your data a place in the render where things are not so smooth...what does that look like? Can you play a video example?I'd like to see a blind test if ppl can pick the video that has the issue. If they cant to a significant degree then you got a worthless new tool.[/citation]

Here is some video on another site that is doing the same thing today: http://www.pcper.com/reviews/Graphics-Cards/Frame-Rating-Dissected-Full-Details-Capture-based-Graphics-Performance-Tes-10
 
What I find exceptional is, not that nVidia created this tool, or shows their previous works and success in this direction, but the fact it isnt for end users, and it gives them 1 more opportunity to hit the press.
I think everyone should be able to see this, dont you?
Especially at a time where the competition is starting to change the scenery, both in this direction as well as others.
That being said, cudos to nVidia for their lead here, tho it may not last, they are getting their mileage out of it
 
[citation][nom]JAYDEEJOHN[/nom]What I find exceptional is, not that nVidia created this tool, or shows their previous works and success in this direction, but the fact it isnt for end users, and it gives them 1 more opportunity to hit the press.I think everyone should be able to see this, dont you?Especially at a time where the competition is starting to change the scenery, both in this direction as well as others.That being said, cudos to nVidia for their lead here, tho it may not last, they are getting their mileage out of it[/citation]
Given that the primary new tool tests the end result, what is sent to the screen, it still is much better than any other system out there, and one that is hard to make favor one company over the other, unless it really exists.
 
7870 vs 660TI?

Users not knowing with computing will now have an inaccurate result to look to, since you are comparing two $200-$220 cards to like $300 cards... people are going to look at that incorrectly.. its not the first time Toms has done this either.
 


According to Tom's tests, the 7870 has held its own against the 660 Ti cards in performance regardless of price, so i's not an issue for this comparison. People can look at it however they want, but Tom's has continually demonstrated this.
 


This is even more significant. Interesting... Multiple reputable sources with the same findings.
 
[citation][nom]ubercake[/nom]No tearing on 120Hz monitors until you get over 120fps and even then tearing is no longer perceivable until you hit the mid 400s.Also, that is not the point of the article.This is a great article. It's consistent with others I've read on the subject. It is consistent to what is being published regarding information AMD is also supporting. I look forward to seeing what you do with the tweaks of the FCAT software to further define what equates to a "runt" frame. Seems like that could make an even greater difference. Defining a runt frame seems somewhat subjective. Seems like many more than 21 scan lines or less could define a runt and would seem dependent on the resolution somewhat?[/citation]
You can (and will) get a tear at any fps while vsync is not enabled. Once a frame is finished drawing and the buffer is flipped, the monitor scanner will pick up on the new frame. The only exception is VSync.
 
Thats my point.
nVidia has gotten their mileage out of this, and everyone ons the same page in the media.
I dont question the tool, nor its value, I do question some reactions by the press tho, and was my intent in my previous comment, without having to paint it out as such.
 
[citation][nom]BigMack70[/nom]Amazing review... really happy to see all the progress being done to get the end user more relevant data about GPU purchases, especially in the world of multi-GPU.My hope is that all of these tools will eventually lead to Nvidia and AMD conquering the microstutter boogeyman that has plagued multi-GPU setups for so long (yes I'm aware that AMD is currently a lot worse than Nvidia on this, no that doesn't mean Nvidia has solved the problem yet).[/citation]

Look at all of the misinformed / ignorant AMD fanboys thumbs downing this comment. What he says is fact... Quit being so ignorant. No, I am no an NVIDIA fanboy. Call me a knowledge fanboy if you want... This kind of crap pisses me off. 3 thumbs down at the time of this comment... 🙁
 


They've known about this for a long time as was pointed out several months ago when Tom's asked AMD and Nvidia about this stuff. They've been working on it too. None of what you said is accurate.
 
If they're working on it, then I'd say they're scratching their heads, trying to figure it out. It will be the marketing types that need to change their drawers, at least until the engineers fix it.
The additional vsync analysis is hopeful though.
And if anyone wondered, I'm nobody's fanboy, currently running cards from both companies, as I have done back and forth over the years.
 
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