China to Challenge Intel at Chipmaking

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[citation][nom](un)fair trade and \"competition\"[/nom]"lots of racism in here.. WOW..! competition can only make things better for us...cheaper processor price, better processor... "And I suppose you are under the impression that China is an open and fair market to the outside world. The government subsidizes the cost of oil (making it cheaper for internal companies to compete cost-wise); several large industries such as steel are also subsidized, and imported products face tariffs and other restrictions. There are also significantly different approaches to labor 'laws' such as wages, age and human rights that impact competitiveness. Then consider safety standards, environmental standards, questionable compliance with copyright and patent standards and ask yourself is China really operating on a level playing field with the rest of the industrialized nations?Competition and open trade makes things better when it is indeed OPEN and FAIR - neither is the case the way the Chinese government currently operates... this is not racism.[/citation]

Good question, so I would like to ask you a question too

Is China an Industrialized nation ?

The answer is NO, China is still a developing country.
 
"Good question, so I would like to ask you a question too

Is China an Industrialized nation ?

The answer is NO, China is still a developing country."

My bad, didn't realize a 'developing country' moniker allows countries to ignore free trade, and ignore most international standards. Good to know. Apparently if you are developing country there is no need to enforce/respect copyright laws, you can subsidize companies to allow dumping of products, enable companies to maximize cheap labor and child labor and impose whatever import restrictions you want to make external companies less competitive than internal ones.

Thank you for educating us on the topic.

'just invade an unsuspecting smaller country and take their oil...that'll make you feel better about yourself 😉'

You mean the country of Georgia? Nevermind that was just to seize control over a pipeline, not the oil itself. Nothing to see here move along - the whole sovereignty thing is a bit over-rated anyway. "Unsuspecting"... interesting choice of words.
 
[citation][nom]pirate man[/nom]"Good question, so I would like to ask you a question tooIs China an Industrialized nation ?The answer is NO, China is still a developing country."My bad, didn't realize a 'developing country' moniker allows countries to ignore free trade, and ignore most international standards. Good to know. Apparently if you are developing country there is no need to enforce/respect copyright laws, you can subsidize companies to allow dumping of products, enable companies to maximize cheap labor and child labor and impose whatever import restrictions you want to make external companies less competitive than internal ones.Thank you for educating us on the topic. 'just invade an unsuspecting smaller country and take their oil...that'll make you feel better about yourself 'You mean the country of Georgia? Nevermind that was just to seize control over a pipeline, not the oil itself. Nothing to see here move along - the whole sovereignty thing is a bit over-rated anyway. "Unsuspecting"... interesting choice of words.[/citation]

China subsidizes imported oil, for their own citizens only. This keeps gas price low and affordable for people. They don't subsidize products that they manufacture themselves to dump it overseas. That would be America and EU, who subsidize their agricultural products (grain, wheat) and dump it overseas. If only our government give us a discount on gas like China does for its own citizens, the lives of average Americans like us would be a lot easier.

And I wasn't aware that China invaded Georgia. I do hear news on Iraq every day though.
 
I don't like this one bit. Me as a Canadian citizen would rather pay DOUBLE for a good quality AMERICAN processor than any Chinese model I don't care much for competition I think that Intel has been doing a fine job and has a great track record. Until I can see a good performance Chinese model that can prove its worth against Intel's models (and with the looks of Core i7 dosn't seem like it will be any time soon) it will be a hot day in Yellowknife before I give them my business.
 
[citation][nom]adamk890[/nom]I don't like this one bit. Me as a Canadian citizen would rather pay DOUBLE for a good quality AMERICAN processor than any Chinese model I don't care much for competition I think that Intel has been doing a fine job and has a great track record. Until I can see a good performance Chinese model that can prove its worth against Intel's models (and with the looks of Core i7 dosn't seem like it will be any time soon) it will be a hot day in Yellowknife before I give them my business. [/citation]

Pay double, heh? No comment on that...

Although keep in mind that Intel cpu dies are made in Germany, and unit assembled in Malaysia. The cardboard box that holds it is made in America. Would you still pay double?
 
I think the US is more afraid of China. Numerous times US lawmakers blocked China from buying US companies while US complains that they can't have more direct ownership of Chinese companies. When Intel wants to put up some investment in China, US lawmakers intervened and Intel was able to build an outdated 90nm technology plant instead of a more advanced 45nm one.
 
hi adamk890 ..if someday godson cpu really make it to the world, i dun think they will bother wat cpu u going to buy or how much u going to pay.

isn't wintel ripping off every1 on earth all the time ? (hmm . .apple's upgrade is so expensive ...no comment) for me I would buy the cheapest cpu possible and overclock --> rip intel off .. . hahaha
 
Sports fans, the article is referring to military specific processors used in super computers, military computing laboratories, etc. This has nothing to do with what is available to the public, as those are available to China anyways. China's process development is for the processors they cannot acquire. You wont see the godson anytime soon.
 
[citation]so far the only two American brands that are dominating in Chinese market is GM and Buicks. [/citation]

i stopped here.

Chinese chips, i feel, won't have that big of an impact for quite some time. But unless America gets things going in the right direction soon (like 5-10 years)Chinese made tech could become a problem. Also, can't china buy american stuff? just not directly from america?
 
I don't understand why people hate Chinese brand name stuff so much? Look around yourself, how many products are actually designed and produced by Chinese people? You have American designing products in German and you have Russians developing software in Canada; the world is getting more diversified now!

Once I was watching Table Tennis in Olympics. The game was "Canada v.s. Mexico" or something like that. But all I could see was a Chinese guy and a Argentina guy. Who da hell there was Canadian??? It was the Chinese guy. I saw similar situations in other games also.

If we think Chinese people produce shit stuff and we hate it, we have to hate the entire world and they are everywhere.

But don't get me wrong, Americans are everywhere also.

So my point is: why we focus on talking about how bad they are? should we, instead, discuss what benefits it actually brings when Chinese people can really make their own chip?!
 
Its so funny how people pull the racist card out like a shield, what has happened to society when you can't even mention simple facts whether they be true or false, every country has its flaws and we should learn from our mistakes not get all worked up like a bunch of babies, the fact it that it is true that piracy is rampant I don't even know where I can buy an original copy of a dvd or piece of software can you tell me where? and that if Intel and AMD shipped top technology over it would be stolen, copied, and a new chinese name put on it which in place they would try to undercut them out of the market and then claim they were the inventors of the technology it happens everyday. Those who say otherwise are walking with their eyes closed.
 
[citation][nom]pirate man[/nom]"Good question, so I would like to ask you a question tooIs China an Industrialized nation ?The answer is NO, China is still a developing country."My bad, didn't realize a 'developing country' moniker allows countries to ignore free trade, and ignore most international standards. Good to know. Apparently if you are developing country there is no need to enforce/respect copyright laws, you can subsidize companies to allow dumping of products, enable companies to maximize cheap labor and child labor and impose whatever import restrictions you want to make external companies less competitive than internal ones.Thank you for educating us on the topic. 'just invade an unsuspecting smaller country and take their oil...that'll make you feel better about yourself 'You mean the country of Georgia? Nevermind that was just to seize control over a pipeline, not the oil itself. Nothing to see here move along - the whole sovereignty thing is a bit over-rated anyway. "Unsuspecting"... interesting choice of words.[/citation]

As someone here already mentioned, China only subsidizes the oil and gas for the COMMONER, CAR DRIVER and make it affordable for them to buy your AMERICAN CARS there, CHINESE OIL COMPANIES are losing billions every year because of this oil subsizdies. In the beginning of this year, JAN 1 , China introduced new set of labour laws, and as the result, a number of AMERICAN and GERMAN companies already fled China for other cheaper, neighbouring countries, from this lesson we learn that you only learn the true colour of people when disasters come, so your lovely AMERICAN companies only come to exploit people, when stricter laws imposed, they RAN AWAY.
Do you know that your AMERICA is the subsidizer of agricultural products ? go and google it and see if I am lying. so before accusing other people of subsidies, look at yourself first.
good question from one of the people here, everytime Chinese companies want to buy American companies, the deal hardly ever go through, but AMERICAN companies always look out to take over Chinese companies like the COCA COLA deal $2.4 billions, and it is still being processed, though I hope it will fail.
you know sometimes I truly wish that Chinese people can just stop buying AMERICAN cars like Buicks and Chevrolets.
 
I don't believe that the American people are to blame for the exploitation of Chinese labor, as myself and others are not thrilled about our jobs being sent to China(or India, in my case as a software dev.). It's the tiny minority of ultra wealthy politicians and CEOs in our country that are to blame for making/enabling that choice, working people liked it back in the 80s before NAFTA, etc... However, the biggest enabler of all for Chinese labor exploitation is... CHINA'S goverment and wealthy CEOs... And the US' "service and knowledge" based economy is not a sustainable model, it's something lazy and greedy idiots came up with, if it was even remotely feasible, we wouldn't have this incredible trade deficit.
 
very interesting.......it almost feels like Americans are scared of china. y else would ppl complain if china wants to make a x86 simulating chip thats theoretically 80% of a real x86 chip. AND they are making it for themselves.
and y do u think chinese are doing R&D on chip that can are available so cheap (low end chip....not many ppl wants to play crysis)......ill let u answer that question.
 
[citation][nom]Lin[/nom]Good question, so I would like to ask you a question tooIs China an Industrialized nation ?The answer is NO, China is still a developing country.[/citation]

China is a industrial power, despite the fact that there are still many Chinese people living under abject condition. Just look at steel production by country, and China is No.1 of the world in 2007, way ahead of the second and third. China, though, is by no means a modern nation, due to its lack of modern institution and shortage of modern facilities in vast majority of its rural area. This was also the case to the US, British Empire and Soviet Union when each was just about to finish industrialization in 1860, 1840 and 1930. In the end, industrialization did not bring wealth and happiness to the people, but generated a new caste who control and own everything but leave nothing to the poor or powerless. It takes Charles Dickens' talent to vividly describe how abhorrent the lives underclass at the end of industrialization. Nothing is new for whatever happens in China. It went from Stalinist to pre-modern industrialized society, and we all know that pre-modern industrialized Western and Japanese Empires brought exact two world wars.

Though I see angry youths will jump and praise the government's effort for "tech independence" from Western Colonial/Imperial powers, they will never be able to buy one from the market. Does anyone here remember the days when microprocessors were banned from exporting to Soviet Union? Then it's not hart to realize what PRC government is trying to prevent, and they are always up to no good anyway.
 
[citation][nom]Lin[/nom]As someone here already mentioned, China only subsidizes the oil and gas for the COMMONER, CAR DRIVER and make it affordable for them to buy your AMERICAN CARS there, CHINESE OIL COMPANIES are losing billions every year because of this oil subsizdies. [/citation]

PRC government doesn't subsidize oil industry. They own the whole Chinese oil industry. PRC government are very afraid of public uprising against communists, so sometimes they control price of commodity to assuage public discontent towards them, especially at the time when inflation takes off at 7% a year. No matter they earn or lose money, it is irrelevant, and they are still run by a cadre of inept, corrupt and sycophant communists who are selected to be in charge not due to their ability to run the operation, but their loyalty and fawningness to the superior.

The US and other Western agriculture countries do all kinds of subsidization to farming. And you know why? Number of electoral districts. Rural, or farming, countries usually have more delegates in congresses, parliaments or "der Rat." The end result is cheaper food price for everybody, while farmers get more profit and have more incentive to produce. On the other hand, PRC government seems to favor screwing peasants on various level. No wonder food production of China went all the way down since 2000.
 
Here's hoping the chinks will NEVER succeed. The market is flooded enough with cheap beloved patriot knockoffs and substandard 'made in china' garbage. Every brand major name has been dragged through the mud ever since the owners got greedy and outsourced to a piece of sh1t nation.
 
Oo , don't worry the chinks will succeed, not only will they kick Intel of the chinky market, they will also grab some market share of Intel in the future. Btw did you just lose your job to that piece of shit nation ? I see.
I know you hope that the chinks will not succeed because by the time they succeed with this chip, more of you will lose jobs. lol

I hope everyone here can see the true face of the Americans now, everyone look at him above, so you see, when you fear and cannot do anything, you turn to racist rants. Beautiful, isn't it ?
But it's ok the chinks will progress forward.
 
[citation][nom]chaohsiangchen[/nom]PRC government doesn't subsidize oil industry. They own the whole Chinese oil industry. PRC government are very afraid of public uprising against communists, so sometimes they control price of commodity to assuage public discontent towards them, especially at the time when inflation takes off at 7% a year. No matter they earn or lose money, it is irrelevant, and they are still run by a cadre of inept, corrupt and sycophant communists who are selected to be in charge not due to their ability to run the operation, but their loyalty and fawningness to the superior.The US and other Western agriculture countries do all kinds of subsidization to farming. And you know why? Number of electoral districts. Rural, or farming, countries usually have more delegates in congresses, parliaments or "der Rat." The end result is cheaper food price for everybody, while farmers get more profit and have more incentive to produce. On the other hand, PRC government seems to favor screwing peasants on various level. No wonder food production of China went all the way down since 2000.[/citation]


Hey does corruption exist in Taiwan ? Mr.Chen
 
[citation][nom]chaohsiangchen[/nom]PRC government doesn't subsidize oil industry. They own the whole Chinese oil industry. PRC government are very afraid of public uprising against communists, so sometimes they control price of commodity to assuage public discontent towards them, especially at the time when inflation takes off at 7% a year. No matter they earn or lose money, it is irrelevant, and they are still run by a cadre of inept, corrupt and sycophant communists who are selected to be in charge not due to their ability to run the operation, but their loyalty and fawningness to the superior.The US and other Western agriculture countries do all kinds of subsidization to farming. And you know why? Number of electoral districts. Rural, or farming, countries usually have more delegates in congresses, parliaments or "der Rat." The end result is cheaper food price for everybody, while farmers get more profit and have more incentive to produce. On the other hand, PRC government seems to favor screwing peasants on various level. No wonder food production of China went all the way down since 2000.[/citation]

Finally someone admits that the US also does subsidies, so now what ? Should we classify subsidies into 2 groups, bad subsidies and good subsidies ? or good "unfairness" and bad "unfairness" ?
 
[citation][nom]anonymous123[/nom]Here's hoping the chinks will NEVER succeed. The market is flooded enough with cheap beloved patriot knockoffs and substandard 'made in china' garbage. Every brand major name has been dragged through the mud ever since the owners got greedy and outsourced to a piece of sh1t nation.[/citation]

You see, when you join in a discussion, you should make sure that you do it in a civilized manner, in that way people will take you more seriously, talking racist will only display your insecurity and make people have bad feelings about your country. That's all, a friendly advice from, take it or leave it, up to you.
Btw I heard that Dell is going to close down a factory, right ?
 
[citation][nom]Lin[/nom]Hey does corruption exist in Taiwan ? Mr.Chen [/citation]

No way near the situation of corruption, ineptness and ruthlessness across the creek.
 
[citation][nom]Lin[/nom]Finally someone admits that the US also does subsidies, so now what ? Should we classify subsidies into 2 groups, bad subsidies and good subsidies ? or good "unfairness" and bad "unfairness" ? [/citation]

All democracies do subsidization. The only problem with subsidizing agricultural products is that some poor countries (China not included) whine too much in the UN, and there are many enough to push the agenda through that useless organization. Some countries, like Thailand, already very successful rice exporter, tries to use the agenda as a leverage to eliminate competition from other countries. Will the West ceasing subsidizing on crops help Zimbabwe? Very unlikely. When you have E-coli tainted salsa imported from slightly poorer neighbor, you'll reconsider the "fairness" side of the whole anti-subsidy thing. Actually, the US food industry is so over-regulated by FDA, that it literally can't survive without subsidy. The same can't be said for other countries, otherwise we won't have toxic tooth paste, poisonous pet food and lead-contaminated toys circulation around the world.
 
US subsidies on farming is also wrong... does one wrong action make a second wrong action justifiable? China sells oil below market price - you can call it "state ownership" I call it subsidization when the price is below what would normally be charged. And while you focus on just this and try to justify this action by other countries' (wrong) actions - you ignore the complete lack of copyright respect; questionable labor practices, disregard for other international standards like safety, etc...

I don't mind you defending China - but try to do so in an intellectually honest manner.

"I hope everyone here can see the true face of the Americans now, everyone look at him above, so you see, when you fear and cannot do anything, you turn to racist rants."

Stereotyping the actions or comments of a single person into a generalization about an entire community of people is not the very definition of racism no? In a sense the outrage against the true face of American racists and assignment of one person's views into a broad stroke of everyone's view IS racism! While I don't agree with that poster's comments, and I have no idea if he/she is American to begin with, there is free speech in many parts of the world - something that doesn't exist in other areas of the world where most contrarian comments are suppressed by the state. But it is good to see you are able to conclude and generalize 300million people's beliefs based on one comment - no racism/stereotyping there (sarcasm intended).
 
[citation][nom]chaohsiangchen[/nom]No way near the situation of corruption, ineptness and ruthlessness across the creek.[/citation]

But I thought in the democratic Taiwan, the president (Chen-shui-bian) is not supposed to steal from the country then jet off to the US. Isn't he the one that always call for independence and act as if he really cares for Taiwan but in the end siphoned funds and jet off.
 
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