Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.strategic (
More info?)
Raymond Martineau wrote:
> On 21 Sep 2005 06:26:31 -0700, "littlemute" <littlemute@woodenmen.org>
> wrote:
>
> >What are the problems with Warcraft 3? It's all about battle micro and
> >unit counters, the games are fast and furious, and the gameplay is
> >completely dominated by offense which makes for exciting games without
> >the sloughing through 5 lines of defenses because you didn't do a flash
> >tank/commander rush.
>
> Warcraft 3 is still not designed for realistic engagements. As an example,
> set your necromancers to auto-cast raise dead - you get a bunch of
> skeletons that hold position just before the combat area that are not part
> of any group.
Could you explain this more? Do you mean they should be added to the
mage group? Say I have my frontline troops in one group, my focus
firing gargoyles in another group, and the mages/hero in the third.
Mages finish casting cripple or whatever your opening spell with them
will be then you switch them to autocast raise dead and they start
raising. Are you saying the skeletons should be part of a group
automatically? How would the computer know which group to put them in?
I'd rather have them in my frontline meat group.
>
> >
> >Were the differences distinct enough to justify basically an entirely
> >different tech tree just for Kbots? Kbots don't really act as infantry
> >(can't take cover) and are basically tanks with legs instead of treads,
> >and the tanks, of course, can move and fire.
>
> Kbots can do the same. As an example, send a PeeWee on a run through the
> enemy base with +shootall.
>
What I mean by this is accentuating the difference between tanks and
infantry, which TA by design doesn't have at all. Tanks cannot move and
fire. They move, stop, shoot, move, stop, shoot. They also have turrets
so the rotation time is a factor in firing. Thirdly they have a lower
ability to see units (especially infantry) nearby. Infantry has 360
fire arc at all times without no rotation time. Kbots have the same
limitations as tanks, they rotate their torsos, they can't take cover
and they have a facing. Their is essentially no differnce between them
except for speed.
> >
> >In contrast, both Starcraft and TA give the players the ability to lose
> >their entire army and then sit back with their defenses to build up
> >another one, making for a very long game.
>
> No - if an army is lost in an RTS, the game is also generally lost as well.
> Most RTS games (including TA) have artillery attacks and superweapons that
> shread defensive formations (unless such defences are used as an offensive
> position, such as 4 Big Berthas supported with 2 flaks and 1 missile, and 4
> plasma cannons.)
>
> An long as RTS games focus on a one big blitzkrieg, a loss of the army
> generally means the loss of the game. (That, and the fact that some
> "defensive" units have no standing power.)
This has not been my experience with TA. By the time someone gets a
chance to build 4 big bertha's it's usually time to stop playing due to
real life.
>
> >Where warcraft 3 shines is
> >that if you lose your army, you lose the game, period. Losing towns
> >and buildings is much less of a blow.
>
> Warcraft 3 isn't that simple. The game is only lost if you lose your army
> *AND* your buildings in a short period of time. If you somehow reduce the
> enemy army to scraps as well (yes, that happens), there's still a chance of
> winning.
>
> >This removes the 'fire and
> >forget' with your armies that plagues all the Civ-style RTS, as well as
> >TA, that is you just select a mass of units and attack move somewhere
> >into the enemies area, then go back to managing your cities.
>
> The fire and forget is not removed - there's plenty of auto-cast spells and
> other rushes that allow the exact same tactic that's supposed to be taken
> care of. For example, the infamous Hunter rush.
I don't know, I still micro alot when I huntress rush as I always take
my hero with, also why let them kill even one huntress if you can help
it? Just shadow them out (if it's night) or dance them away. They did
balance out the huntresses quite a bit, if you see one seige unit in
the enemy army by the time you rush, better hold off and tech as they
really put the hurt on the unarmored units.
The autocasts are autocasts because they're balanced in what they do
for you in battle compared to the click to casts. The elf mages in the
human army have the best dispel in the game, but it's click to cast,
while the Dryads have a weaker (one unit) auto cast dispel that is
overpowered by mass casting of say Bloodlust. Sending in an army
without micro is suicide, sure there are times against creeps that you
can start a battle, get in your first contact casts and focus fires,
then go back to your town to do stuff for a little bit, but against a
human opponent? You never know what sort of craziness they will pull,
even a simple health or mana potion can change the whole course of a
battle.
Contrast this with TA, where you typically micro only the salvage units
to clean up the scrapped units while the battle rages.
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