Cleevey's Stumped.

cleeve · Apr 3, 2005

Alright guys... I've got a nice 6800 Ultra now and I should be running with the big boys, getting at LEAST 11k in 3dMark03... Instead I'm barely breaking the 9k barrier.

That's closer to 12-pipe 6800 scores, not 16-pipe 6800 Ultra scores...

Yeah, I know they're bungholiomarks, but I have a feeling the performance isn't what it should be. Doesn't FEEL right.

Checked my pipelines with Rivatuner, all 16 are running... my clockspeeds are at 6800 Ultra speeds, I underclocked to see if the GPU was too stressed at stock speeds - thought it might be a bad GPU, but the scores got worse, not better.

GPU's running at 63 degrees celcius, I think that's about right.

3dmark still reports my CPU bench as being BETTER than the norm, not worse... so I don't think it's the platform. Besides, with my 9700 PRO this platform gave me scores in the top 10% or so on the ORB.

So what the hell is the deal? Why am I running at least 2k short on 3dMark03? Any ideas would be appreciated at this point...

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3853990" target="_new">http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3853990</A>

________________
Geforce 6800 Ultra
AthlonXP 3200+ (Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)
3dMark03: 9,192

pauldh · Apr 4, 2005

I take it you used a driver cleaner to remove old ATI drivers. Did you try to uninstall and reinstall 3dmark03? Are the Drivers set to NV defaults? You could try and set them to looks like mud "highest performance" and see, knowing it's not an AA/AF thing as they will be off for sure.

It's weird Cleeve. Are you one of the unlucky ones who will need an OS reinstall to gain back lost performance? I swap cards alot and have rarely seen a significant lose. I could see 50-100 3dmarks, but 2,000+, wow.

All is normal in the bios? Fastwrites, AGP 8X, AGP aperature size?

All fine in device manager; no ! marks?

Did you run DXdiag tests? Hardware acceleration on fully?

Hard to think of anything you wouldn't have done already, besides a fresh OS install.

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=658042" target="_new">3DMark05</A> <A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3781954" target="_new">3DMark03</A>

cleeve · Apr 4, 2005

Yeah... triple-checked AA/AF, 8x AGP is on, fastwrites are on, hardware acceleration to full.

Even messed with the aperture, no effect.

Tried DxDiag tests on your recomendation, no problems.

System is runnign smooth as silk. I am loathe to reinstall as everything is running AOK.

Goddamnit.

________________
Geforce 6800 Ultra
AthlonXP 3200+ (Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)
3dMark03: 9,192

dhlucke · Apr 4, 2005

Clean install buddy.

<pre>A64 3200+ Winchester
DFI Lan Party NF4 Ultra-D
1GB Corsair 4400C25PT
WD740GD, WD2000JB, WD1200JB
ATI X800XL
Dell 2405FPW</pre>

pauldh · Apr 4, 2005

That's why I hesitated to reply. I figured you'd have done the obvious steps.

Got a spare HDD you could do a fresh install on just to see if/how much performance boost it gives. If You find a 20% performance increase, me thinks you'd stick with the fresh install,

Did you buy the $10 Farcry? How does it play for you with the new card?

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=658042" target="_new">3DMark05</A> <A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3781954" target="_new">3DMark03</A>

cleeve · Apr 4, 2005

Meh, I've never been a member of the school of thought that a fresh install fixes every problem. I take care of my OS's, no spyware/adware/virusses/TSR's I don't need on my system.

An interesting experiment may have shown me the problem though... when I lowered the core to 350, there was no difference... but when I lowered the core to 300, bang!

Score went up 1000!

I bought the card with an NV5 cooler on it... I'm beginning to suspect that the guy I bought it from maybve didn't know what he was doing on install... maybe didn't seat it properly, maybe used thermal tape instead of Arctic Silver.

I'm going to dismantle it tomorrow, and make sure the cooler is kosher. Then we'll see if the GPU likes it any more.

________________
Geforce 6800 Ultra
AthlonXP 3200+ (Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)
3dMark03: 10,138

Ned_Flanders · Apr 4, 2005

Keep us updated!

______________
Welcome to my Shed of Pleasure

pauldh · Apr 4, 2005

It's self clocking down as the core heats up too high? Good discovery. Hope the AS5 helps.

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?3dm05=658042" target="_new">3DMark05</A> <A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3781954" target="_new">3DMark03</A>

cleeve · Apr 4, 2005

Nah, that's the funny part... it stays at 400. Also, the Nvidia drivers recommend an overclock. Bizarre.

We'll find out this evening if the cooler was installed properly... I hope it was...

________________
Geforce 6800 Ultra
AthlonXP 3200+ (Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)
3dMark03: 10,138

HardWareBoss · Apr 4, 2005

Crappy 6800 Ultra you have there. Have you fixed the fan problem?

addiarmadar · Apr 4, 2005

Tried marking these score from a freash install of windows and drivers?

Only an overclocker can make a computer into a convectional oven.

cleeve · Apr 4, 2005

I've said it before and I'll say it again; if you take care of your OS, a clean install won't do jack for you.

I'll get this mofo to work without a reinstall, you guys'll see. I've already got it up to 10k. Now I just have to find the last 1.5 to 2k, and I'm home.

________________
Geforce 6800 Ultra
AthlonXP 3200+ (Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)
3dMark03: 10,138

Rugger · Apr 4, 2005

Is there a "Cleeve's guide to taking car of your OS"?

__________________________________________________
You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!

cleeve · Apr 4, 2005

Sure:

1. Be damn sure you know what your clicking when you see a popup window (better yet, just close every popup window you see).

2. Don't install programs that come with adware. That's right, either buy the adware-free version of Kazaa, or use Edonkey.

3. Use a good virus scanner.

4. Did I mention adware/spyware? I think I did. Use Ad-aware, spybot periodically. They're free, no excuse not to.

5. Pay attention to what programs are running in the background. Turn them off if you don't need them.

6. Related to #5, pay attention to your registry! Don't let TSR's automatically run on startup if you don't need them , you can always start them manually later. Use a good registry cleaner, but pay attention to what it finds and wants to modify.

7. Remove old video drivers before installing new ones.

8. WindowsXP, no 98 or millenium.

Friends, using these simple techniques, I have had versions of WindowsXP on machines for over a year and running smooth as silk. As a rule, the only time I need to reinstall is when I change my hard disks, or get a new motherboard. And there have even been times I've had an installation migrate between mobos with no hassles.

________________
Geforce 6800 Ultra
AthlonXP 3200+ (Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)
3dMark03: 10,138

apesoccer · Apr 4, 2005

Have you looked for people with similar cpu's to your own and checked their scores against yours? A buddy of mine got a 6800gt (as did I) ... hmm ... just check these out...bout a 2000pt difference.

<A HREF="http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3790904" target="_new">6800GT 3000+</A> <A HREF="http:// http://service.futuremark.com/compare?2k3=3690195" target="_new">6800GT P4 3000</A>

edit: On second thought...Hmm that might be more of an example of an OS taken to its limits...Mine is a fresh install, his isn't. I've found 10-11k of P4 3000s. How long has it been since you wiped and reloaded your OS. No matter how well you take care of your os, it does become cluttered. ( >< ) I personally, ONLY put benchmarks and games on my main computer...but i've still noticed significant decreases in benchmarks over time. I don't surf the net ever, no email here, i don't keep games on there i don't use...It's a clean machine...Cough except for f@h on there running cough.

Current machines running F@H:
AMD: [64 3500+][64 3000+][2500+][2000+][1.3x1][366]
Intel: [X 3.0x3][P4 3.0x2][P4 2.4x5][P4 1.4]

"...and i'm not gay" RX8 -Greatest Quote of ALL TimeEdited by apesoccer on 04/04/05 04:12 PM.

Rugger · Apr 4, 2005

1. Be damn sure you know what your clicking when you see a popup window (better yet, just close every popup window you see).

*grumbles*
Damn hard with friggin women in the house!

2. Don't install programs that come with adware. That's right, either buy the adware-free version of Kazaa, or use Edonkey.

And the only way to tell if there is adware is if you read the license agreement? Any other way? What's Kazaa? Edonkey?

4. Did I mention adware/spyware? I think I did. Use Ad-aware, spybot periodically. They're free, no excuse not to.

I used Spybot S/D for a while, but found that I was still getting frequent pop-ups. I downloaded Norton AV, because I was thinking about switching AV scanners. I was surprised to find that Norton AV has an imbedded adware/spyware detection capability. Furthermore - it detected and cleaned more than Spybot. Needless to say I completed the transition to NAV. It lists anything not removed by NAV and their support has specific details (including registry) on how to remove those items as well as cleaners for stubborn instances. I've been really impressed with the performance of NAV.

6. Related to #5, pay attention to your registry! Don't let TSR's automatically run on startup if you don't need them , you can always start them manually later. Use a good registry cleaner, but pay attention to what it finds and wants to modify.

TSR? What's the best way to monitor/list what programs are loading on startup? Is the Norton registry cleaner good enough?

I'm already doing a good bit of what you said - thanks for the tips! Help on the above questions would be greatly appreciated!

__________________________________________________
You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!

cleeve · Apr 4, 2005

How long has it been since you wiped and reloaded your OS. No matter how well you take care of your os, it does become cluttered.

I respectfully disagree. My last two videocards got the same or better marks in 3dMark from the day of install to the day of removal, over six months on each. After I installed my 9700 PRO in an 11-month old install of XP, I still made the top 10% of 3dMark scores for my card/platform.

TSR is an old-school acronym for Terminate and Stay Resident programs. Anything that runs in he background and eats CPU cycles & memory when it's not in use. is a TSR.

Press cntrl/alt/del to open your task manager and see what processes are running. It's worth it to search google and find out what they are if you're not sure.

The msconfig utility (Start button>run>type "msconfig">hit enter) is a good place to see what is lauched on startup.

________________
Geforce 6800 Ultra
AthlonXP 3200+ (Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)
3dMark03: 10,138

Rugger · Apr 5, 2005

Thanks!

__________________________________________________
You're a boil on the arse of progress - don't make me squeeze you!

apesoccer · Apr 5, 2005

rofl...i use or do one of those things on a weekly basis...i've used msconfig since 98...can't recall if they had it on 95 or not. Was sooo irritated when it wasn't in 2000. I've heard (haven't actually done it) that you can sorta import msconfig in to 2000 tho.

You've had similar or better scores over the last couple of cards over extended periods of time? That's a rarity...i've seen significant drops just going to a newer driver (not because of an improper installation either...).

lol, i wouldn't be on this forum if i didn't know what ctrl alt del was and its uses in 95,98,nt 4,5, and 6.

Current machines running F@H:
AMD: [64 3500+][64 3000+][2500+][2000+][1.3x1][366]
Intel: [X 3.0x3][P4 3.0x2][P4 2.4x5][P4 1.4]

"...and i'm not gay" RX8 -Greatest Quote of ALL Time

TheGreatGrapeApe · Apr 5, 2005

OK, missed this on the weekend, was a bit busy.

One thing you may think about, which came up when GW and I had our little 3Dmk showdown was the USB and PCI devices you have plugged in. Switch to a PS2 mouse/keyboard if you can too.

It's seems silly, but it works cause every one of those takes up bandwidth and cpu cycles. Amazingly simple and easy to miss, but definitely what you want if you're going hardcore. Not sure it would make as much of a difference as you are experiencing, but just something to consider.

As for time = clean + wipe. Id say that's a good axiom. Bit-rot does occur, and defraging doesn't quite complete the task. It's not essential, but if you're looking for every last bit of efficiency/speed/bungholios well then it's something worth considering. Of course if you don't run much else on it, maybe there's very little chance for bit-rot , but for me I usually go about every 6 months (less if I have a good reason [got an F'in trojan over the weekend trying to find a good DVD->avi program]), I'd wipe+install tonight if it weren't for the fact that I'll be moving to a new rig anyways.

- You need a licence to buy a gun, but they'll sell anyone a stamp (or internet account) ! - <A HREF="http://www.redgreen.com/" target="_new">RED GREEN</A> GA to SK :evil:

cleeve · Apr 5, 2005

Well, took the card apart... cleaned off the crappy thick thermal paste and replaced it with some nice AS3.

GPU temps are a good 10 degrees cooler under load, but still... 3dMark03 hovers around the 10,500 mark.

TO satisfy you "reinstall-first-ask-questions-later"-phytes I'll try with another hard disk with a fresh XP install, but there's no way my version of XP is causing a 1500+ difference in 3dMark03. No way.

If I can't get it to work better than this, and you guys see a 6800U on ebay in Winnipeg... don't bid on it.

I've learned one thing for sure; Far Cry is absolutely gorgeous with HDR, more beautiful than any screenshot can show. In action it's really quite breathtaking.

The problem is, it slows the card down to little better than half of it's regular speed. Ouch. If this is what I can expect from SM 3.0 performance on the 6800's, I'm not impressed.

Sure is purty tho.

________________
Geforce 6800 Ultra
AthlonXP 3200+ (Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)
3dMark03: 10,138

apesoccer · Apr 5, 2005

Yea! =P

Real Men use Text Smilies...

(i realize now that you're trying a new install...there is no way you'll get a better score...( >< )...)

Current machines running F@H:
AMD: [64 3500+][64 3000+][2500+][2000+][1.3x1][366]
Intel: [X 3.0x3][P4 3.0x2][P4 2.4x5][P4 1.4]

"...and i'm not gay" RX8 -Greatest Quote of ALL Time

Zoron · Apr 5, 2005

You're in Winnipeg dude? I'm about 8 hours north of ya.

If you design software that is fool-proof, only a fool will want to use it.

cleeve · Apr 5, 2005

What, you're in Thompson?

I know some Thompsonites. Is the "headframe" still the only bar in town?

________________
Geforce 6800 Ultra
AthlonXP 3200+ (Barton 2500+ o/c 400 FSB)
3dMark03: 10,138

Slava · Apr 5, 2005

Even messed with the aperture, no effect

nVIDIA recommends apperture size at 4 megs for 6800Us. This is bull. In my case performance dropped significantly when I set the app to 4 megs. By trial and error I found out that the best app size for 6800U is 128 mb if you have 1 gig of RAM.

I hope this helps a bit.

"The creative powers of English morphology are pathetic compared to what we find in other languages." (Steven Pinker, The Language Instinct) 😎

Cleevey's Stumped.

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