Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (
More info?)
On 21 Apr 2005 08:52:27 -0700, Hylander <john.gagon@gmail.com> wrote:
>I'm still a bit confused on attacking because of how some people treat
>it at a tournament.
Okay. A lot of people do stuff "too fast" a lot of the time...
>If I understand it correctly...if someone attacks and I have no
>apparent blockers and they put damage on the stack...can they say I'm
>"too late" to do anything by tapping the attacker?
If you haven't done anything yet, then no.
>If they go too fast
>and don't ask at each step in combat...can't I back them up....they
>complain that they wouldn't have played certain things if they knew I
>was doing such and such etc.
If they do go too fast, saying "I'm attacking with this and this, damage
on the stack?", effectively skipping straight over steps 1, 2, and 3 of
combat and trying to head for step 4 directly? Then you certainly can say
"I have something to do before you ever declare attackers at all, in
beginning of combat step, and you gave me no chance to do it. I have not yet
passed in step 1, so you can't have declared attackers yet at step 2's start."
or the like.
If they do, however, see your Icy Manipulator or Flood or whatever out there,
and say "I want to attack now ... any effects? No? Okay, I'm attacking with
this, this, and this. I see you have nothing to block with. Anything before
damage goes on the stack? (or "Damage on the stack?" as a question)", then they
are giving you the chances you need to say "Before you declare attackers, I..."
or "Before blockers are declared, I..." or "Before combat damage is on the
stack, I...".
The difference here is if they do give you the chance(s), and you pass them
up, you can't go backwards past where you passed up your chances. But if they
don't give you the chances in the first place, the game is actually still
at the last point where you had priority (and could have taken an action, or
passed), and you can back up that far, or partway to it.
>As I understand it...combat is like everything else with delineating
>steps and then "triggers and responses".
Right. Priority passes, let's see, at LEAST four times during Combat phase,
and usually at least twelve:
If the attack turns out to be a "null attack", there's still 'all players
pass in succession during beginning-of-combat step' and 'all players p.i.s.d.
end-of-combat step'.
If one or more attackers are declared, then there's "all players p.i.s.d"
each of the five steps of combat PLUS the fact that combat damage itself
goes on the stack, so you need this while it's on the stack for it to be
able to resolve, and again still during combat-damage step after combat damage
has resolved, for the step to be able to end.
So yes, everyone gets the chance to do stuff during each step of combat, and
there's always at LEAST two steps, and usually five (sometimes six), AND
there's ALWAYS one step before attackers ever get declared at all, which is
the usual spot for opponent to tap creatures before they can attack.
And attacking player CANNOT unilaterally move ahead to a given step of Combat
without allowing opponent to do stuff during any previous step. (And vice
versa, by the way.)
>ie:
>
>Declare attack.
> triggers
> responses until you decide to stop stacking
> responses until you decide to stop stacking
> (etc until someone passes)
Well, each time _all_ players pass in succession, either the top thing on
the stack resolves (if there's anything on the stack) or the current step/
phase ends and the next one begins (if there's nothing on the stack). So there
are rather more passes involved than you seem to think. But most of them, a
lot of the time, are silently skipped over by both players. Which does NOT
mean they're not there at all, it just means both players are agreeing to
go ahead until one of them wants to actually do something, or is told by the
rules to do something.
And what you have up there is step _two_ of Combat phase, declare-attackers
step. There's an entire step before that, beginning-of-combat step, in which
both players gotta pass in succession before that step can end and active
player can get to "declaring attackers" at _all_.
>Declare blockers
> triggers
> responses
This is step 3, declare-blockers step.
>Damage
> triggers
> responses.
This is step 4, combat-damage step. If _any_ attacker or blocker has first
strike or double strike as this step starts, then this step will happen
twice.
And there's a step 5, end-of-combat step, after combat damage entirely
but still before Combat phase can end.
>Am I right on this? The rules seem more complicated but everything else
>seems to follow this kind of pattern.
Yep. Each step or phase CANNOT end until all players pass in succession with
the stack empty. (The exceptions being untap step, since nobody ever gets
priority in that step at all, and most cleanup steps.)
>Can I tap something when they declare attackers or do I have to do this
>immediately after draw step...ie: "During your first main phase, I tap
>your White Knight (or whatever)".
There is a "beginning of combat" step, after Combat phase has started but
before step 2 starts, in which you or he can do stuff before attackers are
declared. Attackers are declared as step 2 of Combat starts; if any attackers
were declared, then blockers are declared as step 3 starts, and combat damage
is put onto the stack as step 4 starts.
Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
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