Question Computer freezes in high-demanding game ?

[JohnyAlkosebre]

Hello everyone.

I've been playing Dragon's Dogma 2 for last few days and had no problem untill around 25.03. Now, when I launch the game the whole computer freezes after 30 seconds to 2 minutes of play-time. The sound is stuck and I can't do anything. What's worse, after few crashes yesterday, it started to happen even when I was browsing internet or launching some indie title like Against the Storm. Today I had the luck to play Honkai : Star Rail (not really demanding title) without problem, but as soon as I launched Dragon's Dogma 2 - the computer froze.
What is interesting (I think) is when the PC freezes, the fans still run and the lights on my GPU and RAM are still working.
1. I updated the bios and made a clean installation of drivers.
2. I tried some troubleshooting from the internet, like : sfc /scannow.
3. I fixed the "gameInput" error my PC was showing in events as critical. What I should add, is before I uninstalled the 2023 version of this thing I had BSOD around 24.03.
4. Now it shows only the classic Kernel 41 (69) error as critical.

I launched a system viewer from Gigabyte to check if there is some problem with temperatures or voltage:
https://ibb.co/BcdGkkm

volt2 hosted at ImgBB

Image volt2 hosted in ImgBB

ibb.co

My specs : i5 12400F (1 year old)
3060TI (1 year old)
16 giga ram Fury Kingston (1 year old)
PSU : EVGA 600W (80w Bronze)(around 2.5 years old, bought brand-new).

Is there any specific info I should add? I was thinking about changing the PSU for some better 750W one, but my financial status is not so great so I am trying solutions first.
Appreciate any kind of help and your time!

 

[Aeacus]

PSU : EVGA 600W (80w Bronze)(around 2.5 years old, bought brand-new).

PSU model (or part number) is?

Now it shows only the classic Kernel 41 (69) error as critical.

Power delivery failure. Either bad PSU or MoBo VRMs are acting up.

I was thinking about changing the PSU for some better 750W one

Which one to be exact? Since PSUs aren't created equal.

 

[JohnyAlkosebre]

PSU model (or part number) is?


Power delivery failure. Either bad PSU or MoBo VRMs are acting up.


Which one to be exact? Since PSUs aren't created equal.

I am not sure, but the PSU shows EVGA model number 600W and there is a sticker with PIN,CIN, UPC,EAN and some barcodes. Which one do you need?

Motherboards is a Gigabyte B660M that I also bought and changed 2 years ago when I have done modernisation of my PC.

I think I will buy something like Corsair RM750W?

Sorry, I am not really good at tech-stuff. I just like to play games for fun after work. Thanks for help!

 

[Aeacus]

I am not sure, but the PSU shows EVGA model number 600W and there is a sticker with PIN,CIN, UPC,EAN and some barcodes. Which one do you need?

Make a pic of entire PSU label, upload it to the net, e.g www.imgur.com and share the image here.

Corsair RM750W

In total, there are 4x RM-series PSUs from Corsair. Two of then are good: RMi and RMx. Other two, RM and RMe are lesser quality ones and i don't suggest those. Better get RMi or RMx.

Some good quality options,
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/mQDkcf,6NcG3C,2gCZxr/

Sorry, I am not really good at tech-stuff.

This is the sole reason why we have TH forums, so people can ask for help.

 

[JohnyAlkosebre]

Make a pic of entire PSU label, upload it to the net, e.g www.imgur.com and share the image here.


In total, there are 4x RM-series PSUs from Corsair. Two of then are good: RMi and RMx. Other two, RM and RMe are lesser quality ones and i don't suggest those. Better get RMi or RMx.

Some good quality options,
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/mQDkcf,6NcG3C,2gCZxr/


This is the sole reason why we have TH forums, so people can ask for help.

https://imgur.com/F7KHLsl

View: https://imgur.com/F7KHLsl

https://imgur.com/a/GtS1blr

View: https://imgur.com/a/GtS1blr


Thanks for the link with good PSU and for help. If I won't find a solution then I will definitely buy one of those.

 

[Aeacus]

For info: PSU part number is the "P/N" (which does stand for Part Number actually). So, your PSU part number is 100-W1-0600, whereby i can read from it, that model name is W1.

EVGA W1 is low quality PSU, essentially crap quality PSU. So, PSU acting up, is no surprise.

For 2nd opinion about your PSU, look it from PSU tier list,
link: https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...er-list-rev-14-8-final-update-jul-21.3624094/

You'll find it under Tier D, low priority unit. While the 3x units i suggested, are all Tier A.
(While personally, i'm also using only Tier A units. I have 3x PCs, and PSUs i have are 2x Seasonic PRIME TX-650 and one Seasonic Focus PX-550. Full specs with pics in my sig.)

 

[JohnyAlkosebre]

For info: PSU part number is the "P/N" (which does stand for Part Number actually). So, your PSU part number is 100-W1-0600, whereby i can read from it, that model name is W1.

EVGA W1 is low quality PSU, essentially crap quality PSU. So, PSU acting up, is no surprise.

For 2nd opinion about your PSU, look it from PSU tier list,
link: https://forums.tomshardware.com/thr...er-list-rev-14-8-final-update-jul-21.3624094/

You'll find it under Tier D, low priority unit. While the 3x units i suggested, are all Tier A.
(While personally, i'm also using only Tier A units. I have 3x PCs, and PSUs i have are 2x Seasonic PRIME TX-650 and one Seasonic Focus PX-550. Full specs with pics in my sig.)

Thank you for all your help! I already ordered new PCU, but I still have some questions. Today I decided to check my PCU and hard-test my system. So I launched Warhammer 3 (CPU heavy), then Cybperunk 2077 and at last Dragon's Dogma 2. What is interesting is that the perfect line was in Warhammer and the janky voltage line was in DD2 when it soon crashed. I tested Dogma 2 yesterday at 11 PM and somehow it worked for 1h. The line in voltage was pefect.

https://imgur.com/a/L3GwamE

View: https://imgur.com/a/L3GwamE


What is your opinion on this matter? Is there any way to fix this shitty PSU of EVGA? Like, you know, to manuall set voltage or sth?

Best regards and again thank you for your time!

 

[Aeacus]

Is there any way to fix this shitty PSU of EVGA?

Only fix: PSU replacement.

Like, you know, to manuall set voltage or sth?

Can't change voltage targets.

Now, PC hardware (CPU, GPU, MoBo, storage drives), all ask specific wattage form PSU, which depends on the load of the hardware. E.g 10W, 50W, 200W etc. Now, PSU is supposed to deliver all the wattage, at constant voltage, which is +3.3V, +5V and +12V. Since none of the PSU is ever able to deliver e.g +12V at all times (aka perfection), the ATX PSU standard has given voltage tolerances (which are very lenient), whereby PSU must keep the voltage rails within that specification. Which are:

+12V DC rail - tolerance ±5% ; +11.40V to +12.60V
+5V DC rail - tolerance ±5% ; +4.75V to +5.25V
+3.3V DC rail - tolerance ±5% ; +3.14V to +3.47V
-12V DC rail - tolerance ±10% ; -10.80V to -13.20V
+5V SB rail - tolerance ±5% ; +4.75V to +5.25V

Depending on a load on PSU, the voltage varies. The less the voltage varies, the better the PSU must be. For example, my Seasonic PRIME TX-650 [SSR-650TD] has mythical levels of voltage regulation:

Source: https://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/seasonic-prime-titanium-650w-psu,4690-4.html

Which has less than 0.9% deviation on all rails, regardless the load on PSU. (Then again, my PSU was the best 650W PSU money could buy back in 2016 and it still is one of the best, if not the best, PSU out there.)

For comparison, here is voltage regulation of EVGA 600B (Tier D), which is a bit better than your EVGA W1 600 (Tier D, low priority);

Source: https://www.techpowerup.com/review/evga-600b/5.html

Quite a stark contrast. On average EVGA 600B has voltage regulation deviation ~3%. That's a lot. Also, keep in mind that your EVGA W1 is even worse than this EVGA 600B.

The more stable the voltage is, and the more closer it is to the target (+3.3V, +5V and +12V), the better the PC components operate. If the voltage varies constantly, it makes the operation of PC components unstable. And it comes down to the PSU itself, IF it is able to deliver stable voltages or not (namely, how much deviation there is regarding voltage).

From the images you shared, i can see that +12V rail fluctuates around a lot, and that impacts the work of CPU and GPU. Now, CPUs are very sensitive to voltage shifts and my best guess is that it's your CPU that fails to keep the game running, since PSU is feeding it the "bad" voltages.

For analogy example: if you're drunk enough, try walking in a straight line. I'm sure you'd weer around a lot, until you'll loose your balance and fall to the ground. In this analogy example, you falling to the ground is same as CPU failing it's operation, resulting in BSoD/freeze/crash. And when you're drunk, how can you make so that you can walk in straight line without falling over? Sober up. Only way. Same with PCs, only way is to get better PSU, which has much tighter voltage regulation, among other things. When drunk, you can't drink different alcohol e.g wine or beer, to help you walk in straight line again. In similar sense, you can't "fix" a bad PSU.

 

[JohnyAlkosebre]

Wow! That was such an amazing response and perfect explanation of things. Thank You very much for your time, I understand now everything. I am gonna update the topic after changing the PSU and playing some games for few days to check if everything is stable now. Happy Easter to you @Aeacus and once more - Thank You!

 

[JohnyAlkosebre]

Hello again everyone!
Sadly I have to continue this topic as my system started to crash again since few days ago. My PSU is really good, as I bought MSI 850 at the end of March. Untill now it crashed really rarely so I didn't give it a thought, but few days ago I started playing some demanding game Throne and Liberty and the computer not only started again to "freeze", but it also started to freeze after reboot. In event viewer it shows as Kernell 42.
My specs : i5 12400F (1 year old)
3060TI (1 year old)
16 giga ram Fury Kingston (1 year old)
The rest of specs stayed the same.
Should I just format the whole computer to check if there isn't some kind of faulty driver? I was also wondering is it possible to have freezes because of sound drivers? I have this feeling that my PC crashes when I have youtube playing on second monitor.

 

[Aeacus]

My PSU is really good, as I bought MSI 850

Model (or part number) of this "really good" PSU is?

Should I just format the whole computer to check if there isn't some kind of faulty driver?

Well, clean OS install is fastest and easiest software fix, IF the issue is with software. Also, it doesn't cost you any money. So, feel free to format OS drive and make a new, clean Win installation.

I was also wondering is it possible to have freezes because of sound drivers?

Yes. Among plethora of other software possibilities, as of why system freezes. Can be networking drivers, GPU drivers, 3rd party program. Essentially due to everything that is within OS.

Heck, in my Win7 days, i had solid freezes due to my Corsair iCUE software (that controls my Corsair peripherals).

 

[JohnyAlkosebre]

Model (or part number) of this "really good" PSU is?


Well, clean OS install is fastest and easiest software fix, IF the issue is with software. Also, it doesn't cost you any money. So, feel free to format OS drive and make a new, clean Win installation.


Yes. Among plethora of other software possibilities, as of why system freezes. Can be networking drivers, GPU drivers, 3rd party program. Essentially due to everything that is within OS.

Heck, in my Win7 days, i had solid freezes due to my Corsair iCUE software (that controls my Corsair peripherals).

Thanks for response. I got MSI MPG A850G 850W 80 Plus Gold.

I just had the game crash again on me and what is strange - the game was starting to choke and freeze for like 1-2 seconds. Then it completely freezed, but the music was still playing. No buttons worked only hard reset. After I did it, the computer had trouble launching because bootmgr was missing. Had to restart again, because it didn't show my SSD drive with system installed on it. What the hell is happening with this machine. I definitely have to wipe it clean.

 

[Aeacus]

I got MSI MPG A850G 850W 80 Plus Gold.

This is not a "really good" PSU. Since if it were, it would be listed here,
article: https://hwbusters.com/best_picks/best-atxv3-pcie5-ready-psus-picks-hardware-busters/4/

I did find a review of MPG A850G, but it isn't a reputable review,
link: https://tech4gamers.com/msi-mpg-a850g-850w-review/

And since it isn't a reputable review, it also misses a lot of critical information about PSU. E.g detailed ripple measurements of each rail, and not PSU as a whole (as it is in that review). Also, there are no other, important tests, like: transient response, hold-up, inrush current, timings, 5VSB efficiency, vampire power, protection features, fan noise and speed. - All these are part of a reputable review.

Based on this single review i found and little data it offers, i'd classify MPG A850G, at best, as mediocre quality unit. Especially since important test data is missing (like hold-up time, among others). And as long as PSU isn't proven to be good or "really good" unit - it is not good. Regardless what MSI or you, yourself, is saying about it.

E.g it also has high +12v rail load regulation of 1.24%. For comparison, MSI MEG A850GL has +12V rail load regulation of 0.51%,
reputable review: https://hwbusters.com/psus/msi-mag-a850gl-pcie5-850w-psu-review/4/

You can compare A850G review and A850GL reputable review, to see how PSU review must be. Quite a stark contrast between two reviews.

After I did it, the computer had trouble launching because bootmgr was missing.

Missing bootmgr = OS corruption or failed SSD.

Btw, what is your SSD? You haven't listed it's specs.
Same goes to your MoBo. Just saying you have Gigabyte B660M doesn't tell much.
Just look how many "Gigabyte B660M" MoBos there are,
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/motherboard/#m=18&c=154&sort=name&page=1

I counted 18 different MoBos.


Since your MSI A850G PSU isn't proven to be good PSU, let alone "really good" PSU, suspicion is still in the air, that it could be PSU issue.
Because PSU powers everything, it is the most important component inside the PC. Moreover, PSU has the ability to degrade or outright kill everything it is connected to.

IF the issue is hardware, here's what might have happened;
your EVGA unit damaged and degraded your SSD.
your MSI unit (not confirmed to be a good PSU), degraded SSD further until it's failure.

At this point, if SSD doesn't show up in BIOS, you can try plugging it into 2nd SATA slot (if it is SATA SSD). Or into 2nd M.2 slot (if it is PCI-E NVMe/AHCI SSD). When SSD still doesn't show up, you can consider your SSD toast.
With this, better look towards new SSD. Good ones are Samsung 870 Evo (SATA SSD) and Samsung 970 Evo Plus (PCI-E 3.0 M.2 NVMe SSD). Both are in use in my systems as well.

Personally, i would have not bought the MSI MPG A850G in the first place, since there are 0 reputable reviews of it. Instead, i would've bought a PSU that is confirmed to be a good PSU by reputable review. Like the three 750W units i linked above, Super Flower, Corsair and Seasonic units.
I also just checked the price and Corsair RMx 750W is mere 5 bucks more than your MSI MPG A850G unit,
pcpp: https://pcpartpicker.com/products/compare/mQDkcf,6NcG3C,zF4Zxr,2gCZxr/

It really makes me wonder, why did you buy MSI MPG A850G? What was the reasoning behind this?
I doubt that you even looked if the MSI MPG A850G has any reviews, right? So, why buy it? Because it is sold by MSI? Or you didn't have 5 extra bucks for Corsair RMx 750 unit?