News Cyberpunk 2077 RT Overdrive Path Tracing: Full Path Tracing, Fully Unnecessary

[Phaaze88]

Geez, what has been up with this push for realism anyways? Is that all the majority of folks have come to care about these days?

 

[zx128k]

Geez, what has been up with this push for realism anyways? Is that all the majority of folks have come to care about these days?

Its been the focus of PC graphics from the very start. Doom, Quake, on and on. The whole point of Lumen for consoles or PC.

To beat Lumen on consoles, PC is going to have to go that extra mile.

 

[Ogotai]

All the points are covered. Just get a console the gameplay is the same. Any games you want to play can be done via the cloud. No need for a new gpu. Ask yourself why there are cloud gaming services.

so your want, for example, me to spend 600+ on a console, that would barely get used relitive to my comp, that is used daily, that could also play cloud games, even in its current form, with the 1060. yea no. i would rather spend that 600+ on a new video card, that can play the games i play better, at 2k which the 1060 is barely able to do. there are other things i do on this comp as well. the bottom line the console would get used quite a bit less then the comp would. also, what happens IF my net connection goes down for what ever reason ? no thanks, for some a console is just a waste of money for their usage.

BTW, all points are NOT covered, which for the most part you practically ignored the ones i made.

i DIDN'T say anything about spending 2k on a new comp, YOU did. ( moving the goal posts to make the console seem like the better buy )

you seem to have kind of dodged the whole no games on console thing, and instead switched to cloud gaming, (again moving the goal posts a little ) which could be done on an existing comp, and there for, would make spending money on console, a complete waste of money, so i tell you what, you are so hell bent on getting a console to play games on, send me the 600 bucks, and i will go buy PS5 digital, then take pictures of that console for you so you can see the dust it will collect, as i would be playing the games on my comp, instead of the PS5 digital. and the money i have i will then spend on a new video card, which would see more usage then the console.

If you just care about gameplay and don't care about RT

Ray tracing is capable of simulating a variety of optical effects, such as reflection, refraction, soft shadows, scattering, depth of field, motion blur, caustics, ambient occlusion and dispersion phenomena (such as chromatic aberration) to me that doesnt make a game look better, per say, higher resolution textures, and more detail in those textures would make a game look better. and thats where raster performance matters.

This is the conclusion of all the anti RT comments. Accept them and getting a console is the right choice. Xbox Cloud Gaming is for you.

im not against RT, but unless you can afford the xx80 or xx90 series of cards, RT is just too big of a performance hit, a friend plays WoW, has a 3060, when he turns on RT in WoW, he looses 20-30 FPS @ 2k, for what looks like to him, for the most part, more defined shadows, a co worker has a x80 card ( can't remember if it is a 4080, or a 3080, but he doesnt even use RT, as, for him, the perfomance hit is too much. until RT perfomance can be had on xx70 and lower cards, that the x80/x90 cards currently see, it will be more of a niche thing, i will agree, that if you do want RT, a RTX card is the better choice, as RT and dlss seem to be the only reason to buy an nvidia card, look at this review, in rasterization the 7000 XT and XTX cards are close the the nvidia counterparts, and, where i am, the top end 7900xtx is $80 bucks more then the entry level 4080. cause i have no games that support RT ( other then WoW ) and dont care about DLSS as well, i would rather get an XT or XTX card, and save some money over the rtx cards, but, vid cards here are still way over priced, and wouldnt pay those prices, which is why i am still running a 1060 for now, hoping prices drop more.

as i said, the fact that i have a view that , getting a console is a waste of money for some and their usage, when they could be better served just upgrading their existing ( note, i said existing NOT new ) comp is a valid reason for not getting a console, is what you dont like.

face it, for some, a console is just a waste of money, plain and simple. and they would prefer to spend the money on a comp upgrade, instead.

 

[Ogotai]

Again, you miss the point. I'll spell it out in painstaking detail. A computer GPU may render a frame in 1/100 a second, say, whereas a render farm may require 2 minutes. In both cases, once rendered the viewpoint is fixed,

and you right there said why comparing a movie with a video game is not a fair comparison

the movie has WAY more detail then a game, which is why it take a render farm 2 minutes to render a frame, vs a comp in 1/100 of a second. not to mention the render farm, as 2,3,4+ video accelerators rendering that second, where now, all we have is 1 gpu. how long do you think it would take a 4090 to render that same scene that the render farm took 2 minutes to do ? id guess, hours. quite the difference in rendering power, so, NOT the same.
and again, a game has multiple view angles, that are rendered based on what the person playing the game is looking at, where a movie is still a fixed image, again not the same.

Now, if your GPU -could- deliver Hollywood-level CGI effects in real time, what would it do differently? Would it render at higher resolution? No. Would it create more frames per second? No again. It would use full path tracing to light higher-detail meshes, and animate them with more accurate physics. That is the path forward to more realistic graphics in videogames -- not more pixels and frames.

you do understand that for games to look better, it isnt just RT and what it does that makes the game look better, but its the detail of the textures and the game itself that does that, case in point, skyrim, warcraft 3 reforged, and other games that redo the games graphics with more detail and higher resolution textures.
or do you think just adding RT to the original skyrim and orginal warcraft 3 will make those game look better ?

 

[Phaaze88]

Its been the focus of PC graphics from the very start. Doom, Quake, on and on. The whole point of Lumen for consoles or PC.

To beat Lumen on consoles, PC is going to have to go that extra mile.

Perhaps a desire for folks into those kinds of titles. Having a hard time seeing it look good everything - things like demons, aliens, dragons, demi-humans and so on, aren't real, so taking a realistic approach to those...

I don't know, games aren't the main reason why I got into the PC space anyway; much of these RT, PT, DLSS, FSR, etc discussions - or flame wars - I'm figuratively reading/watching this all from a hammock.

 

[zx128k]

Perhaps a desire for folks into those kinds of titles. Having a hard time seeing it look good everything - things like demons, aliens, dragons, demi-humans and so on, aren't real, so taking a realistic approach to those...

I don't know, games aren't the main reason why I got into the PC space anyway; much of these RT, PT, DLSS, FSR, etc discussions - or flame wars - I'm figuratively reading/watching this all from a hammock.

PC was jokingly called the PC master race.

The PC Master Race is a tongue-in-cheek term to refer to the subcommunity within PC gaming that believes the PC is a superior gaming platform to consoles. The term comes from a 2008 review for The Witcher by Ben “Yahtzee” Crosshaw meant to convey the idea that the PC gaming community, at the time, was “elitist”.

There are lots of people that must have the best GPU the second it comes out and have super overclocked systems. Big part of PC gaming, that its more bleeding edge than consoles. People would spend more than a car on water cooling etc. Consoles would be good when they came out but ultamately find themselves behind PC.

I think Unreal Engine 5 and Lumen will be hard for PC to compete against. Every game, even gaming that are not AAA will look almost real.

This is Skyrim with RT, the game look great.

 

[dalauder]

...There are lots of people that must have the best GPU the second it comes out and have super overclocked systems. Big part of PC gaming, that its more bleeding edge than consoles. People would spend more than a car on water cooling etc. Consoles would be good when they came out but ultamately find themselves behind PC.

I think Unreal Engine 5 and Lumen will be hard for PC to compete against. Every game, even gaming that are not AAA will look almost real.

Do you mean "hard for console to compete against"? PC will be looking like that (real) from 2024 onwards. Consoles won't look like that until 2027.

But since about 2011 (Battlefield 3), the realism hasn't been limited by lighting or polygons, but animations and interactions...at least in the games that do a good job at it. Are those games/demos you linked actually going to be fun to play?

Because I like playing Civilization 2 (1996) and Faster Than Light (2012) lately. Their graphics aren't realistic at all. Civ 6 just isn't as fun as Civ 2, even if it is prettier.

 

[zx128k]

Do you mean "hard for console to compete against"? PC will be looking like that (real) from 2024 onwards. Consoles won't look like that until 2027.

But since about 2011 (Battlefield 3), the realism hasn't been limited by lighting or polygons, but animations and interactions...at least in the games that do a good job at it. Are those games/demos you linked actually going to be fun to play?

Because I like playing Civilization 2 (1996) and Faster Than Light (2012) lately. Their graphics aren't realistic at all. Civ 6 just isn't as fun as Civ 2, even if it is prettier.

Lumen was targeted at current consoles, not PC's.

Lumen is Unreal Engine 5's fully dynamic global illumination and reflections system that is designed for next-generation consoles, and it is the default global illumination and reflections system. Lumen renders diffuse interreflection with infinite bounces and indirect specular reflections in large, detailed environments at scales ranging from millimeters to kilometers. source

Example,

Fortnite Unreal Engine 5.1: How to Turn On Lumen Graphics for PS5, Xbox​

 

[dalauder]

Lumen was targeted at current consoles, not PC's.


Example,

I've been out of the loop. Thanks. Lumen seems pretty awesome. Practically, optimized ray tracing like that might be better. That really does look fantastic for running on medium-spec hardware.

I just don't see where perfect/full ray tracing is that useful outside of architecture and theatrical quality renderings.

 

[zx128k]

I've been out of the loop. Thanks. Lumen seems pretty awesome. Practically, optimized ray tracing like that might be better. That really does look fantastic for running on medium-spec hardware.

I just don't see where perfect/full ray tracing is that useful outside of architecture and theatrical quality renderings.

Lumen has limitations. Ray tracing has limitations as well. Path-tracing is the best but performance is the issue. Like I stated above, the arguements here are heading toward console is enough.

 

[sam buddy]

PC was jokingly called the PC master race.

The PC Master Race is a tongue-in-cheek term to refer to the subcommunity within PC gaming that believes the PC is a superior gaming platform to consoles. The term comes from a 2008 review for The Witcher by Ben “Yahtzee” Crosshaw meant to convey the idea that the PC gaming community, at the time, was “elitist”.

Off topic, but the reference to Ben “Yahtzee” Crosshaw in your quotation brought some good memories. I've played a lot of his games made with AGS, especially those based on the Chzo Mythos/John DeFoe tetralogy. Recommended (only) to fans of "old school adventure games.
Really glad his name strangely came up in this thread, off to look if he's made any new old school adventures with Path tracing

 

[dalauder]

Off topic, but the reference to Ben “Yahtzee” Crosshaw in your quotation brought some good memories. I've played a lot of his games made with AGS, especially those based on the Chzo Mythos/John DeFoe tetralogy. Recommended (only) to fans of "old school adventure games.
Really glad his name strangely came up in this thread, off to look if he's made any new old school adventures with Path tracing

Yahtzee! He made some great stuff. 5 Days a Stranger is the first one I knew of. Did anyone else try to make games with Adventure Game Studio? This brings the issue of gameplay to the forefront. Games are limited less by graphics than story and gameplay.