[SOLVED] Daisy chain in the rain

SnowMN

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Sep 25, 2013
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Hello community,i hope and wish the best for all during these dark times.
What i am wondering is this:

I have kraken x73,7 pwm 4 pin NF S12A by noctua and Thermaltake commamder pro!

A)Is there a way to connecting everyrhing in such a way that all fans will scale with the radiator fans
B)if yes explain how please


Thanks in advance.
 

Paperdoc

Champion
Ambassador
First, I'll comment on your basic plan, for I see a possible flaw. ALL fan speed control systems on a mobo actually are not quite speed controls. We should call them TEMPERATURE control systems, because the all concentrate on the TEMPERATURE measured at a sensor, and manipulate the speed of their fans to whatever it takes to keep that temperature on spec. They really do not care what the fan speed is, and do not use that info to do their work. However, they DO read their fan's speed and can display it for you. They also monitor that speed to detect fan FAILURE (no speed signal) and warn you of that.

In any system there are two major groups of fan controls (some have more possible). One is the CPU_FAN header, and it may include a CPU_OPT or AIO_PUMP or a couple others. These all use a temperature sensor built into the CPU chip by its maker. (Some also have options for sensors in the CPU socket.) So these are ideal for controlling fans that cool the CPU chip. A second group are the mobo CHA_FAN or SYS_FAN headers, and they normally use a different temperature sensor on the mobo. These are ideal for control of fans that cool the entire case. Very often in the configuration settings in BIOS Setup, these latter fan headers also offer you the option to use another temp sensor, like the one inside the CPU chip, and sometimes additional special sensors like one in the Voltage Regulator Module section, etc. These options are useful if you are dedicating one fan to an unusual use, like an extra radiator fan, or a fan aimed at the VRM area of your mobo. But for general case ventilation, use the motherboard general temp sensor.

If you have a graphics card in a PCIe slot with its own cooling fan, the card itself takes care of controlling its cooling. There is no way for the motherboard to access info about temperatures on the graphics card, so no mobo headers are used for that card.

Your plan is to have ALL fans controlled by the same source, the CPU chip cooling system, which controls the radiator fans for the Kraken x73 system. That can be done. But the more common plan would be to have only those two rad fans connected to the CPU_FAN header (and maybe a CPU_OPT if you have one), and all the case ventilation fans connected to a CHA_FAN or SYS_FAN header. In either case, you need a fan HUB with at least 7 outputs (at least 9 if you want to do them all together). This IS possible because all your fans are of the 4-pin PWM design, and fan Hubs can control the speed of this type of fan. A Hub has a cable to plug into a mobo CHA_FAN or SYS_FAN header, but it really uses only two of the four wires for this. It gets the PWM speed control signal from that header, and returns to the header the speed signal generated by ONE of its fans. (A fan header can deal with the speed signal from only one fan, so the hub will ignore all the others.) The Hub does not draw any power from the mobo header, which has a limit on power. Instead, the Hub has another cable to plug into a SATA or 4-pin Molex power output from the PSU, and that gets power for all the fans from there, avoiding the mobo header's limit. Then the Hub has several outputs to plug fans into, and all of them get exactly the same signals. But only ONE of them (the one plugged into the marked port) will be able to send its speed signal back to the mobo header. On some of these, the marked port has a label saying CPU Fan, but you do NOT have to plug any fan from the CPU cooling system into this one - it is just the "reporting" fan port.

A fan Hub may look like a collection of cable "arms" although this design is NOT common for a Hub with many outputs. You are more likely to see ones that look either like a circuit board with several 4-pin headers along its edges, or a closed box with several port holes around the edges for plugging in. Here are examples

https://www.amazon.com/Fan-Header-Controller-Efficient-Adhesive-Dedicated/dp/B07RV6P5RQ/ref=sr_1_24?crid=5AOKSIXXPX4X&dchild=1&keywords=fan+hub+4+pin&qid=1612931978&sprefix=fan+hub,aps,187&sr=8-24

https://www.amazon.com/DEEPCOOL-FH-10-Integrated-Occupying-Motherboard/dp/B077YHLDSP/ref=sr_1_15?crid=5AOKSIXXPX4X&dchild=1&keywords=fan+hub+4+pin&qid=1612931887&sprefix=fan+hub,aps,187&sr=8-15
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Quanticriver
Hello community,i hope and wish the best for all during these dark times.
What i am wondering is this:

I have kraken x73,7 pwm 4 pin NF S12A by noctua and Thermaltake commamder pro!

A)Is there a way to connecting everyrhing in such a way that all fans will scale with the radiator fans
B)if yes explain how please


Thanks in advance.
I mean you can get a fan control board and plug it into the main 4 pin fan header then plug the rad fan and all the other fans into it
 

Paperdoc

Champion
Ambassador
First, I'll comment on your basic plan, for I see a possible flaw. ALL fan speed control systems on a mobo actually are not quite speed controls. We should call them TEMPERATURE control systems, because the all concentrate on the TEMPERATURE measured at a sensor, and manipulate the speed of their fans to whatever it takes to keep that temperature on spec. They really do not care what the fan speed is, and do not use that info to do their work. However, they DO read their fan's speed and can display it for you. They also monitor that speed to detect fan FAILURE (no speed signal) and warn you of that.

In any system there are two major groups of fan controls (some have more possible). One is the CPU_FAN header, and it may include a CPU_OPT or AIO_PUMP or a couple others. These all use a temperature sensor built into the CPU chip by its maker. (Some also have options for sensors in the CPU socket.) So these are ideal for controlling fans that cool the CPU chip. A second group are the mobo CHA_FAN or SYS_FAN headers, and they normally use a different temperature sensor on the mobo. These are ideal for control of fans that cool the entire case. Very often in the configuration settings in BIOS Setup, these latter fan headers also offer you the option to use another temp sensor, like the one inside the CPU chip, and sometimes additional special sensors like one in the Voltage Regulator Module section, etc. These options are useful if you are dedicating one fan to an unusual use, like an extra radiator fan, or a fan aimed at the VRM area of your mobo. But for general case ventilation, use the motherboard general temp sensor.

If you have a graphics card in a PCIe slot with its own cooling fan, the card itself takes care of controlling its cooling. There is no way for the motherboard to access info about temperatures on the graphics card, so no mobo headers are used for that card.

Your plan is to have ALL fans controlled by the same source, the CPU chip cooling system, which controls the radiator fans for the Kraken x73 system. That can be done. But the more common plan would be to have only those two rad fans connected to the CPU_FAN header (and maybe a CPU_OPT if you have one), and all the case ventilation fans connected to a CHA_FAN or SYS_FAN header. In either case, you need a fan HUB with at least 7 outputs (at least 9 if you want to do them all together). This IS possible because all your fans are of the 4-pin PWM design, and fan Hubs can control the speed of this type of fan. A Hub has a cable to plug into a mobo CHA_FAN or SYS_FAN header, but it really uses only two of the four wires for this. It gets the PWM speed control signal from that header, and returns to the header the speed signal generated by ONE of its fans. (A fan header can deal with the speed signal from only one fan, so the hub will ignore all the others.) The Hub does not draw any power from the mobo header, which has a limit on power. Instead, the Hub has another cable to plug into a SATA or 4-pin Molex power output from the PSU, and that gets power for all the fans from there, avoiding the mobo header's limit. Then the Hub has several outputs to plug fans into, and all of them get exactly the same signals. But only ONE of them (the one plugged into the marked port) will be able to send its speed signal back to the mobo header. On some of these, the marked port has a label saying CPU Fan, but you do NOT have to plug any fan from the CPU cooling system into this one - it is just the "reporting" fan port.

A fan Hub may look like a collection of cable "arms" although this design is NOT common for a Hub with many outputs. You are more likely to see ones that look either like a circuit board with several 4-pin headers along its edges, or a closed box with several port holes around the edges for plugging in. Here are examples

https://www.amazon.com/Fan-Header-Controller-Efficient-Adhesive-Dedicated/dp/B07RV6P5RQ/ref=sr_1_24?crid=5AOKSIXXPX4X&dchild=1&keywords=fan+hub+4+pin&qid=1612931978&sprefix=fan+hub,aps,187&sr=8-24

https://www.amazon.com/DEEPCOOL-FH-10-Integrated-Occupying-Motherboard/dp/B077YHLDSP/ref=sr_1_15?crid=5AOKSIXXPX4X&dchild=1&keywords=fan+hub+4+pin&qid=1612931887&sprefix=fan+hub,aps,187&sr=8-15
 
Last edited:
Reactions: Quanticriver

SnowMN

Distinguished
Sep 25, 2013
34
0
18,540
1
First, I'll comment on your basic plan, for I see a possible flaw. ALL fan speed control systems on a mobo actually are not quite speed controls. We should call them TEMPERATURE control systems, because the all concentrate on the TEMPERATURE measured at a sensor, and manipulate the speed of their fans to whatever it takes to keep that temperature on spec. They really do not care what the fan speed is, and do not use that info to do their work. However, they DO read their fan's speed and can display it for you. They also monitor that speed to detect fan FAILURE (no speed signal) and warn you of that.

In any system there are two major groups of fan controls (some have more possible). One is the CPU_FAN header, and it may include a CPU_OPT or AIO_PUMP or a couple others. These all use a temperature sensor built into the CPU chip by its maker. (Some also have options for sensors in the CPU socket.) So these are ideal for controlling fans that cool the CPU chip. A second group are the mobo CHA_FAN or SYS_FAN headers, and they normally use a different temperature sensor on the mobo. These are ideal for control of fans that cool the entire case. Very often in the configuration settings in BIOS Setup, these latter fan headers also offer you the option to use another temp sensor, like the one inside the CPU chip, and sometimes additional special sensors like one in the Voltage Regulator Module section, etc. These options are useful if you are dedicating one fan to an unusual use, like an extra radiator fan, or a fan aimed at the VRM area of your mobo. But for general case ventilation, use the motherboard general temp sensor.

If you have a graphics card in a PCIe slot with its own cooling fan, the card itself takes care of controlling its cooling. There is no way for the motherboard to access info about temperatures on the graphics card, so no mobo headers are used for that card.

Your plan is to have ALL fans controlled by the same source, the CPU chip cooling system, which controls the radiator fans for the Kraken x73 system. That can be done. But the more common plan would be to have only those two rad fans connected to the CPU_FAN header (and maybe a CPU_OPT if you have one), and all the case ventilation fans connected to a CHA_FAN or SYS_FAN header. In either case, you need a fan HUB with at least 7 outputs (at least 9 if you want to do them all together). This IS possible because all your fans are of the 4-pin PWM design, and fan Hubs can control the speed of this type of fan. A Hub has a cable to plug into a mobo CHA_FAN or SYS_FAN header, but it really uses only two of the four wires for this. It gets the PWM speed control signal from that header, and returns to the header the speed signal generated by ONE of its fans. (A fan header can deal with the speed signal from only one fan, so the hub will ignore all the others.) The Hub does not draw any power from the mobo header, which has a limit on power. Instead, the Hub has another cable to plug into a SATA or 4-pin Molex power output from the PSU, and that gets power for all the fans from there, avoiding the mobo header's limit. Then the Hub has several outputs to plug fans into, and all of them get exactly the same signals. But only ONE of them (the one plugged into the marked port) will be able to send its speed signal back to the mobo header. On some of these, the marked port has a label saying CPU Fan, but you do NOT have to plug any fan from the CPU cooling system into this one - it is just the "reporting" fan port.

A fan Hub may look like a collection of cable "arms" although this design is NOT common for a Hub with many outputs. You are more likely to see ones that look either like a circuit board with several 4-pin headers along its edges, or a closed box with several port holes around the edges for plugging in. Here are examples

https://www.amazon.com/Fan-Header-Controller-Efficient-Adhesive-Dedicated/dp/B07RV6P5RQ/ref=sr_1_24?crid=5AOKSIXXPX4X&dchild=1&keywords=fan+hub+4+pin&qid=1612931978&sprefix=fan+hub,aps,187&sr=8-24

https://www.amazon.com/DEEPCOOL-FH-10-Integrated-Occupying-Motherboard/dp/B077YHLDSP/ref=sr_1_15?crid=5AOKSIXXPX4X&dchild=1&keywords=fan+hub+4+pin&qid=1612931887&sprefix=fan+hub,aps,187&sr=8-15
So pump in cpu_fan and commander fp with the 3kraken rad fans and the 7 case fans on the aio_pump since they are both oncpu temp?

Also could i plug the commander fp in the kraken daisy chain?
 
Last edited:

Paperdoc

Champion
Ambassador
Please give me more info on your components. Tell me
(a) maker and exact model number of your mobo
(b) details of this Commander Pro thing. What I found in my search was a set of keyboard and mouse for gamers sold by a Thermaltake subsidiary called tT eSports, with no instructions. But, although it has fancy lighting effects in both units, it did NOT appear to have any way to connect those lights to a mobo lighting header system, as if its lights are controlled completely separately. On the other hand, there is a fan and light controller system under a similar name by Corsair.

Do you WANT to tie all your case fans to the CPU temperature for some reason? As I said, that is not the common plan - most have those fans controlled by the motherboard temperature sensor through the SYS_FAN or CHA_FAN headers.
 

Paperdoc

Champion
Ambassador
I asked OP for details because the first post specifically said he has a "Thermaltake commamder pro". I took me a bit of searching to find that, becasue the regular ThermalTake website dose not show it at all. Then I found that tTeSports makes it, and they are a separate subsidiary of Thermaltake. The item does show the name ThermalTake on it.

I do agree, though, that the way OP replied on Feb 10 suggests he is using the CORSAIR Hub, and that's why I requested details. If we get that settled, plus the mobo details, we can provide the correct way to use this equipment.
 

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