Damping Matrix and Ninjutsu

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

I have a question about the interaction of Damping Matrix and
Ninjutsu. If I have a damping Matrix in play and am attacking with an
unblocked attacker, can I activate Higure's Ninjutsu ability?

I realize that if he were in play already, that his dealing combat
damage search ability would work and that his making a target ninja
unblockable ninja ability would not work, but I am unsure as to the
ninjutsu ability, as the card is not in play when the ninja
shenanigans are going on and I do not know how, or if that affects
him.

Also, I assume that if Pithing Needle were set to Higure, the results
would be the same as the Damping Matrix being in play.


Higure, the Still Wind
Cost: 3UU
Card Type: Legendary Creature ? Human Ninja
P/T: 3/4
Ninjutsu 2UU, Return an unblocked attacker you control to
hand: Put this card into play from your hand tapped and attacking.)
Whenever Higure deals combat damage to a player, you may search your
library for a Ninja card, reveal it, and put it into your hand. If you
do, shuffle your library.
2: Target Ninja is unblockable this turn.


Damping Matrix
Cost: 3
Card Type: Artifact
Activated abilities of artifacts and creatures can?t be played
unless they?re mana abilities.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

ktneely@astroturfgarden.com <ktneely@astroturfgarden.com> wrote:

> I have a question about the interaction of Damping Matrix and
> Ninjutsu. If I have a damping Matrix in play and am attacking with an
> unblocked attacker, can I activate Higure's Ninjutsu ability?

Yes. Since it's not in play, Damping Matrix won't interfere with its
activated ability.

200.9. If a spell or ability uses a type or subtype without the word
"card," "spell," or "source," it means a permanent of that type in play.

> I realize that if he were in play already, that his dealing combat
> damage search ability would work and that his making a target ninja
> unblockable ninja ability would not work, but I am unsure as to the
> ninjutsu ability, as the card is not in play when the ninja
> shenanigans are going on and I do not know how, or if that affects
> him.
>
> Also, I assume that if Pithing Needle were set to Higure, the results
> would be the same as the Damping Matrix being in play.

No, Pithing Needle with an appropriate name will interfere with
ninjutsu.
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

ktneely@astroturfgarden.com <ktneely@astroturfgarden.com> wrote:
>I have a question about the interaction of Damping Matrix and
>Ninjutsu. If I have a damping Matrix in play and am attacking with an
>unblocked attacker, can I activate Higure's Ninjutsu ability?

Certainly.

Is it an activated ability? Yes.

Is it an activated ability of an artifact? No.

Is it an activated ability of a creature? No.

Damping Matrix, therefore, doesn't apply.

(It's an activated ability of a creature -card- in someone's -hand-. There
are never any creatures, lands, artifacts, or enchantments in any zone other
than in-play.)

>Also, I assume that if Pithing Needle were set to Higure, the results
>would be the same as the Damping Matrix being in play.

No, actually, due to a Ruling on the card. Apparently it was intended to
affect abilities of cards in any zone, but ended up not saying so; it's
Ruled to work as intended and to stop activated abilities of the card in any
zone.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Jeff Heikkinen <no.way@jose.org> wrote:
>One of the voices in my head - or was it ktneely@astroturfgarden.com?
>> Also, I assume that if Pithing Needle were set to Higure, the results
>> would be the same as the Damping Matrix being in play.
>
>Yes.

No. Yes, Pithing Needle _reads_ as though it would only affect cards in play,
since it doesn't actually say anything about cards in any other zone. But it's
been Ruled to affect the named card in any zone. (I am hoping they'll actually
give it Errata to say so, so as to bring it back in line with the existing
-rules- on such things...)

Pithhing Needle naming "Higure, the Still Wind" will stop his target-Ninja-
unblockable ability from being playable while he's a creature in play, and
will stop his Ninjutsu ability from being playable while the card's in your
hand.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On 4 Sep 2005 02:24:09 -0400, dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com (David DeLaney)
wrote:

>No, actually, due to a Ruling on the card. Apparently it was intended to
>affect abilities of cards in any zone, but ended up not saying so; it's
>Ruled to work as intended and to stop activated abilities of the card in any
>zone.


Wow, interesting. I am glad I asked that question. I almost did not,
and had no idea of that ruling. That card is some good.

thank you for the very informative rulings.

K
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

***
Pithing Needle {1}
Artifact
Saviors of Kamigawa Rare
"- As Pithing Needle comes into play, name a card.
- Activated abilities of the named card can't be played unless they're
mana abilities."
***
At least Pithing Needle says "card", which is a step in the right
direction.
Still, that's a very confusing ruling.
Peter
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

"David DeLaney" <dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com> wrote in message
news:slrndhl564.h6r.dbd@gatekeeper.vic.com...
> ktneely@astroturfgarden.com <ktneely@astroturfgarden.com> wrote:
> >I have a question about the interaction of Damping Matrix and
> >Ninjutsu. If I have a damping Matrix in play and am attacking with an
> >unblocked attacker, can I activate Higure's Ninjutsu ability?
>
> Is it an activated ability? Yes.
>
> Is it an activated ability of an artifact? No.
>
> Is it an activated ability of a creature? No.
>
> Damping Matrix, therefore, doesn't apply.
>
> (It's an activated ability of a creature -card- in someone's -hand-. There
> are never any creatures, lands, artifacts, or enchantments in any zone
other
> than in-play.)

This seems to have some common ground with a situation that arose in the
"Creature Feature" tournament at GenCon.
I wanted to cycle a gempalm incinerator to kill a Beloved Chaplain (pro
creatures), but it was ruled an illegal target.

Although re-reading protection (can't be the target of <quality> spells or
abilities), it makes more sense.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Simon Cooper (swcooper@conecast.net) wrote:


: This seems to have some common ground with a situation that arose in the
: "Creature Feature" tournament at GenCon.
: I wanted to cycle a gempalm incinerator to kill a Beloved Chaplain (pro
: creatures), but it was ruled an illegal target.

: Although re-reading protection (can't be the target of <quality> spells or
: abilities), it makes more sense.

How? A card being cycled is only ever just a card. To be
a "creature" (as opposed to a creature card) it has to be
in play. The cycling trip from in-hand to graveyard doesn't
go through in-play.

So the Chaplain is the target of a card ability. That the
card happens to be a creature card matters not; the BC doesn't
have "protection from cards".

Which means, either I'm missing something here (quite possible)
or someone missed something there (less likely, but not unheard
of).


Keith
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Keith Piddington <uj551@vtn1.victoria.tc.ca> wrote:
>Simon Cooper (swcooper@conecast.net) wrote:
>: This seems to have some common ground with a situation that arose in the
>: "Creature Feature" tournament at GenCon.
>: I wanted to cycle a gempalm incinerator to kill a Beloved Chaplain (pro
>: creatures), but it was ruled an illegal target.
>
>: Although re-reading protection (can't be the target of <quality> spells or
>: abilities), it makes more sense.
>
>How? A card being cycled is only ever just a card. To be
>a "creature" (as opposed to a creature card) it has to be
>in play. The cycling trip from in-hand to graveyard doesn't
>go through in-play.

It is, however, a creature card that's in question. And "protection from
creatures" includes "can't be the target of creature spells" [not hard to
implement, since no creature spells target] "or of abilities from sources with
the quality 'creature'". And that last is different from "sources that
_are_ a creature, in play"; it instead has to go along the same lines as
"sources with the quality 'red'" or "sources with the quality 'converted mana
cost of 3 or more'". A creature card has card type 'creature'... so counts
as a "source with quality 'creature'" because of that. It may not be A
Creature at the time - but it is a creature -card-, so qualifies. Just like
the same Cycling ability can't target a creature with protection from red,
because it's from a red card. In essence, they did not want to keep drawing
an artificial and confusing line between how you treat "from a red card" and
"from a creature card" in that situation...

>So the Chaplain is the target of a card ability. That the
>card happens to be a creature card matters not; the BC doesn't
>have "protection from cards".

No. It has "protection from creatures"... meaning it can't be the target of
abilities from a 'creature source'. Which is _different from_ "it can't be
the target of abilities from a creature"; trying to phrase it that way for
the quality "red" gives you "can't be the target of abilities from a red",
which makes No Sense. It just happens that "can't be the target of abilities
from a creature" _does_ make sense ... but it isn't what the definition of
pro-creatures uses.

>Which means, either I'm missing something here (quite possible)

I'm thinking it's this one. Does the above help any to see why it's done
this way?

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.
 
Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Chances are suprisingly good that Keith Piddington was not wearing pants
when he or she said:
> Simon Cooper (swcooper@conecast.net) wrote:
>
>
> : This seems to have some common ground with a situation that arose in the
> : "Creature Feature" tournament at GenCon.
> : I wanted to cycle a gempalm incinerator to kill a Beloved Chaplain (pro
> : creatures), but it was ruled an illegal target.
>
> : Although re-reading protection (can't be the target of <quality> spells or
> : abilities), it makes more sense.
>
> How? A card being cycled is only ever just a card. To be
> a "creature" (as opposed to a creature card) it has to be
> in play. The cycling trip from in-hand to graveyard doesn't
> go through in-play.
>
> So the Chaplain is the target of a card ability. That the
> card happens to be a creature card matters not; the BC doesn't
> have "protection from cards".
>
> Which means, either I'm missing something here (quite possible)
> or someone missed something there (less likely, but not unheard
> of).

502.7a Protection is a static ability, written "Protection from
[quality]." This quality is usually a color (as in "protection from
black") but can be any characteristic value. If the quality is a type,
subtype, or supertype, the protection applies to sources that are
permanents with that type, subtype, or supertype **and to any sources
not in play that are of that type, subtype, or supertype**.

502.7b A permanent with protection can't be targeted by spells with the
stated quality and can't be targeted by abilities from a source with the
stated quality.

That should about cover it. Basically, Protection ignores the creature
vs creature card distinction because the rules specifically say it does.
 
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