Daru Warchief ruling?

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Daru Warchief : Creature - Soldier

Soldiers you control get +1/+2
-------------------------------------

Clearly, a second warchief would give the first one +1/+2, and the first
one would give the second one +1/+2. However, does each warchief also give
itself +1/+2? Normally cards don't affect themselves, but normally they say
"all OTHER soldiers you control get +1/+2". Since this card does not
specify OTHER soldiers, that hints that it does affect itself as well.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello, Backslash!
You wrote on Thu, 03 Jun 2004 12:52:51 GMT:

B> Daru Warchief : Creature - Soldier

B> Soldiers you control get +1/+2
B> -------------------------------------

B> Clearly, a second warchief would give the first one +1/+2, and
B> the first
B> one would give the second one +1/+2. However, does each warchief
B> also give
B> itself +1/+2? Normally cards don't affect themselves, but
B> normally they say
B> "all OTHER soldiers you control get +1/+2". Since this card does
B> not
B> specify OTHER soldiers, that hints that it does affect itself as
B> well.

I see no flaws in your reasoning. As a side confirmation, I saw myself
in Magic Online (reportedly Level 5 judge... with a few glitches here
and there) that Undead Warchief comes into play already as a 3/2
creature (the second one as 5/3 and so on) and its wording is an exact
mirror of Daru Warchief's:

Undead Warchief
{2}{B}{B}
Creature -- Zombie
1/1
Zombie spells you play cost {1} less to play.

Another example would be an equipped Auriok Steelshaper who also pumps
itself:

Auriok Steelshaper
{1}{W}
Creature -- Human Soldier
1/1
Equip costs you pay cost {1} less.
As long as Auriok Steelshaper is equipped, Soldiers and Knights you
control get +1/+1.

Regards,
Arkady.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

On Thu, 03 Jun 2004 12:52:51 GMT, Backslash <nosp@mwanted.com> wrote:

>Daru Warchief : Creature - Soldier
>
>Soldiers you control get +1/+2
>-------------------------------------
>
>Clearly, a second warchief would give the first one +1/+2, and the first
>one would give the second one +1/+2. However, does each warchief also give
>itself +1/+2?

Yes. It does not say "All other Soldiers you control get +1/+2".
Compare Warchief's wording to that of Aven Brigadier...

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Backslash <nosp@mwanted.com> wrote:

> Normally cards don't affect themselves,

Normally, they affect whatever they *say* they affect.

If they say they affect all Goblins, they affect *all* Goblins
regardless of who controls them.

If they say they affect green creatures you control, they affect green
creatures you control, regardless of whether one of those green
creatures is the source of the ability (and/or has other colors).
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Arkady Zilberberg <arkadyz1@yahoo.com> wrote:

> I see no flaws in your reasoning. As a side confirmation, I saw myself
> in Magic Online (reportedly Level 5 judge... with a few glitches here
> and there) that Undead Warchief comes into play already as a 3/2
> creature (the second one as 5/3 and so on) and its wording is an exact
> mirror of Daru Warchief's:
>
> Undead Warchief
> {2}{B}{B}
> Creature -- Zombie
> 1/1
> Zombie spells you play cost {1} less to play.

You left off the other ability when you posted this:

Undead Warchief
{2}{B}{B}
Creature -- Zombie
1/1
Zombie spells you play cost {1} less to play.
Zombies you control get +2/+1.

Was this a test to see who actually looks up card text?
--
Daniel W. Johnson
panoptes@iquest.net
http://members.iquest.net/~panoptes/
039 53 36 N / 086 11 55 W

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Hello, Daniel!
You wrote on Thu, 3 Jun 2004 10:49:49 -0500:

>> Undead Warchief
>> {2}{B}{B}
>> Creature -- Zombie
>> 1/1
>> Zombie spells you play cost {1} less to play.

DWJ> You left off the other ability when you posted this:

DWJ> Undead Warchief
DWJ> {2}{B}{B}
DWJ> Creature -- Zombie
DWJ> 1/1
DWJ> Zombie spells you play cost {1} less to play.
DWJ> Zombies you control get +2/+1.

DWJ> Was this a test to see who actually looks up card text?

No, I just accidentally copied one less line than intended...

Regards,
Arkady.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Backslash <nosp@mwanted.com> sent:

Daru Warchief {2}{W}{W} Creature -- Soldier 1/1
/ Soldier spells you play cost {1} less to play.
/ Soldiers you control get +1/+2.

> Clearly, a second warchief would give the first one +1/+2, and the first
> one would give the second one +1/+2. However, does each warchief also give
> itself +1/+2?

Yes. It's a Soldier, and you control it, so it gets +1/+2 from itself.

> Normally cards don't affect themselves,

A similar example:

Kaysa {3}{G}{G} Creature -- Legend 2/3
/ Green creatures you control get +1/+1.

Kaysa is normally a 3/4 creature in play, because she's a creature and
green and you control her.

Also, if a card didn't normally affect itself, then the following card
would be a lot more powerful than it already is...:

Nevinyrral's Disk {4} Artifact
/ Nevinyrral's Disk comes into play tapped.
/ {1}, {T}: Destroy all artifacts, creatures, and enchantments.

> but normally they say
> "all OTHER soldiers you control get +1/+2". Since this card does not
> specify OTHER soldiers, that hints that it does affect itself as well.

If it were meant to say 'other' then it would indeed say 'other',
for example:

Ascendant Evincar {4}{B}{B} Creature -- Legend 3/3
/ Flying
/ Other black creatures get +1/+1.
/ Nonblack creatures get -1/-1.

Aven Brigadier {3}{W}{W}{W} Creature -- Bird Soldier 3/5
/ Flying
/ All other Birds get +1/+1.
/ All other Soldiers get +1/+1.

....and so on for many other cards.

--
-- zoe

 

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Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Backslash <nosp@mwanted.com> wrote:
>Daru Warchief : Creature - Soldier
>
>Soldiers you control get +1/+2
>-------------------------------------

Daru Warchief 2WW Creature -- Soldier
1/1 Soldier spells you play cost 1 less to play. / Soldiers you control get
+1/+2.

The second ability does affect the Warchief himself, so he's usually a 2/3
for 2WW. (The first ability can't, but can affect -other- Soldier spells
cast once the DW is in play.

>Clearly, a second warchief would give the first one +1/+2, and the first
>one would give the second one +1/+2. However, does each warchief also give
>itself +1/+2?

Yes. Making both 3/5.

>Normally cards don't affect themselves,

Er - cards affect themselves just fine, unless they say otherwise. If a
card is a Soldier, and has an ability that affects Soldiers, it'll affect
itself; it would have to specify "other Soldiers" or 'Soldiers other than ~'
to not do so.

>Since this card does not
>specify OTHER soldiers, that hints that it does affect itself as well.

It doesn't "hint", it says it straight out, really.

Dave
--
\/David DeLaney posting from dbd@vic.com "It's not the pot that grows the flower
It's not the clock that slows the hour The definition's plain for anyone to see
Love is all it takes to make a family" - R&P. VISUALIZE HAPPYNET VRbeable<BLINK>
http://www.vic.com/~dbd/ - net.legends FAQ & Magic / I WUV you in all CAPS! --K.

 

[Guest]

Archived from groups: rec.games.trading-cards.magic.rules (More info?)

Backslash wrote:

>
> Normally cards don't affect themselves, but normally they say
> "all OTHER soldiers you control get +1/+2".

I could play some word games here, but...
I'd say you should think that cards normally _do_ affect themselves.
That's the main rules situation.
The cards that say "other" are the exceptions.
(Even if they may be the majority of some types!)
So it's better to have your mindset as "Cards normally
affect themeselves, unless otherwise stated" rather than "Cards
don't normally affect themselves, except for the ones that
don't explicitly say they don't".
It's just easier to keep the default on mind, so you only need the
cards to spell out the exceptions. I don't expect most cards to
remind me how the rules _normally_ work!