Dell sued for "bait and switch" and false promises

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Dogface wrote:
> But the money has been disappearing for over a half a century.
> Are there enough jail cells for all the politicians on both sides
> that have stolen our "Trust Fund"? Is their seperate retirement
> plan similarly looted? No.

If SS was pay as you go for the first several decades, what funds were
stolen?
 
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"Steve W." <Dugdug56@what.com> wrote:
> What I want to know is who actually believes there is a "Trust
> Fund" There never has been or will be one, Unless the individual
> accounts happen. ALL monies go into the general fund. They are
> then budgeted out to pay for whatever. SS is just another line
> item in the budget, just like defense, and foreign aid. There is
> NO SUCH THING as a separate account just for SS. Anyone
> who claims that the "account was raided" is a fool, it is
> impossible to raid something that isn't there in the first place.
> ...(snipped)...
> The former president screwed this up by deciding to sell a
> lot of short term bonds to make it APPEAR that he had balanced
> the budget. All he really did was hide the debt. In one way I would
> have loved to see Al G. win and see how he would have handled
> the royal screw job Clinton gave the next person elected. Instead
> we have a man who gets handed a bag of lemons and folks start
> bitching when he grabs a blender to make lemonade.

Unfortunately, Steve, you're blaming the wrong person. I used to work as a
trainer for the Social Security Admin in the 70's and 80's, training the
Service Reps, Data Technicians, and Claims Reps (the people who take the
claims and calculated the benefits), so was very well versed in the topic,
the benefit formulas, and the actuarial statistics.

The Social Security Trust Fund was off-budget from its inception in 1939
until the early 80's. There was a huge surplus going into it in the 70's
and 80's as the baby-boomers became well established in the work force. The
surplus was, in fact, being invested. Social Security fund managers and
actuaries fully understood the fund would have to be saved and built up
because they expected a negative cash flow by about 2010-2020, when the
baby-boomers reached retirement age. With proper investing, the actuaries
figured they'd be able to keep the program solvent until something like
2040-2050, as I recall.

But the fund managers aren't politicians. To finance his huge military
build-up, Reagan hit upon the idea of bringing the fund on-budget, where the
surplus made his otherwise huge budget deficit look a little better. Once
on-budget, the "raiding" began, with the incoming surplus being reallocated
to other budget items. Since the Trust Fund is still technically separate,
at least on paper, whatever was reallocated was replaced with IOUs to the
Trust Fund. Bush-I and Clinton didn't dare call Reagan out on the budget
fakery because it would have been political suicide--too many people thought
Reagan was God. Besides, the trust fund surplus was making their own
budgets look better, so why rock the boat?

But now, the situation will soon reverse, with more money soon to be going
out than is coming in. Politicians--regardless of who is in the White
House--would rather see it off-budget again because it will soon begin
making the real budget deficit look worse. Bush-I, Clinton, and Bush-II
haven't done much to fix the problem (and the Bush-II plan is particularly
misleading), but none of them created the problem, either. That was the
work of Reagan.
 
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"Sparky Singer" <Sparky@moon.sun.org> wrote in message
news:9CTYd.14088$o81.12484@fe12.lga...
> Ben Myers wrote:
> > Aha! You are advocating some sort of genetic supremacy then, like
Adolph?
> >
> > Welfare? Like the corporate welfare in the form of enormous farm
subsidies paid
> > to companies like Cargill, and the tax breaks for sheltering corporate
earnings
> > overseas. Ha! Welfare! Please don't get me started on corporate
welfare.
> >
> > I can't stop myself from responding to some of these insulting extremist
> > screeds!!!
> >
> > ... Ben Myers
>
> Right on, Ben! While replying to the rightards changes no minds, it is a
> positive good globally because it lets the rest of the world know that
> not all Americans march to the Bushies' trumpet.

It is also good to read how completely clueless the leftists are. The dream
state they go through life in. The majority of Americans voted FOR BUSH!
Get over it! HES YOUR PRESIDENT! The leftist Democrats such as yourself
just keep pushing more and more people in the Republican ranks. The rabid
rantings of Kennedy and the senile babblings of Byrd just keep killing you
guys. You are on your way to the garbage heap of history.
 
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"Sparky Singer" <Sparky@moon.sun.org> wrote in message
news:QRTYd.14091$pp1.12125@fe12.lga...
> Dogface wrote:
> > Not if you're one of the few paying in versus one of the millions taking
> > out!
>
> LOL - Rush, himself, could not have bloviated better! :)

No facts to contribute as usual. Too many people are working their life
away trying to support their families and the other 3 people on the
government has placed on their backs. It's one thing to ask people for help
but it's another thing when that asking is turned into highway robbery
through the tax code. Enough is enough.
 
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"Sparky Singer" <Sparky@moon.sun.org> wrote in message
news:iDTYd.14089$3f1.13797@fe12.lga...
> Leythos wrote:
> > On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:06:35 +0000, Christopher Muto wrote:
> >
> >>*assuming that the young do actually save money in a retirement account
and
> >>don't choose to opt out of saving, or don't save because they lack
regular
> >>paychecks from employers that do automatic deductions. it is very
likely
> >>that such a plan would ultimately result in a new generation of
impoverished
> >>elderly. what do we do with them? turn our backs on them for being too
> >>stupid to have proactively saved? you know what will happen.
> >
> >
> > Actually, I'm all for letting the stupid and weak die off, it cleans the
> > gene-pool. I don't think it's the responsibility of the government or
any
> > one else to support people that don't plan for their lives, that's where
> > all the problems started - people demanding that government support
them -
> > look at how terrible welfare is.
>
> Drawing checks from a program into which I've contributed for 35-40
> years is hardly being *supported* by the govt! Besides, where are my big
> tax cuts, anyway???

You got them if you actually paid any taxes. The more you paid the more you
got. Or are you suggesting that people that didn't pay taxes should get
money anyways? More governemnt welfare, aka income redistribution...
 
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"Sparky Singer" <Sparky@moon.sun.org> wrote in message
news:9lUYd.14102$td2.2034@fe12.lga...
> Dogface wrote:
> > But the money has been disappearing for over a half a century.
> > Are there enough jail cells for all the politicians on both sides
> > that have stolen our "Trust Fund"? Is their seperate retirement
> > plan similarly looted? No.
>
> If SS was pay as you go for the first several decades, what funds were
> stolen?

It was not "pay as you go"! The politicians turned it into that once the
surpluses got too big to ignore and started spending it. Please do some
research because you're completely out of your league in this discussion.
 
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"Sparky Singer" <Sparky@moon.sun.org> wrote in message
news:HiUYd.14099$w62.10280@fe12.lga...
> Dogface wrote:
> >>Boohoohoohoo. If you don't like it here, no one is keeping you.
> >
> >
> > Why should *I* leave? Can't I just have the politician thieves that
keep
> > taking and spending my retirement fund locked up?
> >
> >
> >>I do agree that SS needs to be changed, by investing for a better
> >>return. If private accounts will help accomplish that, fine. Just
> >>investing the trust fund is simpler though. The wealth created will
> >>provide enough tax revenue to make up for what the Government borrows
> >>now.
> >
> >
> > If the government had done this when SS was first started the excess
money
> > in the SS Trust Fund would have made all the participants millionaires.
> > Unfortunately the thieves raided the fund and spent it and continue to
do
> > so. $151 billion in 2003 was looted from the "Trust Fund". (there will
be
> > more collected than expended until about 2018)
> >
> > Where can I file my theft charges?!
>
> Type it up neatly and send it to your butt buddies in the White House.

I might just do that and then collect my 10% reward of the $1.5 trillion
they stolen.
I might be able to squeak by on $150 billion... 😎
 
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On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 04:13:50 -0500, Sparky Singer wrote:

> Ben Myers wrote:
>> Aha! You are advocating some sort of genetic supremacy then, like Adolph?
>>
>> Welfare? Like the corporate welfare in the form of enormous farm subsidies paid
>> to companies like Cargill, and the tax breaks for sheltering corporate earnings
>> overseas. Ha! Welfare! Please don't get me started on corporate welfare.
>>
>> I can't stop myself from responding to some of these insulting extremist
>> screeds!!!
>>
>> ... Ben Myers
>
> Right on, Ben! While replying to the rightards changes no minds, it is a
> positive good globally because it lets the rest of the world know that
> not all Americans march to the Bushies' trumpet.

I got news for you, but many LARGE Foreign countries support the
corporations more than the US does - take a look at Chip Manufacturers,
Steel Industry, Shipping, Technology, Medical... The US does not put near
as much into their Corporations as does the foreign countries. Keep it up,
you're just proving how little the left knows about the world.

--
spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
 
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On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 04:15:03 -0500, Sparky Singer wrote:
>
> Leythos wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:06:35 +0000, Christopher Muto wrote:
>>
>>>*assuming that the young do actually save money in a retirement account and
>>>don't choose to opt out of saving, or don't save because they lack regular
>>>paychecks from employers that do automatic deductions. it is very likely
>>>that such a plan would ultimately result in a new generation of impoverished
>>>elderly. what do we do with them? turn our backs on them for being too
>>>stupid to have proactively saved? you know what will happen.
>>
>>
>> Actually, I'm all for letting the stupid and weak die off, it cleans the
>> gene-pool. I don't think it's the responsibility of the government or any
>> one else to support people that don't plan for their lives, that's where
>> all the problems started - people demanding that government support them -
>> look at how terrible welfare is.
>
> Drawing checks from a program into which I've contributed for 35-40
> years is hardly being *supported* by the govt! Besides, where are my big
> tax cuts, anyway???

Did I ever say anything about getting social security as being improper -
I said you should not expect to live off of it, you should not expect the
government to bail you out when you don't make good choices, that you
should not have welfare that generates more welfare people, etc..... I
have no problem with people getting back what they pay into the system,
but, beyond that, if you get more than you pay into it (with interest), it
just doesn't make sense (and I'm not talking about SS, I'm talking about
welfare and all other other welfare like programs).

--
spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
 
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Let's have a reality check again. In the 2000 election, Bush II did not get the
majority of the votes. In the 2004 election, Bush II got what? 51% of the
popular vote? A 51% majority is hardly a mandate for ramming unpopular programs
through... Ben Myers

On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 11:05:25 -0500, "Dogface" <DogFace@doghouse.com> wrote:

>
>"Sparky Singer" <Sparky@moon.sun.org> wrote in message
>news:9CTYd.14088$o81.12484@fe12.lga...
>> Ben Myers wrote:
>> > Aha! You are advocating some sort of genetic supremacy then, like
>Adolph?
>> >
>> > Welfare? Like the corporate welfare in the form of enormous farm
>subsidies paid
>> > to companies like Cargill, and the tax breaks for sheltering corporate
>earnings
>> > overseas. Ha! Welfare! Please don't get me started on corporate
>welfare.
>> >
>> > I can't stop myself from responding to some of these insulting extremist
>> > screeds!!!
>> >
>> > ... Ben Myers
>>
>> Right on, Ben! While replying to the rightards changes no minds, it is a
>> positive good globally because it lets the rest of the world know that
>> not all Americans march to the Bushies' trumpet.
>
>It is also good to read how completely clueless the leftists are. The dream
>state they go through life in. The majority of Americans voted FOR BUSH!
>Get over it! HES YOUR PRESIDENT! The leftist Democrats such as yourself
>just keep pushing more and more people in the Republican ranks. The rabid
>rantings of Kennedy and the senile babblings of Byrd just keep killing you
>guys. You are on your way to the garbage heap of history.
>
>
>
 
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Neither did Clinton when he was elected the first time. Did you question
HIS legitimacy? I doubt it. It's the system Ben and has been the system
since the beginning. Don't use it to question one President's win and not
others.

And the discussion about SS has just started. No ramming is going on. But
Dems don't even want to consider anything but tax hikes it seems. More of
the same losing strategy. The world has changed in 70 years and the
Democrats are still mired in the 1930s. People aren't as stupid as they
were. They aren't as willing to listen to the "give us your money and we'll
take care of you" BS and believe it like they used to. History has shown
the politicians can't be trusted with your money otherwise the would be $1.5
trillion dollars in an investment account working for the people that own
it. IT WASN'T THE GOVERNMENT'S MONEY TO SPEND!


<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
news:42347259.1365437@nntp.charter.net...
> Let's have a reality check again. In the 2000 election, Bush II did not
get the
> majority of the votes. In the 2004 election, Bush II got what? 51% of
the
> popular vote? A 51% majority is hardly a mandate for ramming unpopular
programs
> through... Ben Myers
>
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 11:05:25 -0500, "Dogface" <DogFace@doghouse.com>
wrote:
>
> >
> >"Sparky Singer" <Sparky@moon.sun.org> wrote in message
> >news:9CTYd.14088$o81.12484@fe12.lga...
> >> Ben Myers wrote:
> >> > Aha! You are advocating some sort of genetic supremacy then, like
> >Adolph?
> >> >
> >> > Welfare? Like the corporate welfare in the form of enormous farm
> >subsidies paid
> >> > to companies like Cargill, and the tax breaks for sheltering
corporate
> >earnings
> >> > overseas. Ha! Welfare! Please don't get me started on corporate
> >welfare.
> >> >
> >> > I can't stop myself from responding to some of these insulting
extremist
> >> > screeds!!!
> >> >
> >> > ... Ben Myers
> >>
> >> Right on, Ben! While replying to the rightards changes no minds, it is
a
> >> positive good globally because it lets the rest of the world know that
> >> not all Americans march to the Bushies' trumpet.
> >
> >It is also good to read how completely clueless the leftists are. The
dream
> >state they go through life in. The majority of Americans voted FOR BUSH!
> >Get over it! HES YOUR PRESIDENT! The leftist Democrats such as yourself
> >just keep pushing more and more people in the Republican ranks. The
rabid
> >rantings of Kennedy and the senile babblings of Byrd just keep killing
you
> >guys. You are on your way to the garbage heap of history.
> >
> >
> >
>
 
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On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 17:08:42 +0000, Ben Myers wrote:
>
> Let's have a reality check again. In the 2000 election, Bush II did not get the
> majority of the votes. In the 2004 election, Bush II got what? 51% of the
> popular vote? A 51% majority is hardly a mandate for ramming unpopular programs
> through... Ben Myers

Ben, when Clinton left office the economy was on the way down hard, the IT
community was experiencing a large loss of jobs that Clinton did nothing
to protect, and the US was no safer than when he took office, in fact, it
was worse off. During Bush I've seen the economy come back, seen IT jobs
return to the US, and seen our country become more secure. I'll back Bush
instead of the lamers that want to do feel-good things that don't help.

--
spam999free@rrohio.com
remove 999 in order to email me
 
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It really is shame that you don't know half as much about the President's
plan as you think you do.
Then, you might just know enough to properly discuss it.
Frankly, I don't have the time or the inclination to attempt explaining it
to someone who knows so little about it that he thinks that "Wall Streeters"
will make huge profits from it and the individual will be left holding the
bag..
And even less inclination to attempt explaining it all to someone that
doesn't already know, that over the long haul, stock and bond investing has
out performed just about everything except choice real estate.




"Sparky Singer" <Sparky@moon.sun.org> wrote in message
news:OMtYd.1883$Sy.1588@fe10.lga...
> Irene wrote:
>> Dogface, ya dun brok da code.
>>
>> You also just figured out why so many politicians are opposed to the
>> President. Every penny that is placed in a private investment account is
>> a penny that those same politicians can't touch.
>
> <snort>
>
> Why is there never a discussion of the fees the Wall Streeters will charge
> us to maintain these private accounts? The cruel hoax is that *if* the
> worker gets lucky and actually makes some $$$ in his private account, it
> will just offset the cuts Bush will be making. The "profits" are pie in
> the sky, while the cuts in benefits will be real & universal.
>
> What makes the "private investment accounts" any more sacrosanct than the
> SS trust fund? Bush & his butt buddies have certainly rooted their way
> thru that.
 
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By the way, the money that my husband and I made in the markets that you
don't think are good enough for Social Security is currently being counted
with an "M" after it And several multiples at that.

"Sparky Singer" <Sparky@moon.sun.org> wrote in message
news:OMtYd.1883$Sy.1588@fe10.lga...
> Irene wrote:
>> Dogface, ya dun brok da code.
>>
>> You also just figured out why so many politicians are opposed to the
>> President. Every penny that is placed in a private investment account is
>> a penny that those same politicians can't touch.
>
> <snort>
>
> Why is there never a discussion of the fees the Wall Streeters will charge
> us to maintain these private accounts? The cruel hoax is that *if* the
> worker gets lucky and actually makes some $$$ in his private account, it
> will just offset the cuts Bush will be making. The "profits" are pie in
> the sky, while the cuts in benefits will be real & universal.
>
> What makes the "private investment accounts" any more sacrosanct than the
> SS trust fund? Bush & his butt buddies have certainly rooted their way
> thru that.
 
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What was JFK's margin of victory?

<ben_myers_spam_me_not @ charter.net (Ben Myers)> wrote in message
news:42347259.1365437@nntp.charter.net...
> Let's have a reality check again. In the 2000 election, Bush II did not
> get the
> majority of the votes. In the 2004 election, Bush II got what? 51% of
> the
> popular vote? A 51% majority is hardly a mandate for ramming unpopular
> programs
> through... Ben Myers
>
> On Sun, 13 Mar 2005 11:05:25 -0500, "Dogface" <DogFace@doghouse.com>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>"Sparky Singer" <Sparky@moon.sun.org> wrote in message
>>news:9CTYd.14088$o81.12484@fe12.lga...
>>> Ben Myers wrote:
>>> > Aha! You are advocating some sort of genetic supremacy then, like
>>Adolph?
>>> >
>>> > Welfare? Like the corporate welfare in the form of enormous farm
>>subsidies paid
>>> > to companies like Cargill, and the tax breaks for sheltering corporate
>>earnings
>>> > overseas. Ha! Welfare! Please don't get me started on corporate
>>welfare.
>>> >
>>> > I can't stop myself from responding to some of these insulting
>>> > extremist
>>> > screeds!!!
>>> >
>>> > ... Ben Myers
>>>
>>> Right on, Ben! While replying to the rightards changes no minds, it is a
>>> positive good globally because it lets the rest of the world know that
>>> not all Americans march to the Bushies' trumpet.
>>
>>It is also good to read how completely clueless the leftists are. The
>>dream
>>state they go through life in. The majority of Americans voted FOR BUSH!
>>Get over it! HES YOUR PRESIDENT! The leftist Democrats such as yourself
>>just keep pushing more and more people in the Republican ranks. The rabid
>>rantings of Kennedy and the senile babblings of Byrd just keep killing you
>>guys. You are on your way to the garbage heap of history.
>>
>>
>>
>
 
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I think your a little mixed up---it's Bill O' Reilly that claims to do the
bloviating.

"Sparky Singer" <Sparky@moon.sun.org> wrote in message
news:QRTYd.14091$pp1.12125@fe12.lga...
> Dogface wrote:
>> Not if you're one of the few paying in versus one of the millions taking
>> out!
>
> LOL - Rush, himself, could not have bloviated better! :)
 
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You're wrong on both counts, but I don't have the time to explain it to you.

"Steve W." <Dugdug56@what.com> wrote in message news:4233c19b_1@127.0.0.1...
> What I want to know is who actually believes there is a "Trust Fund"
> There never has been or will be one, Unless the individual accounts
> happen. ALL monies go into the general fund. They are then budgeted out
> to pay for whatever. SS is just another line item in the budget, just
> like defense, and foreign aid. There is NO SUCH THING as a separate
> account just for SS. Anyone who claims that the "account was raided" is
> a fool, it is impossible to raid something that isn't there in the first
> place. Go get a copy of a federal budget (warning the copies are friggen
> HUGE) and all you will find are allotments by line for the different
> items that money is spent on, and listings of projected levels of
> incoming money (taxes, loans, interest). The govt. looks at those
> numbers and then decides if they need to sell bonds if the incoming is
> less than the outgoing. Normally this isn't a problem because they issue
> a long term bond and stagger them so that the overage can be worked down
> over time. The former president screwed this up by deciding to sell a
> lot of short term bonds to make it APPEAR that he had balanced the
> budget. All he really did was hide the debt. In one way I would have
> loved to see Al G. win and see how he would have handled the royal screw
> job Clinton gave the next person elected. Instead we have a man who gets
> handed a bag of lemons and folks start bitching when he grabs a blender
> to make lemonade.
>
> Now back to Dell problems and support.
>
> --
> Steve W.
>
> "Dogface" <DogFace@doghouse.com> wrote in message
> news:dxNYd.973$dR.389@fe04.lga...
>> > Boohoohoohoo. If you don't like it here, no one is keeping you.
>>
>> Why should *I* leave? Can't I just have the politician thieves that
> keep
>> taking and spending my retirement fund locked up?
>>
>> > I do agree that SS needs to be changed, by investing for a better
>> > return. If private accounts will help accomplish that, fine. Just
>> > investing the trust fund is simpler though. The wealth created will
>> > provide enough tax revenue to make up for what the Government
> borrows
>> > now.
>>
>> If the government had done this when SS was first started the excess
> money
>> in the SS Trust Fund would have made all the participants
> millionaires.
>> Unfortunately the thieves raided the fund and spent it and continue to
> do
>> so. $151 billion in 2003 was looted from the "Trust Fund". (there
> will be
>> more collected than expended until about 2018)
>>
>> Where can I file my theft charges?!
>>
>> http://www.ssa.gov/OACT/TR/TR04/II_highlights.html#wp76460
>>
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> ----== Posted via Newsfeeds.Com - Unlimited-Uncensored-Secure Usenet
> News==----
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What the hell are you blathering about now?! Sparky Springer is the one who
made the comment. One of YOUR "butt buddies"! (to use one of his
compliments)

"Christopher Muto" <muto@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:1z7Zd.1936$qN3.1421@trndny01...
> this comment is sick and evil and you should be ashamed of yourself.
> furthermore, you should apologize.
>
> why must you, irene, and leythos always make this (and ever other)
> discussion personal. and why must you resort to name calling. it is as
if
> you have never had an adult conversation in your lives. your complete
lack
> respect for opposing points of views and dismissal of ideas without any
> consideration make you appear to be among the most unAmerican people that
i
> know.
 
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well those bush federal tax cuts only went to the very rich, and you may
have noticed that since they went into effect that your local city, state,
and property taxes have been increased to cover the lack of federal funds at
the local level. another bush weapon of mass distraction! the irony is the
people that feel they were good for them as individuals and the country.

"Sparky Singer" <Sparky@moon.sun.org> wrote in message
news:iDTYd.14089$3f1.13797@fe12.lga...
> Leythos wrote:
>> On Fri, 11 Mar 2005 14:06:35 +0000, Christopher Muto wrote:
>>
>>>*assuming that the young do actually save money in a retirement account
>>>and don't choose to opt out of saving, or don't save because they lack
>>>regular paychecks from employers that do automatic deductions. it is
>>>very likely that such a plan would ultimately result in a new generation
>>>of impoverished elderly. what do we do with them? turn our backs on
>>>them for being too stupid to have proactively saved? you know what will
>>>happen.
>>
>>
>> Actually, I'm all for letting the stupid and weak die off, it cleans the
>> gene-pool. I don't think it's the responsibility of the government or any
>> one else to support people that don't plan for their lives, that's where
>> all the problems started - people demanding that government support
>> them -
>> look at how terrible welfare is.
>
> Drawing checks from a program into which I've contributed for 35-40 years
> is hardly being *supported* by the govt! Besides, where are my big tax
> cuts, anyway???
 
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Christopher Muto wrote:
> well those bush federal tax cuts only went to the very rich, and you may
> have noticed that since they went into effect that your local city, state,
> and property taxes have been increased to cover the lack of federal funds at
> the local level. another bush weapon of mass distraction! the irony is the
> people that feel they were good for them as individuals and the country.

I noticed. <sigh>
 
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"Christopher Mvto" <mvto@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:1f7Zd.1930$qN3.1075@trndny01...
> well those bvsh federal tax cvts only went to the very rich, and yov may
> have noticed that since they went into effect that yovr local city, state,
> and property taxes have been increased to cover the lack of federal fvnds
at
> the local level. another bvsh weapon of mass distraction! the irony is
the
> people that feel they were good for them as individvals and the covntry.

Politicians raising taxes is a way of life! Yov lefties know that all to
well becavse that is yovr solvtion to everything. It shovldn't be the
responsibility of the federal government to be fvnding programs at the local
level. If there is a local need then it shovld be fvnded there and not
dictated ovt of some hvge centralized bvrocrasy in Washington. Didn't the
Soviet Union prove that sort of centralized planning doesn't work?

And jvst what did yov expect Bvsh to do to get the economy going again and
ovt of the Clinton recession? Fvnny how yov lefties don't harp on the
economy anymore now that it is growing jobs. Yov want to blame Bvsh for
everything and never acknowledge when he's svccessfvl. The constant whining
of the Democrats has become their trademark. And the more they do it, the
more they have to whine abovt. Keep vp the good work whiners.
 
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On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 03:08:45 +0000, Christopher Muto wrote:
>
> well those bush federal tax cuts only went to the very rich, and you may
> have noticed that since they went into effect that your local city, state,
> and property taxes have been increased to cover the lack of federal funds at
> the local level. another bush weapon of mass distraction! the irony is the
> people that feel they were good for them as individuals and the country.

Middle class workers and the non-working poor don't create jobs, when was
the last time you saw a person on Welfare or a factory worker create 5 new
jobs in the community?

Increases in local taxes have nothing to do with the Bush terms, that's
local greed and your own desires to take care of everyone.

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On Mon, 14 Mar 2005 03:30:05 +0000, Christopher Muto wrote:
>
> why must you, irene, and leythos always make this (and ever other)
> discussion personal. and why must you resort to name calling.

I don't make it personal. If you call lumping people in as sheep or
democrats or republicans or trolls name calling them you should consider a
new thread.

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On Sat, 12 Mar 2005 23:26:33 -0500, "Steve W." <Dugdug56@what.com>
wrote:

>What I want to know is who actually believes there is a "Trust Fund"
>There never has been or will be one,

Me. Look at Dogface's link for details. Like all investments these
days it's a book entry, not a stack of $50 bills somewhere. And no, I
realize it's not allocated to any individual in particular, and yes, I
think it should be.
--
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your are correct that you are unable to explain the presidents plan because
he does not have a plan. he is only trying to get people to agree that
there is a 'crisis' (which there is not) and to label opponents of his
'crisis' theory as obstructionists.

it is becoming abundantly clear that his real plan is to blur the huge
deficit imbalance he has created with his iraq debacle and his tax cuts to
the rich with the cost conversion that will come from a conversion to an
unnecessary new social security plan.

bush's own web site offers no details of a 'plan.' bush's web site simply
tries to promote the idea that there is a crisis and that a solution must be
found.

you once again seem to believe something that is not actually a fact but
some invention of your own imagination.

"Irene" <girlsrule@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:OY9Zd.52955$uR.28214@fe06.lga...
> It really is shame that you don't know half as much about the President's
> plan as you think you do.
> Then, you might just know enough to properly discuss it.
> Frankly, I don't have the time or the inclination to attempt explaining it
> to someone who knows so little about it that he thinks that "Wall
> Streeters" will make huge profits from it and the individual will be left
> holding the bag..
> And even less inclination to attempt explaining it all to someone that
> doesn't already know, that over the long haul, stock and bond investing
> has out performed just about everything except choice real estate.
>
>
>
>
> "Sparky Singer" <Sparky@moon.sun.org> wrote in message
> news:OMtYd.1883$Sy.1588@fe10.lga...
>> Irene wrote:
>>> Dogface, ya dun brok da code.
>>>
>>> You also just figured out why so many politicians are opposed to the
>>> President. Every penny that is placed in a private investment account is
>>> a penny that those same politicians can't touch.
>>
>> <snort>
>>
>> Why is there never a discussion of the fees the Wall Streeters will
>> charge us to maintain these private accounts? The cruel hoax is that *if*
>> the worker gets lucky and actually makes some $$$ in his private account,
>> it will just offset the cuts Bush will be making. The "profits" are pie
>> in the sky, while the cuts in benefits will be real & universal.
>>
>> What makes the "private investment accounts" any more sacrosanct than the
>> SS trust fund? Bush & his butt buddies have certainly rooted their way
>> thru that.
>
>