Dell's XPS 720 H2C Hot and Cool

[poisondeathray]

I agree with you on almost all your points! I've been reading Tom's since 1996 and I see the change. I'm not in disagreement with you on the quality of the article.

I disagree on your definition of "performance." Yes, a XEON based solution will beat the XPS on oracle, database, webserver, and maybe even in some multithreaded applications.

It will lose on any gaming situation. The XPS is for gamers. Very few dual socket mobos support true SLI x16/x16 electrical properly (If any). Even fewer have BIOS options for memory overclocking. Both are crucial for "the best" gaming system. A 3.73GHz (even dualcore) will destroy 2.66GHz zillion socket system anyday of the week for gameplay.

I still wouldn't buy this system, but that's just me.

 

[Whizzard9992]

There are situations where the XEON will come out slower thatn the XPS, and vise-versa. Overall, the XEON will come out on top; even in gaming.

The XEON will have FAR more memory bandwidth, albeit more latency. Some games are latency-sensitive, where others are more bandwidth intense.

Most newer games are SMP-aware. Some games that are tied to a single cores will benefit from the higher clocks. If that's really what you're looking for, then an X6800 dual-core might be more your flavor.

The x4 path 'limitation' doesn't affect performance:

Since the HDR/SM3.0 tests heavily stress both the CPU and graphics bus we figured the x4 PCI Express lane limitation would cause a bottleneck in this test. Our initial assumptions turned out to be incorrect.

(http://www.anandtech.com/video/showdoc.aspx?i=2990&p=3)

The problem with the XEON is that it isn't designed for gaming. That doesn't mean that they're not better or worse at gaming (take the Opteron, for instance, which was an enthusiast favorite for a while). It means it's damned near impossible to find a reputable gaming article, because Intel doesn't want XEON marketed to enthusiasts. The XEON and C2D are marketed for different segments. When you get to a $7,000 gaming-rig, though, those lines become blurred, and the XEON becomes a viable option.

It's a trade-off. Overall, though, you get more power with the XEON platform. The XEON is simply more bang for the same buck. The 15K SAS drives and additional cores will always shine, no matter what you do.

 

[coolbluesound]

I actually just joined the forum to add my 2 cents to this discussion.

darklife41: I understand your points and they are very much valid. But you are forgetting another differentiating factor between Dell and a small custom computer shop. Dell has been around for 20+ years. Livelihoods of thousands of employees and the operations of countless customers rely heavily on Dell's success as a company. When you buy support from Dell, regardless of how bad it may be, you can rely on the support being there throughout the 3-4 year period of the entire support agreement. The chances that Dell may throw in the towel and disappear in the next few years are extremely low.

When you are buying from a custom shop on the other hand, you are not only betting on the survival of the shop throughout the support period, but you are also betting on the assumption that you are not getting screwed by some small-time entrepreneur wannabe whose business will go down in flames even before your order is completed.

Your small shop may indeed be the best place in Australia to buy a computer from, but there are also countless horror stories about small shops screwing people over. Just look over to resellerratings.com forums and search for "flawless computers". The guy was perfectly operational for almost a year and even had some big time reviewers on the net purchasing from him. A month or two ago, in the midst of some $20,000+ in incomplete orders, he disappeared. Some were able to get their money back through credit cards etc. Some others were not so lucky.

Therefore expecting to pay $1000-$2000 less on $5-$10K system is normal when you are buying from a custom shop, as the risk-premium for the counterparty's probability of default (i.e. credit risk).

In my opinion you should in fact be thankful that Dell is marking up their prices so much, since it gives guys like you an edge to compete with: Customers out there who aren't willing to pay for the security of dealing with a gigantic multi-national corporation, can instead bring their business to you.

For the home user who doesn't want headaches, and doesn't know how to put together his own overclocked gaming PC, however, Dell's are still a great alternative to Alienware and Voodoo and that bunch.

Bottom line: Enthusiasts are right: Dells ARE overpriced. But don't rush to think home users who are willing to pay the difference are "ignorant". There is something to be said about the "peace of mind" factor. Now small shops can rant forever about how they provide that peace of mind, but unless they have 20+ years of data to support their claims, it's all advertisement.

Personally speaking, having almost been cheated out of my $6K by a custom shop, I am willing to throw in a few more bucks to buy from Dell. But I'd rather wait for their air-cooled 720, instead of paying $$$$ for their liquid cooling.

 

[Phrozt]

There's only one thing I'd like to mention about the article.

At the end he says, "Builders might be able to save a scant few dollars by assembling a similar system themselves, ... "

But I don't consider $4000 (THG high end system vs XPS) a "scant few dollars," considering you could literally build 2 THG high end systems for the price of one XPS...

 

[sbsk2000]

I actually just joined the forum to add my 2 cents to this discussion.

Me too.

When you are buying from a custom shop on the other hand, you are not only betting on the survival of the shop throughout the support period, but you are also betting on the assumption that you are not getting screwed by some small-time entrepreneur wannabe whose business will go down in flames even before your order is completed.

This is very true. A company's credit and history are very important, and many refuse to take the risk of doing business with a company lacking such prerequisites, especially on an item of the enthusiast-level.

I'm also curious, what is the exact definition of a 'custom' shop the participants of this forum refers to? Can a company such as OverdrivePC (who has been acquired, by the way, by Velocity Micro) or other not-as-big boutique shops qualify, or is the term reserved for a company that is more local and not as well known? Either way, to continually point out that a 'custom' shop is a better deal seems meaningless. Obvious reasons include:

1. Such a shop cannot afford to charge such premiums and have no grounds to.
2. No customer will take heed (i.e., no one will buy).
3. Lacks buying-power.
4. A 'cheaper' (or 'more-bang-for-the-buck') is really their only selling point, which, for someone like myself, means nothing.

Just because we are talking about a field that has allowed more user participation (i.e., acquiring individual parts for assembly), it does not make it so different from many other industries. For example, buying a $4 bag of chips from an unknown (or new) maker may be considered worth the risk, but when considering a $200K (or a $50K) car, such risks are not worth taking, and offering only a cheaper sell to someone who is willing to drop such amounts of cash is, again, meaningless, and only considered cheap advertisement on public boards. Buying an enthusiast-level computer at premium prices (mind you, the top-of-the-line parts these 'custom' shops acquire are already at premium prices) are no different. Can such a 'custom' shop provide me with as high level of assurance than the 'bigger guys'? And more importantly, since we are on the subject of overclocked computers, are such 'custom' shops have the expertise and ability to provide guaranteed/warrantied systems at such speeds?

For the home user who doesn't want headaches, and doesn't know how to put together his own overclocked gaming PC, however, Dell's are still a great alternative to Alienware and Voodoo and that bunch.

This has proven very true for, as I have ordered the 720H2C system. Please believe me when I say, this was not an easy (and somewhat painful) choice - This is my first Dell. I have, of course, considered many boutiques shops, which include: OverdrivePC (as mentioned), Velocity Micro, Falcon NW, VoodooPC, etc. Obviously, Dell was not among my picks, but in the last few days of considering, I read the article in question. Albeit the somewhat pro-Dell article, I just could not ignore the amazing specs this system had to offer, so much so that the moniker 'Dell' was literally the only hurdle to overcome. With this new runner-up among my system picks, I spent some more time considering and finally came to the conclusion that , given the current offerings, I simply cannot rule this system out. Again, it was not easy, but I am hoping to have the same level of enjoyment that inthere is having.

 

[rgb66rggb]

The position that not everyone wanting a performance machine has aspirations to become involved in the mechanics of overclocking is accurate. Personally, I am looking for a machine that will survive for the next three to four years for home use in a graphics-intensive environment, and so I was impressed by some of the 720 benchmarks and reviews from other sites. The current runner up is a Velocity Micro box. It was interesting to see THG's comparison to their own OC machine, but as I am not going to build my own I was more impressed (and a bit surprised) by the performance of xp vs vista on identical 720s.

With respect to memory and 32- vs 64-bit OSs and what can be seen by Windows, in a nutshell it comes to this: 32 bit can address up to 4 gig; 64 bit significantly more. The can't-see-all-4-gig issue for 32-bit Windows users is also a problem seen by 64-bit users when they max out their system memory as well. Essentially the "problem" is that under 32-bit, only 4 gig of memory can be addressed which includes system and memory on perhipheral components such as video cards and others. So the more memory these have, it has to be "subtracted" from the 4 gig system memory thus a lower amount than physically present reported as available. Were one to tally all of the memory components in use the total would be the 4 gig. A better explanation can be found on the MSDN site at http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605/en-us. It is not a XP or Vista issue per se, and more interestingly the same type of limitation holds true for any maxed-out 64-bit systems.

Finally, in web-searching for other reviews I came across the following on LexisNexis, which - for folks such as myself looking for opinions - reaffirms the performance of the 720 boxes.

August 3, 2007 Friday
VANCOUVER EDITION

TECHNOLOGY; Gadgets; Pg. 14

Performance with a high price;
The ultimate machine for truly serious players

BY STEVE TILLEY

I don't generally consult a medical encyclopedia when doing gadget reviews. But there are exceptions to every rule.

And this book says that a person can survive just fine with one kidney, as long as they take care of their health. So I'm wondering... what's the going rate for a kidney on the black market?

Specifically, can you get $7,000 for one? Because I'm thinking of giving up an organ to secure my own Dell XPS 720 H2C, one of the biggest, baddest gaming PCs ever made.

Premium computer performance is always a moving target, and today's hottest system will be 2009's mid-range model.

That said, the XPS 720 is currently one of the fastest pre-built desktop computers you can buy, and by a fairly obscene margin.

TECHNICAL TERMS

In technical terms, it's got a factory overclocked 3.46 GHz Intel Core Extreme QX6700 quad-core processor with a custom-designed liquid cooling system, plus dual SLI-enabled 768 MB NVIDIA GeForce 8800 GTX graphics cards. And that's the base configuration, from which you can upgrade to even more hardcore components.

In layman's terms? Oh, sweet mama. This thing just screams.

I was almost afraid to unleash the ebony leviathan in my home, lest it start attacking and devouring my other electronics as an assertion of its dominance. But unleash it I did, parking Dell's loaner unit next to my suddenly smaller-looking desk, where it sort of resembled a cross between an alien spaceship and a piece of Philippe Starck furniture. Not that I've ever seen either up close.

NEW DESTINATION

I'm not the guy you want to come to for a fully scientific, benchmark-festooned breakdown of what a computer like this can do, and you'll find plenty of those on the Net anyway. I'm more about the destination than the journey, and in this case the destination was unlike anywhere I'd been before.

In every game I ran -- from Half-Life 2 to Flight Simulator X to Lost Planet to Shadowrun -- I maxed out the resolution, pushed every visual quality slider to its highest setting, turned on every option possible and tried to bring the monster to its knees.

No dice. While Flight Simulator X did give the XPS 720 a run for its money, the game was still ticking along at a good 25+ frames per second with everything -- EVERYTHING -- cranked to 11. Other games, like Lost Planet, ran far better and slicker than anything I've seen on a PC at "normal" settings.

It's going to be a while before any game genuinely pushes the limits of the XPS 720. How I wish I could have snagged an advance copy of EA's upcoming shooter Crysis to run on this onyx behemoth. With its hyper-real visuals, it might have proven a capable match for the sable titan. (OK, I'm starting to run out of synonyms for "black" and "giant".)

Beyond its undeniable power, one of the most noticeable -- and welcome -- features of the XPS 720 is how quiet it is. Normally, a rig this huge would require several large fans to dissipate the egg-frying heat generated by its multiple CPUs and GPUs. With its custom-designed liquid cooling system on the CPU, the XPS 720 needs fewer fans, meaning much less noise.

Is there a downside to this dream machine? Just one: The aneurism-inducing price. I don't know anyone with enough free cash to drop six or seven grand on a PC, no matter how smokin' it is. I wish I knew those kind of people though. And that they were really eccentric and generous.

And so, I finally had to send the XPS 720 back from whence it came, like poor Igor on The Hilarious House Of Frightenstein who was never allowed to keep the animals that Dr. Pet Vet brought with him. It's the rules, see. And sometimes there's no exception.

Dell XPS 720 H2C high-performance PC

Price: $6,248 and up, depending on configuration, at dell.ca

Verdict: Although this is not the first gaming-friendly rig Dell has created, it's the first one to really push the technological envelope. The result is an insanely powerful computer that will blow a nuclear crater in your wallet.

August 3, 2007

 

[rgb66rggb]

The trailing period in the sentence referring to that KB link got caught in the URL - try this instead:

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/929605/en-us

 

[Globalhawk]

Hey gents,
I am new to this site and a noob to the PC gaming world. I just bought the 720 XPS for many of the same reasons inthere stated.
1. I have no clue how to go into the Bio's and Oc this thing and wouldn't even attempt it!

2. I'm sure the shop's in my area could of built a machine like this for less, but everytime I go into one of those stores the guy behind the counter treats me like a dumbass because I have no clue what he's talking about. Sure Dell support centers might not be the best, but they don't make me feel like an idiot when I have a "dumb" question.

I agree with both sides of this arguement over this article and I can see how this would make you guys upset. The thing is the majority of the people out there aren't as smart as you guys are and really don't want to or have the time to learn how to do what you do, so spending the money is a non-issue until you get deeper into it later on in life. I just want to turn the thing on and play whatever game I buy without it crashing or lagging.

I learned alot from what you all have posted about this machine and even though the article might not have been true from your perspective you can still help those that are new, by telling us the "What now". There are guys like me out there that may not post but would like your advice on how to make this a better system or show us why you think you can build a better one. Can you really build a better machine for the price of this one, or is it just the value you are refferring to? If the components are the same what makes your system any better besides the price and length of warranty? Thanks

 

[EVILNOD]

What did DELL do that all 4GB are recognized?

Nothing dell has offered 4 gigs for there computers and done tell you that only half of it will be there. Same as for other things they don't tell you.
Go look at the site! upgade to 4 gigs and not a thing about the 4 gigs not all being seen on the buy this now if you go to the fine print on the bottom there it is!! nice trick :twisted:

http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DDCWAA3&s=dhs

:

Well... so why THG didn't mention that??????? At least the part that only 2GB wil be recognized by Windows...

What's the point in testing a 4GB machine that only "sees" 2GB?????

Why didn't THG just say 2GB machine????

Why didn't THG test under x64 OS?

Why don't we ever see a midget burial or an ex-gay? 😀

the test machine is what dell gave them to test

I read the review vary fast as for I was pi$$ that Tom's would review a Dell
didn't care about a PC that i could build for a lot less $$$$

Also I'm a dell hater so with that in mind

The Pc at base price is 5999.00 USD if you look at the test PC it has every thing you can upgrade on it. So the price is a hole h3ll of a lot more then 5999.00. Look at the price of the ram for 4 gigs and then go look at geting 4 gigs of the same ram from the egg and see a huge price diffrents

Also just to let you know the link is to a random PC. Here is the link to the test PC if you build your own PCs than you should get a good Hehe out of this!!
http://configure.us.dell.com/dellstore/config.aspx?c=us&cs=19&l=en&oc=DXCWZH4&s=dhs

unless workstation and completely different then server, otherwise you can address more then 2GB. all you need to do is enable PAE in boot.ini file. PAE is disable by default to all system. dell may simply just enable the option b4 ship it out.

however, if you ever rebuild the OS on those dell system and forget to edit boot.ini, you may not able to see those 2 extra GB you pay for.