Question Electrical issues ?

[ragez0r]

great, so my gaming laptop has zero security here.... not fun putting 1500$cad at risk.....but you know i will

quick question... if i charge a 12v battery via land power... what bad in electricity (static, voltage fluctuations) can actually be transfered to said battery ?? or does the conversion from ac to dc neutralize it somehow ???

PS.. went to a PC store, saw a metal pc case for 1350 php.. told myself that i can get cheaper.. so i did.. 500 php online.. effectively 10$usd... will receive in 7 days or sooner... ill try to connect a photo...

kinda ordered it without checking the dimensions
wtv, if youve ever watched a Canadian show called "the red green show", you know that with duct tape, i can do anything

 

[ragez0r]

Read this discussion, especially the bit about Dell not recommending a "modified sine wave" mains input to one of their laptop PSUs. It's the laptop brick that might be damaged first. Again, the quote from Dirty Harry springs to mind. It's your choice.

https://electronics.stackexchange.c...er-destroy-damage-the-ac-adapter-for-a-laptop

yep, glanced over it... but it seems that this will only occur if i use the UPS.. and so far we both agree that my UPS is about as good as a 3 month old cheeseburger ... however if i just use an ordinary house (land) power and use a cable that is already making contact with contact with the metal beam in my home that takes care of the grounding issue, what is left exactly ? irregular voltage ??? static ???? if the voltage goes too high, i imagine the GFCI plug that i use will pop

 

[ragez0r]

cyberpower VP1600ELCD UPS

960 watts.. claims to be pure sine wave

hefty 6300 php..... umm 1600VA on battery it says simulated sine wave

and i dont understand the rest of the jargon

 

[Misgar]

kinda ordered it without checking the dimensions

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear😡! Most people check the case dimensions before ordering, so they have a good chance of fitting all the parts inside. Get out your oxyacetylene cutter, plus a big sledge hammer, to squash everything in. Still, if it's a total disaster, you can take it back to the shop. It should be OK, but........ (i give up).

use a cable that is already making contact with contact with the metal beam in my home that takes care of the grounding issue,

As discussed earlier, the "earth" wire you've used may not be thick enough to handle very high fault currents and the Bulldog clip used to hold it against the beam isn't anywhere near meeting electrical grounding requirements. Still, it's your life that's at risk, not mine.

if the voltage goes too high, i imagine the GFCI plug that i use will pop

Wrong. GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters), also known as Residual Current Breakers, or as I still call them, Earth Leakage Circuit Breakers, are not designed to protect from over-Voltage.

Instead, as the term "Current" in the name implies, they're they're designed to trip when the Current returning to the Neutral connection is at least 20mA (or 30mA) lower than the current entering through the Line input. Nothing to do with Voltage.

I've seen (and measured) excessively high voltages in hotel rooms whilst abroad:-

In one instance when the town mains failed, the hotel staff switched on a large diesel powered generator, set to 300V AC. All the light fittings in my room exploded in showers of sparks and gobs of molten metal dripped out of a fluoresecent lamp ballast.

Another time, I returned to a different hotel room to find all the lights had blown (literally). Using my torch, I found shards of broken glass from overhead bulbs littering the floor, the bed and inside my open suitcase. I measured the voltage at the wall and found it was 330V AC. A small petrol powered generator outside was screaming its head off, with a broken speed governor.

so far we both agree that my UPS is about as good as a 3 month old cheeseburger

Your UPS is better than a 'poke in the eye with a sharp stick', in as much as it hasn't killed your computer yet, but without measuring the AC output waveform on a 'scope, it's impossible to diagnose how "good" it is at long distance.

irregular voltage ??? static ????

Irregular voltage certainly, short duration transients, surges, dips, brown outs, RFI, yes, but I don't associate "static" with low impedance power circuits, only with high impedance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_electricity

so my gaming laptop has zero security here....

No laptop is 100% secure anywhere on Earth, unless switched off and locked in a waterproof, earthquake proof, GBU-57A/B MOP proof, asteroid proof, subduction zone proof, End of the Universe proof, bank vault. Even then, the battery will eventually leak (maybe). It might also get dropped or stolen.

 

[ragez0r]

Read this discussion, especially the bit about Dell not recommending a "modified sine wave" mains input to one of their laptop PSUs. It's the laptop brick that might be damaged first. Again, the quote from Dirty Harry springs to mind. It's your choice.

https://electronics.stackexchange.c...er-destroy-damage-the-ac-adapter-for-a-laptop

read it.. and im confused how a modified sine wave inverter can damage a laptop but not a pc.. im told the pc metal case was shipped out today soo.. 7 days as of today ill dump everything in there.. and i also found a UPS online... 7000 php.... and seller claims that it is PURE sine wave inverter.... so until i can spring for 7000 php or 150$cad... (not certain seeing as how the CAD is sinking faster than the titanic... so is it a huge deal if i connect the laptop to land power (using my home made grounding or earthing cable) ??? or am i at risk for that static that ive heard of so much.. which is odd seeing as how i charge both my smartphone and tablet via land power.... shoulnt they be also subject to the same risk of damage ???

PS i call wall sockets, land power... to avoid confusion...

 

[ragez0r]

Oh dear, oh dear, oh dear, oh dear😡! Most people check the case dimensions before ordering, so they have a good chance of fitting all the parts inside. Get out your oxyacetylene cutter, plus a big sledge hammer, to squash everything in. Still, if it's a total disaster, you can take it back to the shop. It should be OK, but........ (i give up).

understood, but measuring the mobo.. i get 20cm x 15cm... i dont really see a major issue.. worst case scenario i screw the psu to the outer case ... thats what you are telling me that i need right ? contact between the computer components and a metal body... or am i misreading you here ???

As discussed earlier, the "earth" wire you've used may not be thick enough to handle very high fault currents and the Bulldog clip used to hold it against the beam isn't anywhere near meeting electrical grounding requirements. Still, it's your life that's at risk, not mine.

well if your only concern is lightning strikes sized voltage, shouldnt i just unplug the cpu entirely ???

should of mentioned there are rebar metal sticking out all along the edge of the roof.. wouldnt that absorb some of said lightning ???
and yes Philippines does have nasty thunderstorms heck they even call this period "rainy season" but ive only witnessed 1 lightning strike during my stay here

Wrong. GFCI (Ground Fault Circuit Interrupters), also known as Residual Current Breakers, or as I still call them, Earth Leakage Circuit Breakers, are not designed to protect from over-Voltage.

Instead, as the term "Current" in the name implies, they're they're designed to trip when the Current returning to the Neutral connection is at least 20mA (or 30mA) lower than the current entering through the Line input. Nothing to do with Voltage.

I've seen (and measured) excessively high voltages in hotel rooms whilst abroad:-

In one instance when the town mains failed, the hotel staff switched on a large diesel powered generator, set to 300V AC. All the light fittings in my room exploded in showers of sparks and gobs of molten metal dripped out of a fluoresecent lamp ballast.

Another time, I returned to a different hotel room to find all the lights had blown (literally). Using my torch, I found shards of broken glass from overhead bulbs littering the floor, the bed and inside my open suitcase. I measured the voltage at the wall and found it was 330V AC. A small petrol powered generator outside was screaming its head off, with a broken speed governor.


Your UPS is better than a 'poke in the eye with a sharp stick', in as much as it hasn't killed your computer yet, but without measuring the AC output waveform on a 'scope, it's impossible to diagnose how "good" it is at long distance.

im sorry but im rather reluctant to insert any metal object in any electrical socket.. that elementary school teaching got me this far wont question it now.. and also my multimeter lost both its needle pointers because it is beyond cheap chinese quality....

Irregular voltage certainly, short duration transients, surges, dips, brown outs, RFI, yes, but I don't associate "static" with low impedance power circuits, only with high impedance.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Static_electricity


No laptop is 100% secure anywhere on Earth, unless switched off and locked in a waterproof, earthquake proof, GBU-57A/B MOP proof, asteroid proof, subduction zone proof, End of the Universe proof, bank vault. Even then, the battery will eventually leak (maybe). It might also get dropped or stolen.

bleak outlook... sorry if i chose my words incorrectly, i meant to say " as safe as if i were to connect to a wall socket that uses Hydro Quebec as its power source" is that better ??? and you forgot "Godzilla proof"

PS didnt know lithium batteries could leak, alway thought it was in "putty" form

 

[Misgar]

measuring the mobo.. i get 20cm x 15cm... i dont really see a major issue..

Hopefully, the motherboard will fit, if there are suitable standoff locations, but did you consider moving all 4 hard disks into the case too? They'd be much safer inside the case out of harm's way.

if your only concern is lightning strikes

The fault currents I've been describing flow down to earth when the Line input makes contact with the computer's metalwork, if a severe fault develops in a PSU. It can take anything between 30A and 50A (possibly more) to trip a 15A breaker. Your thin bit of "earth" wire could get very hot, if the fault current persists for a long time. Nothing to do with lightning strikes, with thousands of Amps and millions of Volts.

im sorry but im rather reluctant to insert any metal object in any electrical socket.

I've no idea where you got the impression you should start poking things into electrical sockets, from my description of how a GFCI/RCB/ELCB works. See link below.
https://www.electricaltechnology.or...-fault-circuit-interrupter-types-working.html

PS didnt know lithium batteries could leak

https://holobattery.com/lithium-battery-leaks/

Perhaps we should call it a day.

 

[ragez0r]

Hopefully, the motherboard will fit, if there are suitable standoff locations, but did you consider moving all 4 hard disks into the case too? They'd be much safer inside the case out of harm's way.

mobo only has 4 sata ports available the orico 5 hdd to usb gives me the use of 5 addiional hdd ports....

The fault currents I've been describing flow down to earth when the Line input makes contact with the computer's metalwork, if a severe fault develops in a PSU. It can take anything between 30A and 50A (possibly more) to trip a 15A breaker. Your thin bit of "earth" wire could get very hot, if the fault current persists for a long time. Nothing to do with lightning strikes, with thousands of Amps and millions of Volts.

so should i add more or thicker cables from ground prong to beam ? really not an issue...

i have leftover wire that is apperantly rated for 2500 watts

I've no idea where you got the impression you should start poking things into electrical sockets, from my description of how a GFCI/RCB/ELCB works. See link below.
https://www.electricaltechnology.or...-fault-circuit-interrupter-types-working.html


https://holobattery.com/lithium-battery-leaks/

Perhaps we should call it a day.

you are the boss, but i really do enjoy your posts so thank you Misgar
and the images in your last link show battery corrosion.. when you said "leak" i pictured a fluid coming out of a swollen battery pack... the brand of my laptop is MSI, i hope they didnt go for the cheapest battery when putting together my GF65

but okay, i will leave you a message when the computer components inside the steel (or aluminium?) case...
take care