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matchboxmatt
Distinguished
- Mar 19, 2009
- 129
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- 18,680
[citation][nom]vant[/nom]More BS.They were wrong when they forced MS to include other browsers, they are wrong here to force Apple to include flash.What the EU is doing is delaying technical progress.[/citation]
Except that, you know, the whole point was to enforce competition.
Which results in technical progress.
Except that, you know, the whole point was to enforce competition.
Which results in technical progress.
descendency
Distinguished
- Jul 20, 2008
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- 18,990
I know the internet isn't all that happy with Apple, but...
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=adobe+problems&word2=suicide
There is more content on the internet about Adobe's problems than there is about suicide. It's that serious.
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=adobe+problems&word2=suicide
There is more content on the internet about Adobe's problems than there is about suicide. It's that serious.
[citation][nom]Fluffedhead[/nom]All the EU is trying to do is give consumers the choice to choose. It's called freedom! If you don't want flash then you don't have to put it on your phone. But the choose should be yours to make, not Apple's choice. I am an iPhone user I've had the last 3 iPhones, but because I enjoy Freedom, I've been forced to jailbreak my phones in order to run apps Apple has deemed unworthy, these unapproved apps are great! Without jailbreaking I would never by the iPhone. Apple acts as a dictator, telling the consumer what's best for them and not allowing anything they dissapprove of. Apple doesn't even have a good reason for not allowing certain apps like Google Voice, and other apps the don't like they make up some lame excuse. I applaud the EU for looking out for the consumer.[/citation]
Consumers have a choice. If they want Flash, buy something else. It's called free market.
How is the government mandating that competing products have the same functionality beneficial for the consumer?
Consumers have a choice. If they want Flash, buy something else. It's called free market.
How is the government mandating that competing products have the same functionality beneficial for the consumer?
[citation][nom]r_pad[/nom]I'm no fanboy for apple, but where is the justice? So will apple have to support the users that choose to install itunes but have a zune player?This isn't right![/citation]
it would be Microsoft's responsibility to support you in this instance, they would be the ones using it as a selling point. Apple would have a big disclaimer saying they only support their devices.
it would be Microsoft's responsibility to support you in this instance, they would be the ones using it as a selling point. Apple would have a big disclaimer saying they only support their devices.
I am not pro EU on this. all I feel is that at least the dumb, ravenous, feral animal that the EU anti-trust commission is, has at least been directed at a slightly more deserving target this time.
also, there is truth in their words, even if implementing it may seem infeasible. if you were to force inter-compatibility with everything, the only way companies could one up each other is to innovate, constantly, no more would they even be able to just survive off one innovation. obviously, it would also be better for consumer CHOICE as well.
you may laugh at the idea of making intel and amd use the same socket! but atleast then you wouldn't have problems like nvidia not being able to make chipsets for intel cpus(love em or hate em).
there are some who argue that "the market WILL decide if Apple force a lack of flash, the market will decide whether they need it or not"
maybe so, but I would think a much fairer test would be to have the OPTION on the iphone, then if it REALLY didn't work, customers could REALLY decide whether to use it or not.
keep in mind, its not like time would be wasted coming up with millions of standards, and inefficiencies would be added in order to make stuff as "compatible as possible" it would not be up to the leading company to make their stuff "compatible" they would just NOT be allowed to force incompatibility. that's the thing here! time is being wasted making stuff INcompatible! its stupid!
the only problem I could see is the devaluing of patents and IP, but we all know how screwed up the patent system is anyway, and besides, even then, the EU isn't saying "allow compatibility for free" they would simply force you to license it rather than not allow it. I think that is a good idea. it gets to the heart of anti-competitiveness. they still get rewarded for their R&D, but they can't sit around just beating away competition with a patent bat, they have to keep innovating. just like the x86/x64 instruction set stuff. iirc, Intel licences x86 to amd, and that has allowed them to compete and develop x64, who they in turn now license to Intel. now I don't know whether that is right or not, but that's the way it SHOULD work.
still, it would take a measure of common sense to implement properly, you have to draw a line somewhere, there has to be limits, I'm not confident the EU can do this... all I know is there IS a big problem with incompatibility in the tech industry, that serves only to hurt you and me.
also, there is truth in their words, even if implementing it may seem infeasible. if you were to force inter-compatibility with everything, the only way companies could one up each other is to innovate, constantly, no more would they even be able to just survive off one innovation. obviously, it would also be better for consumer CHOICE as well.
you may laugh at the idea of making intel and amd use the same socket! but atleast then you wouldn't have problems like nvidia not being able to make chipsets for intel cpus(love em or hate em).
there are some who argue that "the market WILL decide if Apple force a lack of flash, the market will decide whether they need it or not"
maybe so, but I would think a much fairer test would be to have the OPTION on the iphone, then if it REALLY didn't work, customers could REALLY decide whether to use it or not.
keep in mind, its not like time would be wasted coming up with millions of standards, and inefficiencies would be added in order to make stuff as "compatible as possible" it would not be up to the leading company to make their stuff "compatible" they would just NOT be allowed to force incompatibility. that's the thing here! time is being wasted making stuff INcompatible! its stupid!
the only problem I could see is the devaluing of patents and IP, but we all know how screwed up the patent system is anyway, and besides, even then, the EU isn't saying "allow compatibility for free" they would simply force you to license it rather than not allow it. I think that is a good idea. it gets to the heart of anti-competitiveness. they still get rewarded for their R&D, but they can't sit around just beating away competition with a patent bat, they have to keep innovating. just like the x86/x64 instruction set stuff. iirc, Intel licences x86 to amd, and that has allowed them to compete and develop x64, who they in turn now license to Intel. now I don't know whether that is right or not, but that's the way it SHOULD work.
still, it would take a measure of common sense to implement properly, you have to draw a line somewhere, there has to be limits, I'm not confident the EU can do this... all I know is there IS a big problem with incompatibility in the tech industry, that serves only to hurt you and me.
[citation][nom]matt87_50[/nom]it would be Microsoft's responsibility to support you in this instance, they would be the ones using it as a selling point. Apple would have a big disclaimer saying they only support their devices.[/citation]
[citation][nom]deathknight01[/nom]What authority does the EU have over an American company? [/citation]
They can stop Apple to resell their products on the EU market. and make Apple paying for the trouble produce by their products. (Like they allready does for other companis like Intel, Microsoft...)
Nobody is above the law, especially American companies in the EU market!!!
I can say "Who is Apple a simple company compared to the EU government?"
[citation][nom]deathknight01[/nom]What authority does the EU have over an American company? [/citation]
They can stop Apple to resell their products on the EU market. and make Apple paying for the trouble produce by their products. (Like they allready does for other companis like Intel, Microsoft...)
Nobody is above the law, especially American companies in the EU market!!!
I can say "Who is Apple a simple company compared to the EU government?"
eddieroolz
Splendid
- Sep 6, 2008
- 7,057
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I don't know. I was hoping that it wouldn't take EU to force Apple into submission, but I suppose no one/nothing else can force Apple to change.
descendency
yeah so i plonked in apple and guess what the results were, looks like apple has more trouble then adobe
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=apple+problems&word2=adobe+problems
yeah so i plonked in apple and guess what the results were, looks like apple has more trouble then adobe
http://www.googlefight.com/index.php?lang=en_GB&word1=apple+problems&word2=adobe+problems
For all of you out there thinking ,"Oh, boy!!! The EU is gonna sock it to Apple!!!" Do you KNOW what you are asking for? You are asking for a government to tell a company for what purpose the company will sell it's products. So can I have the EU force the maker of my Blu-Ray player to support RCA Select-A-Vision discs? If you......YOU.. Choose to buy an Apple mobile product, you KNOW BEFORE you buy that it does not support flash. If you must have flash, DON'T BUY APPLE!! Is that too hard for you socialist minded jerks to comprehend? ITUNES has a single purpose. That is to sync media with APPLE devices. So can the EU force SONY into making their reader software work with the iPad? If you do not have an Apple device, why would you want iTunes. Oh! Is it about the selection of media available on iTunes? Did the EU build that library or did Apple? I bet you babies wanting the EU to force companies to do things contrary to their own interests are the the same people that riot in the street when you find out your welfare checks are being cut. I have an idea. Stop being a parasite. Make a choice to buy an Apple product or not. Live with the consequences of the choice. Yes, you can encourage apple to change it's mind...but there is a correct way to do that.
damiano13mg
Distinguished
- Jun 6, 2010
- 59
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- 18,630
Well, until HTML5 is ubiquitous, all Flash should be supported so all people can view webpages appropriately and get on with life.
time2think
Distinguished
- Apr 16, 2008
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Forcing a company to adopt another companies standards is like modifying a new cars engine yet expecting it to be covered by it's warranty. Public perception of said results would influence the markets concept of it's reliabilities.
I'm not an Apple fan
and I'd like Flash to work on iPhone and iPad but you can't force Apple to do such thing
and forcing them to make iTunes to work with other device? that is just wrong
why don't they force Music Lable company to give out free music just like this case iTunes and iPad are Apple's Patented Product.
I means it's cool if Apple voluntarily makes all that happened but forcing someone to do something is not right
and I'd like Flash to work on iPhone and iPad but you can't force Apple to do such thing
and forcing them to make iTunes to work with other device? that is just wrong
why don't they force Music Lable company to give out free music just like this case iTunes and iPad are Apple's Patented Product.
I means it's cool if Apple voluntarily makes all that happened but forcing someone to do something is not right
[citation][nom]willgart[/nom]If I follow you, we have to remove the iPhone 4 from the market because its a bugged device? we have to stop using all the software in the world because they are bugged?and where is the problem if flash crash under iOS and not under Windows? maybe Apple make something wrong and they are aware about this weakness which is demonstrated by Flash...So let the user selecting the product they want in their devices, who are Apple to choose what I need? are you god?[/citation]
I understand that there is NO perfect system or product... thats a given. That being said, if you made a product and I wanted my product to be used on your product but my product made your product slow, unreliable, unstable, less secure than it already is, and sucks the lift out of your battery, then as the creator of that product its my responsibility to make it better. When the Ford Explorer had that issue with Bridgestone tires making their top SUV unsafe, Ford had every right to stop using that company and use another. I applaud Apple for having the guts to say.... hey Adobe, your software makes my product perform lower than what I made it so when you improve it we can talk. Maybe your PC might run better if the software on it was better written. Microsoft spend a lot of money and had lots of conferences encouraging... damn near demanding... that software developers make better written products. The majority of the issues I come across on Internet Explorer has nothing to do with the browser but some add on or plugin that crashes the browser. Its not for Microsoft to make Internet Explorer work with the plugin... its the plugins job to work with internet explorer. No one said it has to be perfect... but it has to work and work well enough that it doesnt cloud the image of the platform its running on. The iPhone isnt perfect.... ATT makes it look even worse and thats why its coming to Verizon soon.
I understand that there is NO perfect system or product... thats a given. That being said, if you made a product and I wanted my product to be used on your product but my product made your product slow, unreliable, unstable, less secure than it already is, and sucks the lift out of your battery, then as the creator of that product its my responsibility to make it better. When the Ford Explorer had that issue with Bridgestone tires making their top SUV unsafe, Ford had every right to stop using that company and use another. I applaud Apple for having the guts to say.... hey Adobe, your software makes my product perform lower than what I made it so when you improve it we can talk. Maybe your PC might run better if the software on it was better written. Microsoft spend a lot of money and had lots of conferences encouraging... damn near demanding... that software developers make better written products. The majority of the issues I come across on Internet Explorer has nothing to do with the browser but some add on or plugin that crashes the browser. Its not for Microsoft to make Internet Explorer work with the plugin... its the plugins job to work with internet explorer. No one said it has to be perfect... but it has to work and work well enough that it doesnt cloud the image of the platform its running on. The iPhone isnt perfect.... ATT makes it look even worse and thats why its coming to Verizon soon.
[citation][nom]icepick314[/nom]if EU forced MS to take out IE and allowed options for other browsers to be installed, then I don't see why they can't force Apple to make iTunes play nice with other music player and put flash on iPhone/iPad/iPod[/citation]
I dont think its the same. Microsoft forced PC manufacturers to install only internet explorer on Windows systems... thats not promoting competition. Jobs has been waving HTML5 like Apple made it but they didnt.... its a standard... anyone can use it. If HTML5 works better than Flash... is less issue prone than Flash then I am all for it. Even Balmer is in support of HTML5... even if it axes Silverlight.
I dont think its the same. Microsoft forced PC manufacturers to install only internet explorer on Windows systems... thats not promoting competition. Jobs has been waving HTML5 like Apple made it but they didnt.... its a standard... anyone can use it. If HTML5 works better than Flash... is less issue prone than Flash then I am all for it. Even Balmer is in support of HTML5... even if it axes Silverlight.
[citation][nom]matt87_50[/nom]*cough* iphone 4 antenna *cough*its not about flash being a sub par product. I'll say it slowly so people can understand, JUST BECAUSE STEVE SAYS IT, DOESN'T MAKE IT SO.
Well as a consumer you have the ability to NOT buy a faulty product as Apple has to deny faulty software. The antenna issue with the iPhone 4 will be dealt with... Apple has a track record of fixing THEIR mistakes. They only ask that others do the same. Steve Jobs doesnt have some kind of Jedi mind control over people... if he does then that person is weak and is liable to believe anything. What he says makes sense and I dont even own an Apple... just an old iPod Video that still works.
Well as a consumer you have the ability to NOT buy a faulty product as Apple has to deny faulty software. The antenna issue with the iPhone 4 will be dealt with... Apple has a track record of fixing THEIR mistakes. They only ask that others do the same. Steve Jobs doesnt have some kind of Jedi mind control over people... if he does then that person is weak and is liable to believe anything. What he says makes sense and I dont even own an Apple... just an old iPod Video that still works.
[citation][nom]deathknight01[/nom]What authority does the EU have over an American company? This just doesn't make any sense. Sure I hate Apple for not supporting flash and having it on their portable devices but it's their choice, if they choose to lose customers for not having support for flash then that's their choice right?[/citation]
Well in the not so distant past there were sites that only worked on Internet Explorer because Microsoft had their own set of standards that differ from the rest of the world. That changed as other browsers became more popular because people were tired of mediocre Internet Explorer and so will your dependence on Flash. As more sites rebuild to work on HTML5 (a standard) that argument will become less and less relevant.
Well in the not so distant past there were sites that only worked on Internet Explorer because Microsoft had their own set of standards that differ from the rest of the world. That changed as other browsers became more popular because people were tired of mediocre Internet Explorer and so will your dependence on Flash. As more sites rebuild to work on HTML5 (a standard) that argument will become less and less relevant.
- Jul 16, 2009
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Well, as much as I hate the EU this is only fair.
They forced Microsoft to have the stupid browser screen, so this is equally stupid.
But no more than I would have expected.
Lots of people who shouted at the EU for what they did to MS said if they did that to MS they should do the same the Apple so I suppose this is payback.
Expect the EU to go after Google next.
They forced Microsoft to have the stupid browser screen, so this is equally stupid.
But no more than I would have expected.
Lots of people who shouted at the EU for what they did to MS said if they did that to MS they should do the same the Apple so I suppose this is payback.
Expect the EU to go after Google next.
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