News EVGA Abandons the GPU Market, Reportedly Citing Conflicts With Nvidia

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atomicWAR

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Probably because their cards are the worst ones and if (when) people have a choice they will buy from other companies.
Yeah but how much of that was out of design to piss off AIBs less. I would not be surprised if in the next 5 to 10 years Nvidia does cut out AIBs completely. I hope not but time will tell and Ngreedia hasn't been inspiring much faith as if late.
 
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Amdlova

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Rip, I got one 1650 from pyn, I can't trust evga anymore but for nvidia will be a big hit. Next generation of graphics will be to expensive smart move from evga, sell power supplys and blame the nvidia for high wattage, extremely heat and poor design. Smart move.
 
It was probably something like, here take all these 30 series GPUs (which you have to sell at a loss) in order to get 40 series GPUs and we won't tell you the pricing for 40 series in advance, take it or leave it.
A while back they stated they would start making AMD cards, maybe that didn't go over well with their current contract when it came to renewal.

Still I find this to be devastating. Like watching wayne gretzky or micheal jordan retire.

I feel like this is only temporary.
 

Phaaze88

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Ambassador
~80% of their revenue comes from gpu sales. Sounds very impressive, until I heard the part about barely breaking even from it all, and profits from power supply sales are far higher... that's wild.
Some of those power supply sales have to be from bundles/combos, so if gpu sales halt, there will be fewer psu sales.

They're losing money from RTX 3080 and up, but making it from 3070Ti and down. Isn't that backwards behavior?


we need more players in the gpu space.
Comments across this site's older ARC news articles, TPU and EVGA forums [and reddit - bleh!]... have given the impression that it isn't enough to have more players.

Even if 1st gen ARC drivers weren't a crapfest... [Their fault for trying to do too much with it.]

Even if AMD's past driver stigma suddenly disappeared, driver updates were more frequent, RT and AI scaling development improved, etc...
[They are working with a fraction of the budgets that Nvidia and Intel have - what are some people bloody expecting them to do??? It's great what AMD is managing to achieve with Ryzen and RDNA, but ~no...]

Many folks won't budge at all with a break in the duopoly; Nvidia would still have a significant lead over the other 2 competitors. The green mindshare is too strong, and I can do naught but read/watch and shake my head...
 
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Even with ALL of the AIB partners trying to satisfy demand they have struggled greatly to do so for the last couple of generations. Taking away one of those partners that was supplying 40% of those cards means you can not only expect there to be an instant lack of supply, meaning nothing is going to be any better than it was last time around and will probably be significantly WORSE in terms of being able to get a 4000 series card, but as always, when supply is low and demand is high, you can expect there to once again be a major increase in the cost and for scalpers to rush in and make things 10x worse.
I can agree on that point of view. But I have one query.

If we see this from other perspective, could it also be possible that NVIDIA may also attempt to bring in new partners to the North American market to fill EVGA's void, such as GALAX (Galaxy), or Colorful, which are both major graphics card OEMs in the Chinese market ?

It will now fall on them to match the design and quality standards EVGA established. I speculate EVGA's exit will have minimal impact on NVIDIA's bottom-line, as those in the market for a GeForce graphics card will ultimately buy one from whichever brand, regardless.

On some other note/thoughts, if one were to speculate once again, the company could increase its presence in the prebuilt notebook and gaming peripherals businesses, and probably even ride the growth-cycle in the power-supply market with ATX 3.0 and PCIe Gen 5. Since Graphics cards made up over three-quarters of EVGA's revenue.

Next-generation high-end graphics cards are expected to trigger upgrades among those with PSUs 4 years or older, as older PSUs, particularly mainstream ones, will find it hard to deal with the power excursions (spikes) of high-end PCIe Gen 5 graphics cards. The company could also retain its PCB engineering team to further develop its motherboard business. But all these are just speculation.

Unless EVGA significantly invests in its other businesses, it's done. Game over.
 

SunMaster

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Nah, the Jay video says EVGA has no intention of coming back to GPUs.

If EVGA makes GPUs again, it will probably be as a contract manufacturer: get paid up-front to put boards together for AMD/Nvidia/Intel, then let AMD/Nvidia/Intel worry about making a retail profit from them instead of risk getting screwed between the GPU chip kit's cost and crashing retail prices again.
The actual source is Games Nexus, who did an actual interview with EVGAs. In their video Steve Burke says they have no current plan (if I remember correctly) , not that there won't ever be one in the future.
 
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DRagor

Illustrious
EVGA will be fine. It was not a sudden change of heart - Steve mentions that NVidia high-ups knew about that since April, so I could bet EVGA was preparing for this move for at least a year.
 

InvalidError

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The actual source is Games Nexus, who did an actual interview with EVGAs. In their video Steve Burke says they have no current plan (if I remember correctly) , not that there won't ever be one in the future.
Just because EVGA has no plan of manufacturing GPUs under its own brand doesn't mean they won't lend their manufacturing capacity to someone else. All of the PCB assembly lines used for GPUs need to get re-purposed for something else and since EVGA has no intention of branching out into new product lines, I doubt it makes anywhere near enough of their other stuff to keep their GPU PCB lines busy.

EVGA bailed out because it got tired of getting squeezed between Nvidia's shenanigans and the retail space. As a board assembler, it would be paid up-front for putting boards together and not have to worry about what happens at retail. Much less room to get screwed over.
 
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Jay's video basically says Nvidia is undercutting the AIBs with its FE cards and EVGA cannot break even attempting to compete with those, so it makes no sense to make any more at the prices Nvidia is charging for their GPU kits.


What is corporate suicide is staying in the GPU business selling GPUs at a loss.
Yup, according to the Gamers Nexus video, EVGA makes 80% of its revenue from GPUs and 20% from other products (like PSUs). Yet the margins on the other products is 3 times higher than the GPU revenue. So multiply the numbers together. If we assume that margins on the GPUs in a good year are 10%, you get a value of 800. If other product margins are then 30%, you get a value of 600. So the gross profit from GPUs is under 60%.

Yet probably 80% of the labor cost (in relation to the revenue breakdown) comes from GPUs. So why not expand your investment in other products? (This is all rough sloppy math but the point still stands).

And as soon as the margins for GPUs drop below 0%, now you are losing money on a massive segment of your business.
 
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I think that eVGA will partner with AMD in the long term.

While the eVGA CEO currently doesn't want to do GPU's, I think the long term will be quite different.

There is a HUGE opportunity for AMD to get a HUGE win with eVGA joining the AMD side.

I doubt Intel has anything to offer eVGA with it's flailing ARC series of cards that can't get drivers working.
That is very optimistic thinking. AMD already has a premium AIB in Sapphire, along with plenty of others. It doesn't need EVGA and EVGA entering a crowded market will not help profits. It will also sour relations between AMD and its existing AIBs.

It sounds more like EVGA would rather compete with Corsair and other sellers of PSUs.
 
I read in here a lot of people having a HORRIBLE confusion about AMD's "reference design board" and nVidia's "FE" cards: nVidia FE cards ARE NOT reference boards and they ARE NOT* made by any of the board partners, nor can be made by any of them. AMD reference cards are exactly that: the minimum you can expect from the design and they allow partners to make them like for like (as base reference designs should).

This is a HUGE difference in how nVidia positions their FE cards vs AMD reference boards in the eyes of the partners. This is also more evidence of nVidia just not giving two rats about their partners as they're directly competing with them using specialty hardware their partners have no access to. You have to ask yourselves that, at some point, being a partner of nVidia is basically a losing game in the long run and I'm baffled EVGA took this long to bail out on them. Keep in mind XFX did so a long time ago.

References:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/how-nvidia-amd-graphics-card-are-made

EDIT: The WAN show, via Linus, actually has a great way of explaining all this kerfuffle. I suggest investing your time in the first 3rd of the video where they talk in great length about it:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QADCRdzqOH0


Regards.
 
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renz496

Champion
I think that eVGA will partner with AMD in the long term.

While the eVGA CEO currently doesn't want to do GPU's, I think the long term will be quite different.

There is a HUGE opportunity for AMD to get a HUGE win with eVGA joining the AMD side.

I doubt Intel has anything to offer eVGA with it's flailing ARC series of cards that can't get drivers working.
The biggest hurdle to this will be AMD existing partners. At best EVGA will be another XFX. Also to maintain the service and quality they have been providing they need money. XFX can't keep the same reputation they once had when they still selling nvidia gpu after they go with AMD only. In fact in 2012 they almost go under because AMD already sell a lot less gpu than nvidia and they have to compete with several existing AMD partner as well. For most partners that sell nvidia gpu they rather go with nvidia scheme rather than completely losing the ability to sell nvidia gpu.
 

renz496

Champion
I read in here a lot of people having a HORRIBLE confusion about AMD's "reference design board" and nVidia's "FE" cards: nVidia FE cards ARE NOT reference boards and they ARE NOT* made by any of the board partners, nor can be made by any of them. AMD reference cards are exactly that: the minimum you can expect from the design and they allow partners to make them like for like (as base reference designs should).

This is a HUGE difference in how nVidia positions their FE cards vs AMD reference boards in the eyes of the partners. This is also more evidence of nVidia just not giving two rats about their partners as they're directly competing with them using specialty hardware their partners have no access to. You have to ask yourselves that, at some point, being a partner of nVidia is basically a losing game in the long run and I'm baffled EVGA took this long to bail out on them. Keep in mind XFX did so a long time ago.

References:
https://www.pcgamesn.com/how-nvidia-amd-graphics-card-are-made

EDIT: The WAN show, via Linus, actually has a great way of explaining all this kerfuffle. I suggest investing your time in the first 3rd of the video where they talk in great length about it:
View: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QADCRdzqOH0


Regards.
The situation with XFX are not the same as EVGA. The reason XFX decided to ditch nvidia is completely different than EVGA. if anything they probably regret their initial decision because at one point the company almost go under because of that. And after being AMD exclusive partner they did not end up being one of AMD top partner either like they did when they still sell nvidia only.
 

atomicWAR

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Ambassador
Comments across this site's older ARC news articles, TPU and EVGA forums [and reddit - bleh!]... have given the impression that it isn't enough to have more players.

Even if 1st gen ARC drivers weren't a crapfest... [Their fault for trying to do too much with it.]

Even if AMD's past driver stigma suddenly disappeared, driver updates were more frequent, RT and AI scaling development improved, etc...
[They are working with a fraction of the budgets that Nvidia and Intel have - what are some people bloody expecting them to do??? It's great what AMD is managing to achieve with Ryzen and RDNA, but ~no...]

Many folks won't budge at all with a break in the duopoly; Nvidia would still have a significant lead over the other 2 competitors. The green mindshare is too strong, and I can do naught but read/watch and shake my head...
While I can't deny Nvidia's mind share, it doesn't change the fact we need another gpu player in the space. Yeah sure AMD drivers are garbage and likely not going to change soon. Sure Intel's are even worse and their track record in the graphics accelaration (i740 ack)/ GPU space is even worse.

All that can be true and my arguement still isn't wrong. Yes someone will need to get drivers and hardware up to snuff which makes the whole affair unlikely to succeed but it doesn't change the need even if noone is able to currently fill it. Sadly in that respect we are both correct.
 
Reactions: Phaaze88
The situation with XFX are not the same as EVGA. The reason XFX decided to ditch nvidia is completely different than EVGA. if anything they probably regret their initial decision because at one point the company almost go under because of that. And after being AMD exclusive partner they did not end up being one of AMD top partner either like they did when they still sell nvidia only.
The reason XFX "left" nVidia is because nVidia kicked them out for trying to build things with AMD; that's it. Linus actually touches on that topic in a very smart way: EVGA saying they don't want to "betray" nVidia by going with AMD or Intel is because THEY KNOW nVidia "does not forgive, does not forget". The only slim margin they have to return to making VGAs will be if they survive without relying on nVidia's "enemies". If this is not "mafia" tactics, I don't know what is? Some people call it "just business", but come on...

EDIT: This was the start of it, as Linus mentions in his WAN show:
https://www.techpowerup.com/118821/xfx-abandons-geforce-gtx-400-series

Regards.
 
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renz496

Champion
You just wonder all the nvidia fans who were also EVGA fans, if that makes them consider looking at amd cards more seriously. Nvidia could lose market share over this one.
They will just going to look for another brand. When XFX still sell nvidia gpu they were regarded among nvidia best partners. When XFX end up selling AMD GPU only i does not change the situation much for nvidia. Slowly for the past 10 years nvidia keep increasing their market share to where it is now. Some people might be fan of EVGA but it doesn't mean they will stop buying nvidia gpu if that is what they want inside their pc. In the past i do like Asus GPU. but then they start charging premium price for just being Asus so i have to look for others that offer more value.
 

ikernelpro4

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Aug 4, 2018
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Did EVGA hold a gun to your head when you spent that $2K?
What? It was a voluntary exchange of money for something you wanted more than that amount of money? Hmmm... Then how was it a rip-off?
I know right, $2000 for a GPU. 2000 dollars.
Saving money is a thing, you could've even went to a vacation with a luxury hotel 5* all inclusive for weeks with that money and had a life-long experience and still have some money left for a (perhaps used but better or new but worse) old gen GPU. Old gen being 2000 series which is already going to be good for many years to come.
 

InvalidError

Titan
Moderator
Yes someone will need to get drivers and hardware up to snuff which makes the whole affair unlikely to succeed but it doesn't change the need even if noone is able to currently fill it.
The single biggest obstacle to anyone jumping into the GPU design business is the patent minefield. Anyone attempting to jump in and become a credible player is going to get brutally assaulted by just about everyone who owns potentially relevant patents in that general market segment unless they can afford to buy a company sitting on a significant graphics-related patent portfolio.
 
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While I can't deny Nvidia's mind share, it doesn't change the fact we need another gpu player in the space. Yeah sure AMD drivers are garbage and likely not going to change soon. Sure Intel's are even worse and their track record in the graphics accelaration (i740 ack)/ GPU space is even worse.

All that can be true and my arguement still isn't wrong. Yes someone will need to get drivers and hardware up to snuff which makes the whole affair unlikely to succeed but it doesn't change the need even if noone is able to currently fill it. Sadly in that respect we are both correct.
Garbage drivers as in lacking features or in having lots of bugs? I have not seen any bugs concerning Radeons in my personal use.
 
Reactions: King_V and Zerk2012
Wow....

and

I blame miners!!! lol

Nvidia's CEO is been acting like a jerk for years. I can't even stand him talking more than 10 seconds that I get sick of soo much <Mod Edit>.

I would not be surprised if EVGA was not the only one leaving nvidia's boat.

I love nivida GPUs and the usual stable/polished drivers, but I rather hear Lisa Su lying to me for 5 hours, than hearing the other guy for 10s.

Its a real pitty if this come true, I really, really like EVGA cards a lot.
 
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renz496

Champion
The reason XFX "left" nVidia is because nVidia kicked them out for trying to build things with AMD; that's it. Linus actually touches on that topic in a very smart way: EVGA saying they don't want to "betray" nVidia by going with AMD or Intel is because THEY KNOW nVidia "does not forgive, does not forget". The only slim margin they have to return to making VGAs will be if they survive without relying on nVidia's "enemies". If this is not "mafia" tactics, I don't know what is? Some people call it "just business", but come on...

EDIT: This was the start of it, as Linus mentions in his WAN show:
https://www.techpowerup.com/118821/xfx-abandons-geforce-gtx-400-series

Regards.
it was not that simple. remember XFX starts as nvidia exclusive partner. they were regarded as one of nvidia best along side EVGA. some people even regarded them to be even better than EVGA. XFX able to get where they are most likely because of the support they get from nvidia. else they will be just another nvidia partner that rarely being heard of. when they start to sell competitor hardware then of course nvidia will not going to like it. AMD probably will take give other partner more priority as well if Sapphire struck a deal to sell nvidia GPU.

funny thing is they said something like "GTX480 and GTX470 are upon us, but perhaps the time has come to Ferm up who really has the big Guns." in 2010 and yet in 2012 they almost go under because they no longer sell nvidia GPU.
 
While EVGA was in business with NVIDIA, they controlled 40% of the North American market share of AIC graphics cards.

Them quitting would definitely open up the inventory for other AICs to gobble up but it will take time for the die-hard EVGA fans to get adjusted to the new non-EVGA marketplace & as Jon Peddie predicts, It will take around 2-3 (possibly more) quarters for the North American GPU market to adjust to this huge change.
We have to assume that all other AICs are working at capacity already, especially if margins are really as bad as evga says they are, so they would have to invest a huge amount of money not only for the extra dies but also for all of the other hardware needed to put a card together plus the extra pcb manufacturing extra logistics extra workforce and so on.
With the GPU market having crashed and the next gen being high power and power prices increasing constantly it's going to be a huge gamble with extremely high risk.

It doesn't look like the best business opportunity.

Watch Intel and EVGA sign an exclusive partnership
Intel isn't ready for anything like that yet in the GPU market, they are still at the testing phase and probably will be for the next few gens.
Intel just needs to bring a small number of cards to the market each year to test out the waters, when they are ready for a good product they will switch to their own fabs and roll out at great numbers.

(yes yes, if they will keep at it and not just drop it)
 

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