Explain something

[cyph0r]

Am I missing something here?? Why would anyone buy any thing else than an opteron if you can get a AMD Opteron 165 for 325$ and over clock it to the speeds of a FX-60 (costs 1100$) and get the EXACT same performance? im just not understanding this. there shurely must be something that makes them differnt. am i missing a key idea here? what does the FX do that an opteron cant that would cause that big of a price gap? why even have the Athlon line? why not just opterons (1xx Series) if there is no difference between which does what. If they are EXACTLY the same except the Opty overclocks MUCH better. ( dont bring marketing into this, this question is for pure tech info)

 

[CompGeek]

FX are for rich people for whom 700$ extra is nothing. They do come with unlocked multipliers but due to their already top frequencies you don't get good results OCing them.
Opterons were made for servers,thus they are more reliable and solid, of better quality than X2. People became to realise what an opportunity it was to OC them to unbelievable speeds without moding or other complex methods. They were meant to run stable and cool though i doubt the AMD
guys thought of OC before shipping the product. The result was more and more people moved to Opterons and of course a sudden increase in prices.

 

[YO_KID37]

Cyph0r it basically comesdown to this. FX is a GAMING and Enthuasist RIG, SO you can only PUSH it so far For its Software Capibility. But Opty is a Server RIG, it can be pushed as fasr as that because Its going to be using its nternet connections and latency to Do its work So U CAn Trust it for its SERVER Capabilitys. and FX for its GAMING capibliltues. not Vice versa.

 

[cyph0r]

Cyph0r it basically comesdown to this. FX is a GAMING and Enthuasist RIG, SO you can only PUSH it so far For its Software Capibility. But Opty is a Server RIG, it can be pushed as fasr as that because Its going to be using its nternet connections and latency to Do its work So U CAn Trust it for its SERVER Capabilitys. and FX for its GAMING capibliltues. not Vice versa.

So your saying the logical arcitecture is different and that even tho they are clocked the same same dual core and same stats. they arnt going to perform the same?

 

[YO_KID37]

Well they Might perform the Same in some areas But OPTY wont be as reliable and as stable as FX when used for GAMING and Benching things. You Dont See Any one Buying Xenon processers for Running Halfelife2 do u? even though you can do it but it would be a waste of a Server Processer.

 

[TabrisDarkPeace]

I'd like to see 10 of these Opteron 165's running at 2.7 GHz with the stock (although far better than Athlon 64, but perhaps same as FX-60) heatsink, with the heat pipes.

Until then, don't believe the Opteron 165 can overclock to 2.7 GHz every single time without stability issues.

The first batch of Opteron 165, Socket 939 (yeah, they are really Opterons on Socket 939 😛), might have been good, but the next ones may only overclock to 2.3 or 2.5 GHz.

If you can't afford the risk, do not take it, and just get a 2.6 GHz dual-core CPU from the get go.

Also the FX series is not multiplier locked in either direction, so far easier to overclock a shade more, and try for 3.0 GHz with more advanced cooling.

 

[joefriday]

I bet ten out of ten opterons will hit 2.5 GHz, which would be within 10% of the performance of an fx60. Those opterons that do clock higher will be an even better buy. Face it, AMD shot themselves in the foot when they released the dual core opteron for the 939 platform.

 

[YO_KID37]

I bet ten out of ten opterons will hit 2.5 GHz, which would be within 10% of the performance of an fx60. Those opterons that do clock higher will be an even better buy. Face it, AMD shot themselves in the foot when they released the dual core opteron for the 939 platform.

Joefriday what u don't understand is that Eventhough ur looknig underthe hood and its Motor. You have'nt looked at its Shell. Its a GAMEING CPU and OPTY is a SERVER CPU. Different MOBO's too. Thats like Comparing a Dodge VIPER and a DODGE RAM clocked at the same Horse power. They might have same SPECKS and Engline But their a Totally Different Machine Ment for Different things AMD is obviously smarter than a Couple of Turds like Us who just RANT about their Processers.

 

[cyph0r]

I bet ten out of ten opterons will hit 2.5 GHz, which would be within 10% of the performance of an fx60. Those opterons that do clock higher will be an even better buy. Face it, AMD shot themselves in the foot when they released the dual core opteron for the 939 platform.

Joefriday what u don't understand is that Eventhough ur looknig underthe hood and its Motor. You have'nt looked at its Shell. Its a GAMEING CPU and OPTY is a SERVER CPU. Different MOBO's too. Thats like Comparing a Dodge VIPER and a DODGE RAM clocked at the same Horse power. They might have same SPECKS and Engline But their a Totally Different Machine Ment for Different things AMD is obviously smarter than a Couple of Turds like Us who just RANT about their Processers.

no they both run on 939 boards both procs will run on the same board

 

[YO_KID37]

Ok, but still Ones ment to Be Loaded For Serious Use"FX" and the Opty is ment for Server type of things. Thats Why the Speeds are same and Prices are Different. Otherwise i have the money to Buy that
Opty

 

[cyph0r]

Ok, but still Ones ment to Be Loaded For Serious Use"FX" and the Opty is ment for Server type of things. Thats Why the Speeds are same and Prices are Different. Otherwise i have the money to Buy that
Opty

but from what i can deduct the only thing that makes them differnt is that the OPTY 2xx series is multi proc and that the 1xx is just the opty name with the same Arcitecture

 

[mumbles]

I think what cyphor is saying is that he knows what they are "meant" for, but they are still closely related so he sees no difference.. maybe whats the REAL difference between the two, not just clock speeds and what not.

 

[Heyyou27]

Joefriday what u don't understand is that Eventhough ur looknig underthe hood and its Motor. You have'nt looked at its Shell. Its a GAMEING CPU and OPTY is a SERVER CPU. Different MOBO's too. Thats like Comparing a Dodge VIPER and a DODGE RAM clocked at the same Horse power. They might have same SPECKS and Engline But their a Totally Different Machine Ment for Different things AMD is obviously smarter than a Couple of Turds like Us who just RANT about their Processers.

Your ignorance is amazing; there is no real difference between an Athlon and an Opteron.
You rant about Opterons not being stable; last time I checked, servers are meant to be run 24/7.

 

[CallumN]

Optys have 1Mb L2 Cache per core.

There are also rumours that the optys are picked to be more stable, and the rest are set as x2's, or that the optys use a better quality silicon (highly doubt it).

 

[parlee]

congratz ur sig and avatar are dumb...

 

[CallumN]

congratz ur sig and avatar are dumb...

What?

 

[parlee]

please look who it was in reply to before asking questions, it was in reply to YO KID or whatever, last night he was talking about how he babbled to get 100 posts so he could use his avatar and sig, then bragging how there cool... and uhh, they speak for themselves.

 

[CallumN]

Ah yes, sorry, i do appoligise.

Back to the point, what i would do, and i will be with this month and next month's pay packets is the opty route. Whether its a 165 or 170 (for a 1:1 ratio) i havent decided yet, and yes, it will be clocked like a bitch.

 

[abeck_23]

Well they Might perform the Same in some areas But OPTY wont be as reliable and as stable as FX when used for GAMING and Benching things. You Dont See Any one Buying Xenon processers for Running Halfelife2 do u? even though you can do it but it would be a waste of a Server Processer.

Yah but you do see ppl buying Opteron 165 for gaming, because its the best out there for the price.

 

[parlee]

last i checked intel server cpus were outragiously priced. optys r as cheap as x2's xeons r like what 500 for a half decent one and 1200 for a decent single core with ht? i duno if those r accurate but its prob close. u cant compare xeon to p4 becuause there totally different. optys and x2 use the same core and are very similar

 

[TurtleIsland]

This is something I've successfully been doing for a living for the better part of 25 yrs. So I can say this with some authority. To put it in simple terms.
Although the CPU's you are trying to compare heve the same Toledo Core (and this applys to all cores and manufactures) The Opteron DOES NOT compare dirrectly to the Athlon 64, FX or X2 CPU's. The one thing that everyone seems to be missing here is the Instruction Set of the CPU's. Server based processors carry a different set of resident instructions then all destop processors. They are not designed for resident handling of many of the processes utililized in gaming. Yes, they will run most games quite well. However, the bulk of it's 'horsepower' sits idol while it parcels out opperations to the rest of the system in a game enviromrnt. While in the same enviroment, the desktop CPU's such as the FX handle this operations themselves. As for the price, Opterons are price pointed much different due to it's intended market. It's one thing for a private gamer to drop $700 - $1200 on a single CPU, but not many company's (those actually utilizing server processors) to replace tens if not hundreds of CPU's at the same price. Most small to mid-sized companies (large companies generally don't use X86 based servers) can't or won't commit $100,000 for cpu's. And chip makers realize this.

 

[YO_KID37]

Man you're a fanboy who have got no phuking clue about the products which you're a fan of. *shakes head*

😛 I Do admit that i have no real idea on the differences between Opteron and FX series Architectures But Don't blame me Completely. I let loose my Slightly less Intelligent Computer dork friend on this Post. But i Do Admit the Last one was mine LOL. My Noobyness was on this the last one. The first ones was my friend yo. Srry yall. no prob you can still all bash me for AMD Noobyness "Good press or bad press its all Press atleast" i say!"

Ok, but still Ones ment to Be Loaded For Serious Use"FX" and the Opty is ment for Server type of things. Thats Why the Speeds are same and Prices are Different. Otherwise i have the money to Buy that
Opty

 

[KBM]

This is something I've successfully been doing for a living for the better part of 25 yrs. So I can say this with some authority. To put it in simple terms.
Although the CPU's you are trying to compare heve the same Toledo Core (and this applys to all cores and manufactures) The Opteron DOES NOT compare dirrectly to the Athlon 64, FX or X2 CPU's. The one thing that everyone seems to be missing here is the Instruction Set of the CPU's. Server based processors carry a different set of resident instructions then all destop processors. They are not designed for resident handling of many of the processes utililized in gaming. Yes, they will run most games quite well. However, the bulk of it's 'horsepower' sits idol while it parcels out opperations to the rest of the system in a game enviromrnt. While in the same enviroment, the desktop CPU's such as the FX handle this operations themselves. As for the price, Opterons are price pointed much different due to it's intended market. It's one thing for a private gamer to drop $700 - $1200 on a single CPU, but not many company's (those actually utilizing server processors) to replace tens if not hundreds of CPU's at the same price. Most small to mid-sized companies (large companies generally don't use X86 based servers) can't or won't commit $100,000 for cpu's. And chip makers realize this.

I don't think so..
It's all the same basic core with very few tweaks for cache and MP interface.
No one would design different cores for different segments..

 

[TabrisDarkPeace]

You're right.

The processors are not specially screened, or anything.

Of course, all the ones with 512 KB L2 cache will become Athlon 64's, as there are no 512 KB L2 cache Optereon models.

Some with 1 MB L2 cache become Athlon 64, some Opteron, some Athlon 64 FX.

The dual-core ones of the same die would become Opteron 165 - 180, or 865-880, or Athlon 64 FX-60's

However not every chip can hit even 2.4 GHz, Most of them will do 2.2 GHz regardless, some do 2.6+ GHz, and they become the higher end parts depending on market demand only.

Putting the Opteron 'badge' on a few Socket 939 chips (as 'real' Opterons, even the 100 series ones, are Socket 940, and have coherent HyperTransport links to other CPUs) was the best thing AMD ever did. All the Fanboys have more 'choice' and can rave about their 'Opterons' (Albeit 100 series, single CPU socket, Socket 939, usually without ECC RAM. Registered RAM isn't really an option on Socket 939 boards, but Unbuffered ECC is).

Opteron 100 series (Socket 939) were meant for 'blade' style servers, using Unbuffered (vs more expensive Registered) ECC DDR-SDRAM. The downside is they can't be upgraded with huge capacity Registered DIMMs. These servers are not in need of a high clocked processor, and certainly are not overclocked at all. They'd be passively cooled if possible.

It is simply staggering how many AMD fanboys do not even read or visit the AMD website: http://www.amd.com ; and read the documentation.

Also have a good long hard look at: http://multicore.amd.com ; aswell.

No special instruction set differences are present at all.


RIGHT HERE, Explains how the Socket 939 Opteron 100 series, differs from the Socket 940 Opteron 100 series:

http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/ProductInformation/0,,30_118_8796_8806~85257,00.html#85258

 

[YO_KID37]

I bet ten out of ten opterons will hit 2.5 GHz, which would be within 10% of the performance of an fx60. Those opterons that do clock higher will be an even better buy. Face it, AMD shot themselves in the foot when they released the dual core opteron for the 939 platform.

Joefriday what u don't understand is that Eventhough ur looknig underthe hood and its Motor. You have'nt looked at its Shell. Its a GAMEING CPU and OPTY is a SERVER CPU. Different MOBO's too. Thats like Comparing a Dodge VIPER and a DODGE RAM clocked at the same Horse power. They might have same SPECKS and Engline But their a Totally Different Machine Ment for Different things AMD is obviously smarter than a Couple of Turds like Us who just RANT about their Processers.

no they both run on 939 boards both procs will run on the same board


I knew i was'nt that wrong Dual-Core AMD Opteron™ processors can be inserted into existing 940-pin sockets that support 90nm products. AMD Athlon™ 64 X2 Dual-Core processors and FX Series can be inserted into existing 939-pin sockets. So you do need Different Motherboards for each type of Processor.

EDIT: Ok, so WHen it comes to Socket 939-Pin Single Processor Opterons. FX-60 can Pair up in Speed and thingy Wise. Alright then I'll wait for AM2 to come out and let Conroe come Out and i'll see the prices drop and whichever is better bang for the buck. I'll go out and get that. And i'm going to Stick to Dual Core. Just need to know for sure if i need 64-bit CPU or not.