Exploring Below Ambient Water Cooling

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Fabricated Reservoir

Started with a 4" piece of PVC Drain pipe cut to 13" to allow for a pre-calculated internal volume of just over 1/2 gallon or 2 litres.
13x4PVCPipe.png


I needed a mounting bracket so I used a PVC commode 4" test flange with a knockout, I chose this because once the knockout was removed it allowed the flange to go further down the 4" pipe, allowing it to stick out the top as I needed.

ComodeTestFlange.png


Used a 4" PVC Cap to seal off the bottom of the tube.

4Cap.png


I used my mitre box to cut a flat on the side of the cap to make drilling, tapping, and mounting the the barbed fitting much easier.

Flatcutintomountdrain.png


Used PVC cement to assemble the reservoir.

FullViewUpsideDown.png


Inside view.

Insideview.png


Installed barbed outlet fitting view.

BarbedFittingInstalled.png


View of holes drilled for the 5/8 OD Return Line and the Temperature Sensing Probe.

Flangemounted.png


Water Testing for Leaks

Watertest.png


Fully assembled with 4" test cap in the open end which becomes the top when mounted.

TestCapisTop.png
 
EndCapinPlace.png


Mounted in case.

ConnectionsMade.png


All lines connected

MountingPosition.png


Insulated and in operation, the aluminum shielding is to protect from the 2nd TEC heat exhaust affecting the insulated reservoir.

Insulated.png


The PVC pipe itself to a certain extent has it's own insulating properties, I used schedule 40 4" sewer pipe which has a solid 1/4" outer wall and an exact 4" inside diameter, which made internal volume calculation quite easy.

Though the pipe was cut to 13" the seated top cap takes 1", the water level is below the return line which occupies 3" total above the water level, and measures to 10" of water volume depth, which is .544 gallon or 2 litres.

All the past reservoir/coolers having massive air space above the water level to contend with, this solution only has 2" of air space above the water level, so air space effects will not be a factor at all with this reservoir.

Posting this with 1 TEC running actual water temperature in the reservoir is 14.6c, that's 10.9c below my ambient room temperature, CPU is at 18c.

Started up this morning at 9:30A with both TECs engaged the water temperature was 21c, at 10:00A the water temperature was 11.5c, a 9.5c drop in water temperature volume in 30 minutes.

Shutoff the 2nd TEC at 10:15A as the water temperature was 9.5c and that was 15.5c below ambient.

Will test further and let you guys know how the new reservoir is working out under gaming load.
 


No Ry, Dasser was responding to a goldfarming spampost who has since been removed by the looks of it 🙂
Moto
 


Well if that's the case Thanks for the info Moto, I'll edit my Dasser response out!

No Offense Dasser! Ryan
 


Just to let you know, I did not ignore your office picture request, but presently my office is storage for the paint to finish my screened porch, and numerous other things compiling into a freaking nightmare mess!

With temperatures outside I have no choice but to store the paint inside, because it absolutely cannot be allowed to freeze.

This is the worst mess my office has ever been in, even worse than after the cooling fan roundup and until I get it cleaned up, there will be no pictures that could get me entered into the hoarding hall of fame! :lol:
 
I am happy to announce that this new reservoir held a constant steady 13c gaming load with both TECs energized playing FarCry 3, temperature started dropping as it normally does immediately after the game was shut down.

Being able to have a constant stable and steady gaming temperature is great IMO since as of yet I have not adjusted any fan speed settings, to manipulate control of the water temperature itself.

One TEC running will maintain a 15c with surfing the net and such as that, this TEC cooling is just getting better and better!
 


Just doing my job. :sol:

Nice pics Ryan and some great results. Good going!
 
Just throwing in my kudos. I've successfully read all 13 pages now... what a read. I was looking to get into sub-ambient, but everything seemed to point to sub-0... like you... not where I want to go.

One thing I've found hilarious (and curious) the whole way is that every other website/forum says what you're doing isn't possible. They all refer to this type of setup as "TEC-Chillers" (as opposed to TEC Direct Die, where the TEC sits on the CPU). All of them swear that it takes 4 TEC's, running tons of radiators to cool the Hot side. Meanwhile, Ryan's slapped on an old air cooler he had lying around :lol:

I do have some questions about what's going on in your setup, and some... theoretical observations.

Firstly, are you measuring the temperatures of the actual TEC's (both hot and cold sides) somehow? If so, I'd like to know what temps they're at.

Secondly... and I don't think I saw this anywhere in this forum... but I know I read it at http://tecpeltier.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19, that PWM is the "recommended" way to adjust power to the TEC to tame it down. Oddly enough, TEC's are most power efficient at 50% power load. Of course, they don't cool as well at that load, but increasing the power to 100% seems to have diminishing returns... making me wonder if two TEC's at 50% load wouldn't give you closer to what you're looking for in terms of cooling, so you don't have to switch one on and off. I'm sure you'd find a balanced current that would cool exactly what you need.

All that said, much of the electrical engineering req'd to do most of this is beyond my current skillset/knowledge, but hey, gotta learn somehow right? 2013 might just have to be my big year of experimenting.

Again, kudos for the progress on this experiment of yours, can't wait to have the money to try my own!



 


I added some answers in your quote above.

I'm glad to see the interest beginning to grow I guess curiosity can and will get us all at some point.

What I have learned since this project began is invaluable information, at least to me seeing as how I am actually doing it, and using it to cool my machine on a daily basis.

As you've already discovered some of the available information out there just does not apply to this setup, and it's new territory using the TECs to chill a water mass, then use the water mass to cool the computer, all in one cyclic loop.

As an experiment it's almost never done simply because there's so much to learn, not everything and every test is successful, but when it is successful, it is very successful.

It's hard for some to wrap their brain around and grasp how efficient the heat sink heat pipe cooler is at controlling the hot sides heat.

Fan speed variation is an option that becomes a tuning point to control the balance of the peltiers Hot/Cold which is very important in acquiring the cold output needed to chill the water.

Too much either way and the peltier stalls and that is what you have to learn to control or you have nothing.

Thanks for your interest and encouragement! Ryan
 


Interesting link you provided and the author appears to be quite informed but I'm successfully using some of what he doesn't even recommend, so what do I do?

Take his advice or continue using my present successful cooling setup? :)

You surely do not need a $220.00 water block and heat pipe air coolers can and will cool the hotside!

No offense to you, but If I had listened to him, I would not have this setup in operation!


 
I guess I can class my own self as simple minded, I do not know the in depth entire operation of what's under the hood of a CPU nor do I care, what I do care about is that it works, and I can get more from it by overclocking than the manufacturer intended.

In the same respect I do not know all the in depth details of the inner workings of the Peltier, all I care about is what it does, and how I can use that for my own goals, so how it does what it does is irrelevant, the only thing relevant is what it does do, that I can manipulate and take advantage of.

KISS is my goal, (Keep It Simple Stupid), Because if simple works there's no need to over complicate the issue!

Some of the very discoveries of this thread are regarding using and manipulating the very things others say not to do.

If I had listened to others, I would have never done this TEC cooling in the first place, even in this thread there were negative responses, but at the same time curiosity, if some idiot would try it.

Well the idiot takes a Bow!

Thank You! Thank You very much! 😀

So now I have a below ambient cooling solution allowing water temperatures down to 10c without any condensation concerns, I can go below 10c by using fans to evaporate the condensation down to 5c.

The hot side of the Peltiers are air cooled.

Both Peltiers are being powered by 1 Single 12v rail PC Power Supply, not connected by molex connectors but getting the power through heavier 14g M/B connection wires.

My goals from this point are to test other various combinations and to condense the size of the entire setup!

So the simple minded idiot, continues his discoveries, and enjoys the below ambient cooling he was after in the beginning!

:hello:
 


i stopped reading when the guy said a tec could have over 100% efficiency or maybe that was just my interpretation of what he said.

"To begin with the Term “Efficient” is NOT the correct term to use when comparing the amount of electricity used to what It’s able to move. As this can exceed 100% by a long way."
 
Im new to all of this TEC cooling but i managed to get -3oC today with a small thermaltake BTX heat sink ( http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/121031845370?ssPageName=STRK:MEWNX:IT&_trksid=p3984.m1439.l2649#ht_1850wt_1163) So that just proves you can cool the hot side by air.

Temp readout
http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u653/nathan_nelson1/photo1_zpscf4adf77.jpg

Heatsink
http://i1326.photobucket.com/albums/u653/nathan_nelson1/photo2_zps20ad7fc3.jpg

It was just a test setup so thats why its all messy next step is to mount the waterblock to see if i can watercool a chair or i might slap a heat sink on the cool side with a fan and have a mini aircon :)

Sorry for taking over a bit there thanks for all the help Ryan it was alot of fun trying out different designs and learning new things.
 


Yes that is the original RadBox, however after discovering just how much heat the full coverage water blocked GPUs add to the loop I decided to isolate the GPUs on their own loop and cut down height wise an old Chieftec Dragon case and that is the new independent Mini RadBox.

The MiniRad is wall mounted behind main computer, but even though it is called the MiniRad, it is still a comparable size and space occupier, if I decide to keep the 2 loop setup I may eventually move the main computer guts into a case the Rads can be mounted inside and do away with the MiniRad.

GPUCooling6.png


GPUCooling8.png


GPUCooling1.png


I have no intentions of incorporating the TECs all into the present SuperMicro Server Case, (the present old RadBox), because it has been butchered to the point it is weakened, and it never was setup properly (Factory Designed), to receive them like I intend to mount them anyway.

I have ordered a new case, which is to house my TEC Assemblies, Power Supply, Pump, and Reservoir, and become my new TECBox.

The AZZA Solano 1000 is setup just for my needs, as you will see once it is all completed.

It has a top to bottom open 10 5 1/2" drive bay area which is where the TEC assemblies will be mounted exhausting their heat out the front of the case.

The bottom power supply mounting will allow the 2nd power supply mounting inside the case instead of it being outside.

Pump mounting and fan controller will be determined once I have the case in hand to determine the best mounting location for them.

And the new reservoir painted black to match the case color mounted at the rear top blowhole area, and actually if all goes as planned I should receive the case today.
 


That looks like the AMD mounting bracket for the XSPC Raystorm CPU water block?

It also looks stressed pretty bad and you're only using 2 screws, and the plexiglass is bent, the design uses the water block itself as leverage points to decrease the clamping stress bend, the mounting plate itself was never designed to be used without the block, be careful you do not break it!

Is the Raystorm your intended cold pickup?
 


:lol:

We could start our on water cooling testing club!

"Idiots R Us" :lol:

or "The Cooling Geeks" :lol:

It's a sub minority group interested in this cooling anyway.

Too many seem to be content with the way things are and are intimidated by the thought of going past a package deal.

But as Moto has said many times, there are few situations that some kind of modding isn't required, that there are very few out of the box solutions that fit perfectly, and the introduction to water cooling is also the introduction into modding.

So once one gets past the initial fear of modding a brand new case, they've already crossed the line to all other modding possibilities, but for the largest majority it ends right there, wiping their sweat off their brow they somehow pulled it off!

Whereas this modding goes beyond any boxed solution, we're writing a new story in modding and cooling altogether. :)
 


There's quite a few things he is in error about at least from what I have already discovered myself and put into useable cooling, but he did write that back in 2010 I believe?

I won't pick apart what he wrote because I fully understand how much work is involved in presenting something like that in the first place.

I'll just glean what I can use information wise, that I know is correct, for my own purposes.
 
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