Question Fan runs much faster & louder than expected - - did I undersize my CPU cooler ?

[rwhipple08]

I didn't see a guide for posting cooling-related questions, please let me know if more info is needed.

I recently built a new gaming PC. I'm surprised by how fast & loud the CPU cooler fan is. It is leading me to think I undersized the air cooler or have made some other mistake in part selection or assembly.

• CPU: AMD Ryzen 5 9600X (65W TDP)
• Cooler: ID-COOLING FROZN A410 (220W TDP)
• GPU: Radeon RX 9060XT 16GB
• Case: Fractal Design Define 5
• Fan Configuration
  • Intake:
    • Front: 2x Fractal Design fans that came with the case. (I am leaving the front panel open as well)
    • Bottom: 1x Arctic P14 PWM PST
    • Side (Below GPU): 1x Arctic P14 PWM PST
  • Exhaust:
    • Top: 1x Arctic P14 PWM PST
    • Rear: 1x Arctic P14 PWM PST

CPU idles at 37C with fan at 1080 RPM which is pretty quiet. However, under load the CPU gets to 65C and the fan is spinning up to 1800 RPM. It is noticeably loud.

For comparison, my old machine where fan noise was low and never increased noticeably, even under load:

• CPU: Intel Core I5-4460 (84W TDP) Higher!
• Cooler: Noctua NH-U9S
• GPU: GeForce GTX 1050 Ti
• Case: Thermaltake Core V1
• Fan Configuration
  • Intake:
    • Front: 1x 200mm case fan

I believed that since I was going from 84W to 65W on the CPU, that I could go with a slightly smaller air cooler as well and still have a quiet machine. It seems I was incorrect.

What do you think? Do I need a larger cooler? Should I consider switching to an AIO if my goal is a constant, quiet performance? Or are my components good on paper and do I need to reconsider fan layout, investigate voltages, etc?

 

[Lutfij]

Nope, you've got the right cooler for the job and the temps look to be fine. In fact, see if your temps drop if you remove the front fascia for the case(and you've disconnected the side panel fan). One other thing you can do is undervolt the CPU using Ryzen Master's Curve Optimizer as well as the GPU for lower temps.

To add TDP isn't the only thing you should be looking at, the Haswell platform and the AM5 platforms aren't the same architecture and as such don't behave the same way when taxed.

 

[geofelt]

Your temperatures seems nominal.
Check your motherboard bios fan control settings.
Perhaps it is ramping up to 1800 rpm too quickly.

If your goal is consistent quiet then look for a cooler with a good 120/140 mm fan with a top speed of 1500 rpm.
Noctua makes the best, but they are expensive compared to similar thermalright peerless assassin coolers.

And, I would experiment with disconnecting the top exhaust fan.
Theory is that such a fan redirects the front intake cooling air up and out of the case before it gets to the cpu cooler.

 

[Paperdoc]

Small thought - may not be relevant. The two front case vent fan supplied with that case are the older 3-pin Voltage Controlled (aka DC) fan design.That means that the header they are plugged into MUST be set to use that older MODE, and NOT to use the PWM Mode your other two case fans need. IF those front fans are on a header using PWM Mode OR if they are connected to a single fan HUB for all four case fans, they will always run full speed. So, is the high fan noise you experience from those front fans, or really from the CPU cooler as you say?

 

[rwhipple08]

@Lutfij Why would I disconnect the side intake? I may look into undervolting if other things don't work. How can I evaluate the differences between architectures for cooling? I figured TDP took that all into consideration already, a "when all's said and done" type metric that just measured the raw about of heat I need to remove.

@geofelt I had heard about the issue with having tops open, so I only opened the one that was above/behind the CPU cooler. I experimented putting that cover back into place and it did indeed help. If I have to replace a cooler, I'll look into one with a fan setup like you recommend.

@Paperdoc Good point. I noticed the case fans were 3 pin but didn't know if that would matter. I can plug them back into the built-in fan controller. That said, the noise varies with load and I can watch fan speed and CPU temps on the Gigabyte control panel (or whatever they call that software), so it isn't coming from maxed-out front intake fans.

 

[Paperdoc]

Tell us the exact model of your Gigabyt mobo so we can look up details.

For the front fans, the case's built-in "controller" is really just a MANUAL three-speed switch on the front panel according to the manual. I is better to have those two connected (using a Spltter) to a mobo header that is set to DC Mode. That way their speed WILL be controlled according to a mobo temp sensor. If you need advice on how to choose a Splitter and not a Hub for the front fans, I can advise.

The issue of top fans "stealing" air really pertains almost always to a top fan at the very FRONT, and right above a FRONT fan at the top. Your case cannot mount a font fan at top, and the TWO top fan ports you have (middle and rear) are NOT likely to cause this trouble. In fact, if you continue to use all six case fans you have noted, you could actually add one more in the top middle position as exhaust to increase total air flow a bit.

Inside the case front there are two mounting frames supplied for 3½" drives, one with 3 slots and one with five. They can be relocated or removed. If you do not need all those slots, you could remove either of those two and relocate the remaining one wherever - maybe to the bottom. This would remove a small amount of air flow resistance behind the front fan pair.

Just a general note so you understand a detail. Any fan header on a mobo can deal with the speed signal sent back to it (via Pin #3) from only ONE fan. So when you use a Splitter or a Hub to connect more than one fan to any header, that header actually will receive and display for you the speed of ONE of the fans in that group. The speed of any others in that group will never be "seen" anywhere, and you are just to assume it is the same as others of that group IF they are all identical fans.

Since you are confident the noise issue is with the CPU cooler, tell us what setting you have for that fan header for its Profile. That is, the option where you choose from things like Standard or Normal, Quiet, Turbo, or Customized. In that last case you get to set the "fan curve" of speed versus temperature to your own liking.

 

[rwhipple08]

@Paperdoc Thanks for the detailed questions and advice.

Motherboard is a Gigabyte B850 Gaming X WiFi 6E.

When I plugged the intake fans into the MB, the Gigabyte app showed the speeds were dynamic with temps, so perhaps the motherboard automatically switches between PWM and voltage mode?

This PC is doing dual duty as a gaming PC and a Jellyfin server, so I am using the optical drive cage & slot, and I plan to leave all drive cages in place now since those slots will eventually fill up as storage requirements grow.

So far I have used the "Silent" preset for the fan profile. I have experimented with the others including manual just to get a sense for various temps and noise at different settings.

One thing I'll note is that before I added all the extra fans, the GPU fans would spin up very high. I think their size and speed range made their noise distinctive. Since adding the extra case fans, the GPU fans never spool up to a point I notice them above everything else, so they definitely did improve that aspect of cooling performance.

 

[Misgar]

I'm surprised by how fast & loud the CPU cooler fan is.

I have a Fractal Design R5 myself so I know it can accommodate really big air coolers.

Although your Frozn A410 is adequately rated to cool a 'nominal' 65W TDP CPU, if you're unhappy with the noise, consider a bigger dual-tower dual-fan cooler:-
https://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-Peerless-SE-Aluminium-Technology/dp/B09LGY38L4
https://www.amazon.com/Thermalright-Phantom-TL-C12B-Technilogy-Bearing/dp/B0BNDTJVPL

The Thermaltake Peerless Assassin (6-heatpipes) and Phantom Spirit (7-heatpipes) are massive overkill for a 65W CPU, but with all that extra thermal mass and more heatpipes, the twin fans tick over at a few hundred RPM.

You can get smaller, more sensibly sized coolers, which should still produce less noise than the Frozn A410.

I should warn you. You might be alarmed when you get either of these heatsinks out of the box. They're BIG. Think carefully and check GPU slot clearance before buying. Don't worry about RAM clearance, you can move the front fan up on the heatsink, with a deep case like the R5.

I believed that since I was going from 84W to 65W on the CPU, that I could go with a slightly smaller air cooler

This is where things get tricky.

Modern CPUs have several different power ratings, which allow them to boost for a certain period of time if cooling is adequate. Hence you'll see different figures for the 9600X, as shown in this web site:-
https://www.techpowerup.com/cpu-specs/ryzen-5-9600x.c3652

TDP:	65 W
Extended cTDP¹:	105 W
PPT:	88 W
Extended PPT¹:	142 W

Don't be alarmed, the 9600X is unlikely to draw more than 88W in most scenarios, but if you run Cinebench and monitor CPU power consumption in HWMonitor, you may find it exceeds 65W:
https://apps.microsoft.com/detail/9pgzkjc81q7j?hl=en-us&gl=US
https://www.cpuid.com/softwares/hwmonitor.html

I find Handbrake one of the most power hungry apps on my PC and this graph shows the 9600X drawing 84W.
https://www.tomshardware.com/pc-components/cpus/amd-ryzen-5-9600x-cpu-review/4

If you chose your heatsink based on 65W TDP, think again. The 9600X can pull 88W in Prime95. This might explain why your Frozn A410 gets noisy at times. It's only doing its job dissipating the increased power.

I have a Phantom Spirit in one of my rigs on a mid-level Intel CPU and I can't hear any noise from its twin 120mm fans. I have a Noctua NH-D15 on a 7950X and it does get loud when the AMD CPU is dissipating 200W.

 

[Paperdoc]

Thanks for info. I just noticed something odd, but maybe it's just a misunderstanding. Your first list of case fan shows ALL of them under the heading "Intake". I had assumed that the TWO fans at top rear and rear are exhaust, and the other four are intakes. Is that right?

Your mobo has six SYS_FAN headers suitable for case ventilation fans. Of these, two are SYS_FAN / PUMP, so both of those should be configured in their screens to be FAN headers and not PUMP headers. (Setting them as PUMP will make their fan run full speed always.) Since you have six case vent fans, have you set them up so each is on its on a separate header and you use NO Splitters or Hub? That is the best way. When you do that, you need only ensure that each of these headers is set to the SAME configuration so they all do the same thing, at least initially. Later you can change one or more if you find a need to.

On p.6 of the BIOS Setup manual it says that each fan header under the Fan/Pump Control Mode item has an Auto option. This is to simplify settings for the user. What it really does is that at every start-up it tests the fan attached to it. It tries to change its fan's speed using the new PWM Mode of signals. If that works, it's all OK. If the fan speed cannot be changed that way, it deduces that it must have an older 3-pin fan and changes to Voltage Control Mode. So if all your case fans are attached to separate headers, the two front 3-pin fans will benefit from this feature because their headers will make that adjustment automatically. That would explain why it IS working properly for you.

For EVERY header used for case vent fans, the item in its configuration screen for Fan Control Use Temperature Input needs to be set to Motherboard or System, and NOT to CPU. Every fan header is guided by a temperature sensor. For case vent fans, the relevant sensor is one on the motherboard, and not the one inside the CPU chip.

Generally Fan Speed Control should be set to Normal. Using Silent forces the fan to run significantly slower than needed, so your system is forced to run hotter in order to reduce fan noise. Normal gives you the correct cooling. As you have experienced, this impacts also the availability of cooler air in the case to be used for cooling the video card. The Manual option allows you to specify the several points on the "fan curve" for your own customized version. I recommend you defer experimenting with this until you have some experience using under the Normal default fan curves.

 

[rwhipple08]

@Misgar Cool to hear you have the same case and know what I'm working with.

I had assumed the 65W TDP was an upper limit, like a "rated-for", and not an average or target value. That explains a lot and is good to know for the future.

I'm OK with putting in a huge air cooler. The case is opaque anyway so internal aesthetics don't matter. My last motherboard was a little flimsy so I'd be hesitant to install a huge air cooler, but this board is stiff and I have no concerns there. I wonder if there is a point at which an AIO makes more sense than a gigantic air cooler though.

My last CPU cooler was Noctua and it was great. There is a big difference in price point between the Phantom Spirit and the NH-D15...do you think the NH-D15 is worth the premium in this situation?

@Paperdoc You are absolutely right...I had problems with formatting that post and I didn't see that the final result was wrong. I have edited it to be correct! I have removed the top exhaust and covered that vent based on conversations since the OP though.

Currently, each fan is plugged in to its own header on the motherboard. Cool to know the MB does that test on startup to determine PWM/VC mode.

All fans except the CPU are set to use the SYSTEM1 monitoring point.

I'll run in Normal for a while. I hadn't considered that increasing the other fans for a small increase in baseline noise level might allow the CPU cooler to avoid hitting such heights.