Archived from groups: alt.comp.hardware.homebuilt (
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On Tue, 06 Apr 2004 17:36:13 GMT, "Mark & Mary Ann Weiss"
<mweissX294@earthlink.net> wrote:
>Yeah, I suppose I need to hire a voodoo expert, as I seem to be haunted with
>many Maxtor failures.
>I should point out that the failures were on various PCs, not all on one PC.
That's the puzzling part. I didn't mean to get too personal, but look at
it from our perspective, that the only commonality here is that you are
involved... There is no obvious problem in what you're doing, at least not
that you mention, yet your failure rates are atypical... If it were only
one or two drives, it could be considered a random failure, but it's not
so random after multiple failures.
>After letting this PC cool down for an hour, I was able to boot it. The C
>drive was flakey however, appearing then disappearing and causing Win 2K to
>BSOD during boot with a no valid boot device error. A subsequent reboot
>allowed Windows to boot fully and I've managed to copy over critical
>business data from the 1st physical drive to another drive. The problem is
>that I've got over 100 gigs of data left on the RAID with nowhere large
>enough to copy it to. It would take 27 hours to back it up to DVD-R discs.
Ya know, some RAID controllers are prone to lose configurations. Since
you have multiple systems at issue you might not be having this problem,
but it's another thing to consider.
>I think the ultimate solution is to go back to SCSI drives. I've never had
>one of those fail. The problem is price and low capacity and low speed
>(compared to today's fast IDE drives).
If that's what it takes, use SCSI. On the other hand, mirrored arrays of
IDE drives may not be more expensive, and would provide the redundancy
that's clearly needed, particularly for somone like yourself who keeps
having drive failures and can't take the time to make backups.
>> If you can't get a drive working right for your needs, pay a professional
>> to do it. Perhaps you have poor power or your wife kicks your system out
>> of spite... I just don't know, but nobody is so unlucky to have this many
>> failures with different models, not with so many other people seeing
>> normal service, no significant difference in failure rate of Maxtors over
>> any other brand.
>
>I've been building computers professionally since the 1980s, and I am a
>certified Professional Engineer with BSEE and BSME degrees, so I certainly
>know how to install and setup simple PC hard drives. I've taken into account
>factors like conditioned power, thermodynamics and cable dress, to ensure
>that I've eliminated as many causes for failure as possible. The room
>temperature is 66 degrees F, dropping to 64F overnight (which is when the
>drive failed).
yeah, yeah, yeah.... No doubt you're good at many aspects of PCs, but
NOBODY is an expert at everything. Actually it's usually the engineers or
wannabes that have the most problems because in addition to their
knowledge they have preconceived notions, assumptions that aren't
necessarily true. The preceeding isn't _necessarily_ directed at you,
but it could apply. Re/re/review everything again and see if there isn't
something about your setup that is different... don't assume it's ok, look
at how it differs from (most everyone's) properly working drive(s).
I'd look at the IDE controllers, system power supplies. Perhaps it's
overheating if you've tightly stacked the drives but otherwise it seems
less likely, given the server case with a multitude of fans in ~65F
ambient.
>I've got a TrippLite line conditioner on this circuit and the whole circuit
>feeding the computer network is fed by a huge APC UPS with additional line
>filtering. As a last line of defense, I have power strips with MOV surge
>protectors, right where the PC is plugged in.
It's good to have line conditioning but you make no mention of the power
supply itself. That would be isolated to one system, or perhaps not? I
see businessses and purchasers of bulk equipment that may have several of
the same thing, so when they have a problem they're facing it on multiple
machines. Look for commonalities to these failures, as it's not common
for a drive to fail that quickly even if running a bit too hot.
>
>Thermally, I have six 80 and 120mm fans cooling the tower. The new drive
>that failed, was the one by itself, closest to one of the fans, in the
>bottom of the case. Clearly, if the drive cannot function at 75F (internal
>temp measured at that location) then there is something clearly wrong with
>it.
"Close to" equates to actively cooled? Perhaps it does, only you have the
system in front of you. Perhaps the temp is fine, but a 75F ambient
without sufficient airflow reducing the drive's operating temp will likely
result in excessive temp, but it shouldn't have failed THAT quickly.
>In contrast, my Seagate 4.5GB wide SCSI drive is in another system that has
>only one fan in the PSU, runs hot as hell, and has been running since 1995
>24/7 without a failure, and continues to run as I type this. I also have a
>Seagate ST12550N in a Pentium 100 system, that also runs hot, but has been
>running since 1991, 24/7 and is accessible right now.
.... then buy a Seagate SCSI
Let's play Devil's advocate for a second. Maybe Maxor is the worst
possible brand and will fail 20 seconds after being powered on. Maybe
they have something against you and are conspiring against you, so the
cost savings doesn't matter since they don't work, and even a free
replacement is of no use, so you buy what you need and move on.... you
like SCSI, buy SCSI. As for cheaper IDE drives, I don't see any reason to
believe Western Digital or Seagate (or any other brand for that matter)
will last longer... users report failures of all brands, seeminly at a
rate correspondant to the sales volume. If there's one drive that seems
more prone to failure in recent history it's a Western Digital Raptor...
at places like Newegg.com there are user reports of roughly 1 in 12
failing, but then those must be taken with a grain of salt... the same
users may be buying .7mm thick cases that sway sideways when the wind
blows and have power supplies worth 1/2 the rated output.
>> If you lost all your income tax return data, it's your own fault. I
>> emphasized making backups but you didn't seem to have enough sense to take
>> that to heart and just do it. Learn from your mistakes instead of whining
>> and blaming.
>
>I'll admit that was not so smart, but TaxCut needs a floppy to back up and
>the new systems don't have floppy drives.
User error. Taxcut needs backup to floppy but user didn't install a basic
component that's dirt-cheap and standard equipment for decades. What
where you thinking? Nevermind, it doesn't matter, you were thinking you
don't have to backup data. The experience you refered to previously,
obviously isn't sufficient because you still don't make backups. Even if
you have TB of data, that is not an exemption from timely backups.
In case it isn't clear yet, you need to backup your data.
>I was planning to burn a CD the
>other day, but didn't get around to it. Frankly, I didn't expect the new
>drive to fail so soon.
Backups are not based around expectations or some hint of problems.
They're a standard practice for any valuable data.
>
>
>> On the other hand, you seem to be a troll, against Maxtor, since you
>> previously reported problems yet bought another Maxtor. If you'd had
>> valid suspicions about Maxtor drives they would've been the last brand to
>> buy, since they aren't the only brand out there...
>
>Not at all. You seem to have an attitude problem.
I"m not the one who can't keep drives working, including Maxtors. I
probably have the same model that just failed on you, I'm certain it's a
120GB Maxtor... running flawlessly as are plenty of other Maxtors and
other make of IDE drives. Even so, I MAKE BACKUPS.
So, the person who has continual drive failures, doesn't make backups.
Who needs their attitude adjusted?
> But then Usenet is full of
>your high and mighty kind.
LOL.
Let's review.
Last time you posted, didn't I advise to make backups?
Did you?
Who was too "high and mighty" to follow standard data storage practices?
Who provided good advice even though it fell on deaf ears?
>I'm a power user of hardware
You're a reckless user of hardware. A storage power user would have SCSI
or at least WD Raptors. A video editing power user would save to lossless
compressed format to conserve space, and use the extra space for backup
and/or a mirror if they didn't have that in place already, were forced to
use the compression in able to have adequate storage space for it.
>and I am just
>dismayed that IDE drives don't last to 1% of their MTBF rating. They should
>last as long as SCSI drives, but alas, I think I am seeing a false economy
>with IDE.. they are apparently built of cheap components to sell cheap, and
>the consolation is liberal return policies. A waste-making business
>philosophy.
That is only apparent to you, since the rest of the industry isn't seeing
same failure rate. You must live in an alternate universe where the only
viable solution is a Seagate SCSI. Fortunately you are free to buy
whatever you like. At any rate, you seem jinxed against Maxtors... sell
the replacement on ebay and buy something else. Meanwhile my Maxtors are
running fine... there are two different ways to approach a solution but
either does not exclude backing up all valuable data.
Of course, it's
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