Germany makes Valve change HL2 box

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On that special day, Gandalf Parker,
(gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites) said...

> If he bought a CD with a game on it, then he owns a CD but not
> the game.

Does that mean, if I buy a book, I own the paper, but not the letters on
it? Your description is exactly like this.


Gabriele Neukam

Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de


--
Ah, Information. A property, too valuable these days, to give it away,
just so, at no cost.
 
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Gabriele Neukam wrote:

> On that special day, Gandalf Parker,
> (gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites) said...
>
>
>>If he bought a CD with a game on it, then he owns a CD but not
>>the game.
>
>
> Does that mean, if I buy a book, I own the paper, but not the letters on
> it? Your description is exactly like this.

That's the way it works though...you own the medium, but not the data on
it...
 
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Chris Pound wrote:
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 07:31:29 +0000, Andrew <spamtrap@localhost.>
> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Valve aren't the publisher you frigging clueless moron. Nice to see
>>you are showing yourself as a real troll and changing your address.
>>*plonk*
>
>
> Valve are the developers of Steam you moron.

Looks we have a new "angry voice of gaming".
 
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On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 05:10:58 GMT, Jeff Holinski
<nospam_holinski@shaw.ca> wrote:


>When people refer to IQ's they're refering to the score not what time
>you took it.

Yea, well, IQ tests aren't about proper use of puncuation either.
 
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"Werner Spahl" <spahl@cup.uni-muenchen.de> wrote in message
news😛ine.LNX.4.58.0502111030030.1411@cicum1.cup.uni-muenchen.de...
> On Thu, 10 Feb 2005, OldDog wrote:
>
> > The publisher of HL2 is VU Games. They're the ones that are being less
> > than honest about what's on the HL2 box.
>
> Hello? AFAIK VU Games was fighting in court to prevent the whole Steam
> issue in the first place. I bet if Valve would let them, there would be
> retail versions without Steam, which of course would lower Steam sales
> which Valve is not interested in...
>

I just realized that when I started this thread that I wrote Valve in the
subject line. I don't have the link any more, but I don't see how going
after Valve will do anything about how the Publisher markets the game. Oh
well, it'll be interesting to see how this all plays out.
 
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Thusly Gabriele Neukam <Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de> Spake
Unto All:

>> If he bought a CD with a game on it, then he owns a CD but not
>> the game.
>
>Does that mean, if I buy a book, I own the paper, but not the letters on
>it? Your description is exactly like this.

That is exactly what it means, yes.
You own the medium, so you can burn or sell the book, but you don't
own the content, so you cant xerox it and sell copies.



--
The US employs divide-and-conquer against EU
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-02/10/content_2567438.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3981499.stm
http://www.fsfinalword.com/archive/Divide_and_conquer.html

The US is no longer our ally: Federalize NOW!
 
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Thusly Walter Mitty <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> Spake Unto All:

>>>Valve aren't the publisher you frigging clueless moron. Nice to see
>>>you are showing yourself as a real troll and changing your address.
>>>*plonk*
>>
>>
>> Valve are the developers of Steam you moron.
>
>Looks we have a new "angry voice of gaming".

Hell hath no fury like a pirate banned.



--
The US employs divide-and-conquer against EU
http://news.xinhuanet.com/english/2005-02/10/content_2567438.htm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/3981499.stm
http://www.fsfinalword.com/archive/Divide_and_conquer.html

The US is no longer our ally: Federalize NOW!
 
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On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:26:46 +0100, Mean_Chlorine
<mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:


>Hell hath no fury like a pirate banned.

I don't have HL2 on my PC, not even a pirated version. I've got better
games to play.
 
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Gabriele Neukam <Gabriele.Spamfighter.Neukam@t-online.de> wrote in
news:cuio2e$s8c$04$2@news.t-online.com:

> On that special day, Gandalf Parker,
> (gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites) said...
>
>> If he bought a CD with a game on it, then he owns a CD but not
>> the game.
>
> Does that mean, if I buy a book, I own the paper, but not the letters
> on it? Your description is exactly like this.

Exactly. What you can and cannot do are based on owning the book, and
not what is written in it. You can sell a book, or burn it, or use it
for a completely different purpose such as propping up the leg of a
table. You cannot sell what was written in the book, you have to sell
your copy of it. You cannot use part of what is written in the book as
part of another project except in very specifically allowed cases. In
other words the rights you have are defined very differently between the
book (owning the media) and the content (what is in the book). The same
goes for music tapes. The same goes for movie VCRs. The same goes for
buying a magazine, or a newspaper, or a any media.

But for SOME reason, I keep seeing people in these newsgroups saying
stupid things about their rights to do things with a program based on
buying it on a CD. Some get it right but many others want to shift it
from owning the CD to owning the program. If they thought about the fact
that the laws are based on the same rights and privileges as any other
media (until new laws are written) they would do much better in these
conversations.

Gandalf Parker
 
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On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:48:44 -0800, Chris Pound
<Chris@invalid.noemail> wrote:


>Yea, well, IQ tests aren't about proper use of puncuation either.

Or spelling.
 
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On Thu, 10 Feb 2005 21:36:05 GMT, "OldDog" <OldDog@citypound.com>
wrote:

>
>"sayNO2steam" <sayNO2steam@yahoo.com> wrote in message
>news:rd1m01d0fc2nke6q21og1probg8dgfdvok@4ax.com...
>> Germany makes Valve change HL2 box
>>
>> this is good news for gamers and the protection of consumer rights
>> Germany was the first to see what us gamers have been warning since
>> the beginning, that HL2 is being sold in a retail box with no PROPER
>> labeling or info about the $team technology that its selling
>>
>
>This is bad news for the publisher of Half Life 2. Although "sayNO2steam",
>who writes an awlful lot like difool, failed to mention that in this case
>the publisher is VU Games. VU Games is not Valve which is the developer of
>HL2. VU Games is the same old standard publisher that we've been dealing
>with for the last several years. This publisher has robbed the developer
>of HL2 (Valve) of royalties, and is now being less than honest with single
>player customers about setting up and playing HL2 single player component.
>

You need not worry. I suspect that VU will get out of any retail
distribution contract with Valve as fast as they can. You have
conveniently forgotten that Valve/VU litigation is still pending on
Valve's use of Steam as an alternate distribution without VU
approval.

In fact, I shall be very interested in seeing exactly who will
retail-distribute future Valve games. If Valve sticks with
on-line sales only, then they will surely die and their IP/key
technical personnel be cheaply bought out (and the company
disbanded) by a big retail distributor such as EA.

John Lewis

>In fact, I'm still waiting for a picture posted on the web by difool that
>compares the VU Games CEO to Stalin, or Pol Pot, or Josef Mengele...
>
>
>> the insignificant reference you can find in the bottom of HL2 back
>> cover to "internet required" is totally insuficient to describe what
>> $team is and does and requires, so this move Germany made is very
>> welcome
>>
>> but also Germany makes reference to shifts in the traditional way
>> of selling games that also have to be addressed, like not being able
>> to sell it in the 2nd hand market or the fee you must pay valve to
>> change cd-key ownership
>> Germany looked at much more than the simple "internet required" but
>> to the brother picture of that $team is trying to do
>>
>> we now hope every country in the world will follow Germany path and
>> much more investigation will be made to valve and $team, cause we
>> won a battle but not the war! we must go on and continue fighting
>> cause it ain't over yet
>>
>
>The publisher of HL2 is VU Games. They're the ones that are being less
>than honest about what's on the HL2 box.
>
>As to the war, it's just a matter of time. One day soon, CD/DVDs will be
>setting next to the abacas, slide rule, 8 inch floppy, and the 8-track in a
>museum.
>
><snip>
>> ps: a big thanks to olddog that first post this great breaking news
>>
>
>No need to thank me. Cause my next pc game is going to be box-free,
>gas-free, save the envirnoment, .... which means I'm looking forward to the
>next Steam released game. 😉
>
>ps Are you difool? The same person that's called me: stupid, Steam
>lover, ignorant, dumb, dumber, dumbest, selfish, uncaring, ....? Cause
>there's no need to thank me for pointing out ground breaking news about
>flaws in the PUBLISHERs game box. 😉
>
>> --
>> test
>
>test complete.
>
>
 
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Thusly john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis) Spake Unto All:

>You need not worry. I suspect that VU will get out of any retail
>distribution contract with Valve as fast as they can.

After HL2 sold for $25M?
Yeah, I bet they'll be just itching to drop that contract.
 
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In article <Xns95FB3DB326938gandalfparker@208.201.224.154>,
Gandalf Parker <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
>
>Exactly. What you can and cannot do are based on owning the book, and
>not what is written in it. You can sell a book, or burn it, or use it
>for a completely different purpose such as propping up the leg of a
>table. You cannot sell what was written in the book, you have to sell
>your copy of it.
> (...)

Is this concept compatible with a $10 fee for transferring the right
to use the copy to somebody else?

Cheers
Bent D
--
Bent Dalager - bcd@pvv.org - http://www.pvv.org/~bcd
powered by emacs
 
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Chris Pound wrote:
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 23:26:46 +0100, Mean_Chlorine
> <mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>>Hell hath no fury like a pirate banned.
>
>
> I don't have HL2 on my PC, not even a pirated version. I've got better
> games to play.

And yet you seem very opinionated on Valve and Vivendi. Interesting.
 
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On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 01:13:44 +0100, Walter Mitty
<mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:


>And yet you seem very opinionated on Valve and Vivendi. Interesting.

Anti-steam is why. As any intelligent gamer should be.
 
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Chris Pound wrote:
> On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 01:13:44 +0100, Walter Mitty
> <mitticus@yahoo.co.uk> wrote:
>
>
>
>>And yet you seem very opinionated on Valve and Vivendi. Interesting.
>
>
> Anti-steam is why. As any intelligent gamer should be.

What is with you "anti-steam" guys? You keep referring to yourselves as
"intelligent". The constant need to inform us of your colossal
processing powers is surely indicative of the absurdity of your claim.

Interestingly enough, you share a trait with our Mr Lewis : the ability
to constantly whinge and whine without actually having tried the SW
yourself.
 
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In article <cum8u9$v1q$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>, bcd@pvv.ntnu.no says...
> In article <Xns95FB3DB326938gandalfparker@208.201.224.154>,
> Gandalf Parker <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
> >
> >Exactly. What you can and cannot do are based on owning the book, and
> >not what is written in it. You can sell a book, or burn it, or use it
> >for a completely different purpose such as propping up the leg of a
> >table. You cannot sell what was written in the book, you have to sell
> >your copy of it.
> > (...)
>
> Is this concept compatible with a $10 fee for transferring the right
> to use the copy to somebody else?

Probably not. I should imagine such a fee is an administration fee for
terminating an old Steam account and issuing a new one.

- Gerry Quinn
 
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"Chris Pound" <Chris@invalid.noemail> wrote in message
news:hr1t01di9f33e7sdqeqkp71drcc8k13lce@4ax.com...
> On Fri, 11 Feb 2005 21:48:44 -0800, Chris Pound
> <Chris@invalid.noemail> wrote:
>
>
>>Yea, well, IQ tests aren't about proper use of puncuation either.
>
> Or spelling.

Replying to your own posts? An obvious sign of being a knuckle-dragging
moronic braindead retard.
 
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On Sun, 13 Feb 2005 09:59:59 +1100, "Fred At Home"
<fredathome@fscans.cjb.net> wrote:


>Replying to your own posts? An obvious sign of being a knuckle-dragging
>moronic braindead retard.
>

Or realizing I'm the only superbeing here worth responding to.
 
Archived from groups: comp.sys.ibm.pc.games.action (More info?)

"Fred At Home" wrote

> "Chris Pound" wrote

>>>Yea, well, IQ tests aren't about proper use of puncuation either.

>> Or spelling.

> Replying to your own posts? An obvious sign of being a knuckle-dragging
> moronic braindead retard.

'Fred At Home'. Which home are you in?
 
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Gerry Quinn <gerryq@DELETETHISindigo.ie> wrote in
news:MPG.1c7934fc309107c5989e25@news.indigo.ie:

> In article <cum8u9$v1q$1@orkan.itea.ntnu.no>, bcd@pvv.ntnu.no says...
>> In article <Xns95FB3DB326938gandalfparker@208.201.224.154>,
>> Gandalf Parker <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
>> >
>> >Exactly. What you can and cannot do are based on owning the book, and
>> >not what is written in it. You can sell a book, or burn it, or use it
>> >for a completely different purpose such as propping up the leg of a
>> >table. You cannot sell what was written in the book, you have to sell
>> >your copy of it.
>> > (...)
>>
>> Is this concept compatible with a $10 fee for transferring the right
>> to use the copy to somebody else?
>
> Probably not. I should imagine such a fee is an administration fee for
> terminating an old Steam account and issuing a new one.

Yes I suspect its a "service fee". Like many service fees people might
get angry and feel its unnecessary, but they are considered legal. In
this case it would probably come out as "do whatever you want with the
game you bought. But why should we go to the trouble to switch things in
our database just because you sold your copy to someone. They need to pay
us a fee to switch it." There are plenty of examples of that type of
thing in real life.

Before anyone flames off on my, I am NOT saying I like the idea. This
appears to be another case of wanting to make "virtual" into a new thing
with new rules. Look to the old non-virtual rules. If its not that way,
then dont be surprised if someone suddenly "thinks" of it. That goes for
all the good stuff, and all the bad stuff.

Gandalf Parker
 
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In article <Xns95FC43385F0C5gandalfparker@208.201.224.154>,
Gandalf Parker <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
>
>Before anyone flames off on my, I am NOT saying I like the idea. This
>appears to be another case of wanting to make "virtual" into a new thing
>with new rules. Look to the old non-virtual rules. If its not that way,
>then dont be surprised if someone suddenly "thinks" of it. That goes for
>all the good stuff, and all the bad stuff.

There is certainly no shortage of MMO games that follow the running
subscription idea for software. While it might be somewhat original to
adopt the same type of service for a single-player game, it is still
in line with licensing schemes that have been used by other software
packages for some time now.

What does seem somewhat underhanded, though, is to introduce this sort
of scheme on a product in which it is not expected and then not making
this clear on the box. I suspect this might be illegal in large parts
of Europe and that it will remain so until it becomes commonplace for
retail games to follow a subscription model. I am not sure what US
consumer laws have to say about this, but European laws tend to put
much importance into what the general consumer reasonably expects of
the product and whether or not the product delivers on this
expectation.

Cheers
Bent D
--
Bent Dalager - bcd@pvv.org - http://www.pvv.org/~bcd
powered by emacs
 
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On Sat, 12 Feb 2005 20:09:38 +0100, Mean_Chlorine
<mike_noren2002@NOSPAMyahoo.co.uk> wrote:

>Thusly john.dsl@verizon.net (John Lewis) Spake Unto All:
>
>>You need not worry. I suspect that VU will get out of any retail
>>distribution contract with Valve as fast as they can.
>
>After HL2 sold for $25M?
>Yeah, I bet they'll be just itching to drop that contract.
>

And exactly what is Valve going to follow-up with in continuing
revenue?

VU cares about 3-month earnings-cycles. The past is gone.
They will be far more interested in supporting their own in-house
developer ( Blizzard) which is in the process of generating a
revenue-stream fortune with the wildly-popular WoW, than
in fighting any further legal battles in retail revenue-sharing with a
wild-card like Valve who has officially declared and implemented
a download-distribution channel in unrestricted competition with
retail.

Time will tell.

John Lewis


the stream of
 
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bcd@pvv.ntnu.no (Bent C Dalager) wrote in news:cuok0r$cs3$1
@orkan.itea.ntnu.no:

> What does seem somewhat underhanded, though, is to introduce this sort
> of scheme on a product in which it is not expected and then not making
> this clear on the box. I suspect this might be illegal in large parts
> of Europe and that it will remain so until it becomes commonplace for
> retail games to follow a subscription model. I am not sure what US
> consumer laws have to say about this, but European laws tend to put
> much importance into what the general consumer reasonably expects of
> the product and whether or not the product delivers on this
> expectation.

It might be new as a game. But Im not sure that its either underhanded, nor
that unepected, for a fee to be needed to update someones database. I dont
know if a case could be built saying that a customer resonably expected to
be able to transfer their account for free.

How would you picture it being put on the box?
Maybe something like "NOTE: a fee is required to process any resale of this
item"

Gandalf Parker
 
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In article <Xns95FCA3190F6F8gandalfparker@208.201.224.154>,
Gandalf Parker <gandalf@most.of.my.favorite.sites> wrote:
>
>It might be new as a game. But Im not sure that its either underhanded, nor
>that unepected, for a fee to be needed to update someones database. I dont
>know if a case could be built saying that a customer resonably expected to
>be able to transfer their account for free.

The thing is, I don't think it is obvious to the general gamer that an
online account should be needed to play a single player game.

>How would you picture it being put on the box?
>Maybe something like "NOTE: a fee is required to process any resale of this
>item"

A note along the lines of "complimentary online Steam subscription
required to install the game" might be enough of a hint. I don't think
it's necessary to get into excruciating detail on the box. The point
is to get across that this game has special strings attached.

If there was reason to believe that game resale is highly important to
the target audience, then your suggestion might be more appropriate,
however. I couldn't really tell as I never saw the need to resell my
games ...

Cheers
Bent D
--
Bent Dalager - bcd@pvv.org - http://www.pvv.org/~bcd
powered by emacs