GF100 (Fermi) previews and discussion

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lol what does that have to do with fermi discussion, that is generic ATI forever nvidia is burning fanboy crap.and seriously mis informing about time scale two generations in past 18 months i'm sorry but the R7xxx chip was out as early as 2 years ago about the same time as the GT200, which if you want to talk about who was tring more, the GT200 was a brand new arch like the fermi but it wasn't great in scaling which the fermi was promised to be, although gate leakage is imo the main issue, the refresh of fermi should be great imo.

also the GT210 220 were test cards to working to the 40nm process just like the 4770 was it's not mean to be powerful it's meant to test out the new nodes.

With Fermi so close to the hands of people who can do some legit benchmarks un bais like and all why bother with this nvidia is burning montra?

sorry if this is confusing to read i'm typing this from far away so i can't proof read.

granted so far the main benefits to the GF100 like better geometry i'd guess were side effects that were noticed during testing not there by intent.

Aslo the super high end market that buys 5970 doesn't give 2 shits about price ususally and cooling those are the people who over clock and water cool.

The GF100 is most likely more powerful then the 5870 by a good % not good enough to justify it's price but good enough to be the best and tri sli it up for performance king.

personally i'm still hoping nvidia has been fooling us all this time and the card is a like 100% gain over previous gen like the transition from 7900GTX to 8800GTX was but alais that is nothing more then a pipe dream, i'm guessing i'll have to wait for a R870 refresh and GF100 refresh till the price/ performance raito is promising to buy.
 


Did you just call me a fanboy? You better get your head on straight pal. I used exclusively nVidia cards from the TNT2 all the way to the 8500 GT! I only got my first ATi card in the last 20 years about 10 months ago. Don't you be calling me a fanboy I've been a loyal nVidia customer probably longer than you have. I've been watching what nVidia has been doing, and quite frankly, it's been stupid as all hell! Don't take my word for it, I only had to try to sell these things to poor unsuspecting consumers when I worked at tigerdirect knowing damn well that they were being ripped off. Oh, what the hell do I know, right? Here, read this if articles are all you listen to:

http://www.techspot.com/review/223-gainward-geforce-gt-240-review/page12.html

They keep shooting themselves in the foot with their greedy-a$$ed pricing! This review calls the GT 240 a flat-out RIP-OFF! And it's correct. You wonder why I finally got sick of nVidia? They started to think their fecal matter doesn't stink and that we should be HONOURED to hand over an extra $50 just so we can be sure that we're "acceptable" gamers with cards of green instead of red! Well I was looking HARD at the XFX GTX 260 but THIS SITE, tomshardware.com opened my eyes up to the ATi Radeon HD 4870 which had the same or better performance for $150 less! (at the time) Pardon me for not wanting my sphincter stretched by something long, hard and green. They say a fool and his money are soon parted. I'm no fool and from what I've seen, AMD has bent over backwards to make advanced consumer technology affordable for the average person while Intel's criminal antitrust empire and nVidia's relentless greed and sense of entitlement just keep pushing me further and further away, i7 and GF 100 be damned! I had Intel from the 8088 all the way to the Core 2 Duo before I got wise. After all that Intel and nVidia have done to rip us consumers off and delay technological advancement (9800 GTX+ / GTS 250) so they could soak us for more money, anyone who STILL likes them is the fanboy. I'm no fanboy, I'm just not Intel and nVidia's biatch anymore. I'm a free man now.
 



:) wel put. I have the same story. Tats why i went for amd Ati.
Nvidia first makes cards for the rich. Then it used to be like wait for the next gen to get their old cards. They are doin the same thing again. They have always milked us consumers bad.
I feel Ati prices their cards reasonable.
I still wonder and laugh at all those who bought 8800 for $800 +.
As the saying goes. They could fool some for some time. but not all for all the time.

 
All business are greedy mother fers, as soon as they are made open to the public for trading it is illegal to have an agenda that is not about making money first and foremost, as your stock holders can sue you them if their bottom line isn't about profits and is to have a moral driven agenda, just take a look at ben and jerry's the ice cream.

Yes the GF100 is long over due.

Yes Nvidia is selling crap way out of the price/performance raito when compared.

is it fair yes, do your mother fing homework before you buy *** people are sold *** that don't need and *** that they don't even know what it means all the time no matter what business, is it wrong maybe but you cant single out one company just for the hell of it.

What you think AMD is not money grubbing, when did you know a tech company to sell you defective produces that have been crippled to be uniform and resold to you as a new chip.

AMD has been doing this for quite some time with their cpu market and now they are leaking it to the ATI division selling their 5830's which by all means is just a 5870 crippled to be about the same all around and ATI doesn't even have the curiosity to give the partners a stock PBC design they just said f it make one up yourself.

All companies are money grubby

Yes i called you a fanboy and what do i define a fanboy as, one who denounces a company rival to the one they like for what ever reason. And your reason is intel and nvidia are morally corrupt so they aren't worth my time or yours but luckily AMD (which just so happens to own ATI) does align with the virtues of the world!

All squares are rectangles but not all rectangles are squares
just becuase you bought nvidia cards doesn't make you unbais.

Would i buy a GF100 if it came out, no probably not frankly i don't have the money to throw around on a new arch that can have issues with *** in the future.

Can the people who buy quadfire 5970's afford GF100 probably can and they have the freedom to buy it, it's their money to piss away for that maybe 10% extra performance.

Are the GT210 220 240 great cards no, not for their price, can nvidia sell it yes, will they sell it fcuk they are doing the research they might as well try to pawn a few for some money back on it.


Moral opinions and personal bias have no place in a tech fourm that's an ethics class bull.

Let's just stick to speculation on the GF100 and the facts of the GF100 which by so far isn't looking that great for the gamer.

As for the people who bought 8800 ulta's they probably bought new top of the line cards when the next gen came out, either way if you bought 2 of those you'd probably still be fine rocking most things today you get what you payed for it's not like the people who saw the $800 didn't do at least some homework before burning their money for the sake of 10% extra performance.
 
I hope they fine price their Fermi. So I will be able to get my hands on 58xx at cheaper rates :) . Slurp.........

If they put it up as some of those pre-order price. We can say bye bye.
 
Well then, you'll LOVE this! I have DIRECT EVIDENCE that the GTX 480 has ALREADY LOST one benchmark to the HD 5970 by 18fps! It's the heaven benchmark. It's up on YouTube. It seems that nVidia thought they would be cocky and all they did is open their fly! They were running heaven with a GTX 480. Well, some kid decided to give nVidia the proverbial finger so he played their video in his own video and then ran the exact benchmark and settings with his HD 5970. I watched it closely because they were BOTH running fraps and I did screencaps. At the EXACT same moment (which was the first time you really could clearly see what nVidia's FRAPS rate was) nVidia had a rate of 45 fps and ATi had 63fps!!! As is always the case, I'll provide you the link. I'm AvroBellow on YouTube and you'll see my comment there telling the EXACT time indexes to look. Also, at the windmill scene where the 5970 is pulling over 100fps, I switched over to the nVidia video so I could see it in first person. In this way I saw something else that didn't look good for nVidia. Now granted, nVidia was VERY good at not pointing out framerates because we know very well that they tested this benchmark with the 5970 and that kid's machine with the HD 5970 shows 105fps at 3:34 of his video which is right where the nVidia guy starts benchmarking. I couldn't read nVidia's fps in the kid's video but I sure saw it here. At 1:17 of the nVidia video, which is EXACTLY the same place as 3:34 of the kid's video, it's hard to make out the FRAPS even at 720p full-screened on my 23" monitor but it's DEFINITELY a 2-digit number. Furthermore, the first number is either a 7 or a 9 but the second number is DEFINITELY a 1. So, best-case scenario? ATi by 14fps. Then we go to the dragon and as the two are coming down from the sky, you still can't see the nVidia fps too well but you know it's in the 40s and the ATi is at 65. Suddenly he points out the dragon and nVidia lets you see their fps rate full-on. They have the Radeon beat by 6fps. They let you see the fps rate full on when they know they're ahead and obscure it when they know they're being slaughtered. Gotta hand it to them, when it comes to being sneaky, nobody does it better than nVidia. :sol:

Kid's Video - Watch time index 1:18 to see nVidia's fps just past the house at 45fps and then watch time index 4:29 to see the 5970 doing 63fps at the exact same moment. For the second comparison, watch time index 3:34 of the kid's video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BvvQAQU7Sjg
and them time index 1:17 of nVidia's video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vpdPSZB8A8E

Tell me what you think. I think it's a win for ATi, if you disagree that's cool. Just tell me why you disagree. I could be wrong and I'd like some other ideas. PEACE! :sol:
 
^^ Epic wall of text. And I read it 😀 .

Moral opinions and personal bias have no place in a tech forum that's an ethics class bull.
Click to expand...

Yeah, too bad this is the real world and what you want is nowhere near it. The problem with that statement is that we are people first and tech after. We judge everything based on our feelings and after we try to filter that (well some of us). In my opinion the people that don't have a place in the forums are the people that dismiss logic for the sake of their company winning a stupid fight. Those are the real fanboys and those should not be here.
I hate nVidia's way of doing things, but I don't hate the products of their engineering department. I hate marketing spins and people who fell for those spins. And mostly I hate nVidia's CEO. IMHO, the company would be better off without him. Fermi could have been more if that idiot would have let the engineering to be separated from the marketing.

Just my 2 cents.
 

Lol all this does is say what i have already seen quite a few times in this thread

5850<470<5870<480<5970
again all speculation although frankly with it's consistency seems reliable
470 > 5870
480 >= 5970
in price

meaning bat outta hell without some alliterative motive no one will be buying the GF100 line up for strictly gaming.

Although by performance a quadfire of 480 should be greater then one of 2 5970's and top performance is what matters to some no matter how horrendous the price is.

If the 480 = the 5970 then nvidia would have had a fine enough product that they wouldn't need to be as secretive about although it would still suck for their bottom line

as even if 1 480 = 2 5870's the 5870 becuase it's smaller is yields more even though the 480 would be 50%? larger but be twice as good ATI would probably come out with the better yields putting them ahead on money put in and money made back.

Again the R870 is a disappointment with the hype and speculated performance boost over previous gen it just turned out to be an okay improvement not bad but not mind blowing as i was lead to believe early on. The GF100 again mind blowing start then just horrible show to the end(now) with die size rumors of poor yields and not enough performance the 60% better nvidia touted, it just looks like a shitty year price/performance. Although I have been spoiled by the 260 vs the 4870 strong price/performance raito set last year.

And again morals don't mean *** when you're just talking about a chip, people lie and mis construe facts. Sweat shops are bad right? *** no they give honest very high paying jobs for the area they are in, are the people getting payed as much as a worker in a developed country no, but they are on avg getting payed well above what the avg person in their country would make over a month. morals are perspective i like facts, numbers don't like but people sure do.
 
I agree strangestranger. Going in, we knew that it was unlikely to blow away the 5xxx series. I think the best a person could have realistically hoped for was some large leads in some games, some narrow and some losses. Most if it having to do with specific game titles that have traditional perf gains with one brand over another. Brand loyalty is a form of retardation.
 
I'm goin to build to build a new system and was wondering wether I should wait for the 470gtx

here's the config I'm planning to get

PSU: corsair 850 tx
CPU: i7 930
GPU: hd5850 or maybe 470gtx
RAM: OCZ platinum 12800 6gb ddr3 cl7
case: thermaltake element G
mobo: gigabyte GA ex58 ud3r
CPU cooler: stock cooler
optical drive : LG blu-ray
HDD: samsung spinpoint 500gb

This is my first build so any advice or suggestion is more than welcome.(concerning all my parts not just the GPU)
 


the 470 will likely cost a lot more than a 5850. There is also a high probability of it being in short enough supply that you will have to wait longer than the release. If you are playing at 1080p resolution the 5850 is plenty, and you can get it today.

If you want the computer today, get it today.. You can always find some product that will come out in the next few months. For a new build you have to draw the line somewhere :).

Mind you, if cost is important to you and you can get by for another months it might not be a bad idea to see if the new cards change the landscape of prices a lot.
 
Avro Arrow... you're arguing nVidia is doomed because a DUAL-GPU 5970 can beat a SINGLE-GPU 480................? You sir, are completely ********. If it was the other way around, ATI would have to commit ritual sepuku to make up for such an embarassment. If the 480 comes even CLOSE to the 5970's perf, that will be an amazing achievement in itself.

And before you start saying "Fermi uses 300W like the 5970 so it must fail if it can't equal performance!!!", realize that we have no idea how much power a 480 will use, it could be 300W, it could be 225W with room for OCing, you don't know and neither does anyone else. The 4970 has a wattage ceiling of 400W or something crazy high, but obviously they don't sell their PCI-SIG, ATX standardized cards that way 😛 Fermi might turns out to use 250W and comes close in perf to a 5970 at 294W, would you still say nVidia is doomed at that point? Probably, because as Izzy pointed out already you seem pretty biased on the issue.
 
I don't exactly need the computer today I have a pretty decent pc now with a 9800gt. And by waiting for the 470gtx I meant not only to wait just to buy that card but also because ati's prices might drop. I think I'll just build my pc now without the GPU and use my 9800 and then I'l see what happens when the 470 comes out.
 


I still fail to see what anyone has missed in the past 6 months or may miss in the coming 6 months that matters in terms of DX11?

AvP3 is the only thing that really matters at this point in terms of DX11, and barely even so at that due to its apparent lack of mainstream appeal.

Oh no, DiRT2, I missed DiRT2, whatever will I do with myself!?

Oh yeah, that's right, I wont buy a DX11 card from either company unless it is mind-blowingly better performance, which wont happen 'til the 6000's or 2nd Gen Fermi's anyways.

I feel sorry for people that wasted money on the 5800 cards already for little gain 😛 At least the Fermi cards might finally deliver the performance ATI was originally promising with their 5800 line, tee hee! They will probably be overpriced as all hell knowing nVidia, but it wont matter much to me anyways if I'm not buying either.
 
And I fully agree with "RealityRush" the 480gtx is according to nvidia 30% better than the 5870 which makes it the most powerful single GPU on the market. This will attract High-end system builders however much they cost. And even if these figures are wrong Nvidia will never be doomed as most computer brands use nvidia and always will. Nvidia is a far bigger company than ati and I don't see anything coming up that's going to change that.
 


Agreed. Nevermind all the flaws [Microstutter, game incompatability] that come with dual-GPU systems. Fact is, it is now expected the most powerful single GPU will be the 480.

If you want to compare the 480 to a 5890, then lets make it fair:
Test 1: 480 v 5890 (Single card test)
Test 2: 2x 480 v 5890 (Dual GPU test)
Test 3: 2x 480 v 2x 5870 (Dual card test)

The 5890 is expected to win test 1, but at this point, if you compare against the same number of GPU's, the expectation is the 480 will win. My question: Will 2x 470's beat a 5890? I think thats where the biggest price war is going to be over...

EDIT

BTW, does anyone find it Ironic we're going over the 9800GX2 debate AGAIN? Didn't we go over this two years ago, and didn't the ATI guys argue that comparing a 3870 against a 9800GX2 was unfair because of the difference in the number of GPU's? So please, stop it. Compare 2x 480's against 2x 5870's and a 5890, and we'll see which setup holds the real Dual-GPU performance crown.
 


I just don't understand why it matters int eh slightest if a card is 2, 8, 26, or 48 GPU cores...

If I can get a product that gives me performance I want for the price I want it seems like a winner.

Dual GPU setups have their problems, for sure... but we have two totally different strategies here... ATI is not trying to produce a huge powerful GPU, they are content with the smallish GPU, and a doubling up for the high end card.

I'd surely rather have a single GPU over a double GPU given identical performance, power, and price. That would likely be the case even without the possible issues crossfire/sli can bring... but that does not change the fact that ATI is creating the dual card to compete with a large GPU card.


We have to move past what has always been a flawed premise... that the way the task is done matters in the slightest. ATI and Nvidia do not compete chip to chip.. they compete card to card, price to price, final priduct to final product.

It means absolutely nothing if company A has a faster core than company B if in the end both give you good performance for the dollar. It means equally as nothing to a power user if the final performance they want can be grabbed by a single or many GPUs if the price is equivalent.

It is all well and good that Crossfire/SLI have a stigma right now, they have clear issues. But those issues will be solved eventually. We are going to see in the next couple of generations (if the strategies of the companies stays the same) multi GPU working almost identical to the end user as a single GPU. When this happens how can one logically criticize a company for purposely designing a smaller unit if the end result is the same?

It would be like deriding my bathroom for using small tiles instead of one large slab of slate. Do you really feel that the slate is better just on the premise that it is has a larger unit size? In the end it still keeps the water out of my walls.
 
lol at the nvidiots claiming fastest single gpu. it probably wont even beat the non reference 5870's in anything except the heaven benchmark.
 


Trolling much? Based on what little we've seen, it looks like a 470 almost matches up against a 5870 [and therefor, probably beats a 5850], so its reasonable that a 480 will beat the 5870 by a fairly significant margin (10% or so].

And again, I want to see 2x 480's against 2x 5870's against a 5890; then we'll know who wins performance wise when everything else is equal across the board. But as far as single GPU goes, it looks like NVIDIA won the battle in the end. We'll know for sure in a few weeks.
 
haha Thats what I expected,Lol at people who believed a 480 will be faster than a 5970 😀 . Fermi Is finally here! Is it worth it? Let see:
480 vs 5870

- 480 is in the 5970 Price range haha
- 480 is 60% more expensive. ~599$(Expected) Vs ~379$
- 480 offer same performance in non tessellated games, tessellation is not mature yet so we cant compare its performance. Tessellated games have only about 20% of its graphics tessellated. We wont see fully tessellated games in the near future.
- 5970 still wins with tessellation while being same price, better non tess. performance.
- 480 doubles the 5870 heat.
- 480 has no overclocking headroom(Expected because nVidia couldnt reach higher speeds). Most 5870 and 5850 easily reach 1Ghz on air and 1300x4= 5.2Ghz on Ram.
- 480 is using double the 5870 Watts to achieve similar performance in general. ~300w Vs ~160w
- The 5850 will stay the best p/$
- 5970 850/1250 Default with 4Gb is around the corner.
- Ati can easly bring its prices down while nVidia cant.

nVidia should sell their top card for 499$ to be able to sell it. 🙁

nFail dont exaggerate, we can also say a non reference 480 in the Near* future lol
 
nVidia won the battle? nVidia built a huge chip that will never be available for the general public. its a suicide shot halo product that barely exists in numbers more than 10,000.

all it does is make nVidiots feel better about buying their outmatched products. the 470 loses to the 5870, the 480 loses to the 5970 so nVidiots try to justify the loss by claiming fastest single gpu.

here is the real deal - if the 480 is the 300w as is being claimed, that means that ati could add another 5770 to the power of the 5870. that is how far behind nVidia are now. crappy drivers killing cards, losing horribly to ati its embarrassing.
 
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