Google Threatens to Withdraw From China

[gmcboot]

[citation][nom]invlem[/nom] The hacking exposes serious security risks for google, gmail is gmail regardless of which country its subscribers are based. If they start hacking chinese gmail accounts whats stopping them from hacking into non-chinese gmail accounts. In this respect I can totally understand Google's stance and quite frankly the security of the rest of their gmail accounts worldwide might be worth a billion dollars to them.[/citation]

Finally someone see this for what it is. They are basically hacking into their system, their network. That's not as easy as tv and Hollywood would like you to believe. That means they possible have access to everyones email and depending on how deep they may have intruded into googles systems, it could mean they have access to all types of information from other google services. This has not only corporate intrest at risk but national security interest at risk for damn near every country on the planet. All it takes is a few people in the right or wrong place in government to discuss things on their gmail accounts they shouldn't... or even information that may give the Chinese government personal leverage on people.

Google should with draw as should Microsoft and Yahoo. Perhaps maybe the firewall China has created inside their country should have a mirror on the outside keeping them separate from the rest of the world.

Sadly we are all to ready to sell freedom and everything else down the river for another $$.

 

[Guest]

You're missing the point. What I was trying to express is that it's not just the Americans, it's the human nature to look after themselves before they look out for others, and in your argument you've proven my point. Why should the last meal on earth belong to you and to your decision but not the others?

I'm not an American and I'm not defending for Americans... all I was saying is that it's really sad to see the world became what it is now.

Now give me that damn cent!!

(I hope that works...)

How is it sad to see the world come to what you believe is its true nature? Humans are evolved into working better as a group, a lot of people would risk their lives for the sake of others. Why? Because they couldn't live with themsevles otherwise.

Human nature (as in its basic primitive form) is to survive. But human nature is not to survive only as an individual. A more intelligent human may, for example, draw the conclusion that his group will be better off without him and therefor make sure to commit suicide. A stupid person may, on the other hand, choose to commit suicide because of delusions that his death would be better for everyone (often caused by depression).

 

[SAL-e]

[citation][nom]CChick[/nom]Before you buy all American/Made in USA, how about a STFU ?Yeah you, please just STFU ?[/citation]
LOL. I don't buy any labels. And I will keep talking. If you don't like it stop listening!

[citation][nom]asdf634[/nom]You're missing the point. What I was trying to express is that it's not just the Americans, it's the human nature to look after themselves before they look out for others, and in your argument you've proven my point. Why should the last meal on earth belong to you and to your decision but not the others?I'm not an American and I'm not defending for Americans... all I was saying is that it's really sad to see the world became what it is now.Now give me that damn cent!![/citation]
You man almost earn your cent!!!
The private property is way of peaceful management over scarce resources. The communists tried other methods and failed. Until better method is invented private property is what we have. I am only 1/2 American. The only reason I refer about it because only USA has official policy based on human rights. And I wanted to say fix your own country before you go around and fix the world.

 

[teknic111]

May i remind you that chinas has stopped being communist loooooooooooong time ago?I mean, McDonald's,Apple, Microsoft, Google etc all have offices there(and make lots of $$). What kind of communism dictates that the means of production are controlled by individuals?Better change the phrase to"Chinese capitalists are sick puppies! they wanna control every aspect of our life! GRRR!"

The last time I checked (2min ago)...China is a socialist republic ruled by the Communist Party of China under a single-party system.

 

[necronic]

I think they are quite serious. Google was the only search company that has owned up to some of its data mining and sharing practices that all the other companies do. There was no incentive for them to own up other than just doing the right thing. Google has time and time again shown that it is a fairly responsible company.

Also, 1 billion dollars is a lot of money, but its not like its a money faucet. Google is continuously making investments to see that billion, and the actual profits (as opposed to revenue, which is listed) may be less. In an unstable region, which with regards to the internet China is, things could change really rapidly and that revenue stream could completely dry up, while the expenses would still be there.

Its hard, if not impossible, to make long term business models in a country like that. Could be its just not worth the long term risk. So, even from a purely business standpoint, moving out of China may be a good idea. It reminds me of that opening scene from There Will Be Blood where the dude walks away from the well that he assuredly would make money off of, because he would have to deal with such an unstable group.

 

[wildwell]

I would love to see Google pull out of China. It would set an example, and we might start to see other companies follow the lead.

Only a small fraction of China's people are wired to the internet now, but more and more Chinese are eventually going to demand this access to the rest of the world. If the global communication leaders leave China out of touch, it might finally force the "Great Firewall" down (or at least reduce its effectiveness).

 

[crom]

When will being maliciously hacked in order to gain sensitive and/or top secret information become an act of war again? The US Government has said China has hacked and downloaded terabytes of information from every branch of government over the past couple years. Why are we not sanctioning/attacking them?

 

[captaincharisma]

[citation][nom]MindfieIds[/nom]Communists are sick puppies! they wanna control every aspect your life! GRRR![/citation]

the USA is heading that way too. a few move F up's by there government letting terrorists slip past them and electing Sarah Palin as president in 2012 should get them there.

 

[twu]

Hacking from an external network is very very difficult. Specially for big company. It's a very complex network and firewalls.

The only reason I can think of:
Google servers are hosting inside China, also manage by the people live in China. It's easy to fence off hacker from outside, more difficult to fence off a traders who work inside the company as a double agent.

Google can't do anything even Google find the person who stole the information. China may just turn around and let the person go free as a hero to them.

 

[JohnnyLucky]

Google's allegation that the Chinese government may have hacked into Google, email accounts, and other web sites.

This is nothing new. We had similar news reports last year suggesting that the Chinese government may have hacked their way into US Government files and public utility files.

 

[Raishi]

[citation][nom]rant[/nom]Good for Google, Now we can ask Google to do the same in this country . I mean really do u call Google a "true" search engine ? "not". It "Google" censors every search all in the name of speed. How you mite ask, they have their own directory of listings that use from previous search's. For example, i type Google.com,(Google) see's my IP originating from, in my case Canada, it Google brings me to Google.ca. because it believes that is what i want "NOT" ,oh it then sees i come from french part of Canada and then i thinks i want french content too.That is censorship, Back in the mid 90's a search engine by the name of NorthernLights.com would give me thousands of hits from every country in the world as long as that word was part of the meta tag of the web site. It would then subdivide it into categories like government, educational, entertainment , etc. It gave me the control over all my search's so that i could look at thousands of search's and narrow it down to what i needed. Sadly that engine was bought and made privateso that u had to pay for every search. Just so food for thought.Google u are a bunch of Hippocrates.[/citation]

Maybe you need to look up the definition of censorship. Here's a start: Google making its best effort to provide the most appropriate content for a viewer from a certain country? Not censorship.

 

[yang]

the last sentence contradicts with this whole article. No company is going to turn away from 1 billion dollars

 

[Guest]

I'm sure US hack into people's mail accounts all the time in the name of 'terrorist' but no one complains. And what about Guantanamo ? Trouth is those 'peace' activists are not as peaceful as you think because they incite riots and have contacts with outside government organisations.

 

[wildwell]

[citation][nom]crom[/nom]When will being maliciously hacked in order to gain sensitive and/or top secret information become an act of war again? The US Government has said China has hacked and downloaded terabytes of information from every branch of government over the past couple years. Why are we not sanctioning/attacking them?[/citation]
I agree with you completely, but you first have to prove that the Chinese government is actively hacking instead of independent groups within China. Then, how do you sanction or attack your primary trade partner? A trade partner that holds such a large portion of your national debt at that? They could 'counter attack' by just selling back their federal bonds. The US dollar would inflate immediately and the economy would drop back into a tail spin!

 

[chunkymonster]

Well considering I am chinese, and my entire family lives in China I think I know what I'm talking about.

The government here makes a big deal about how the world invests in China, and how china is growing in important. So yes, it's a big deal if google leaves. It'll hurt the image of the government and it's grand vision of China becoming more and more critical to the world.
At the same time, the people in china in no way consider the censorship to be fair. The invasion of privacy has nothing to do with cultural differences, it's a fundamental human right issue.

Also, the whole mistresses thing is a huge issue, and very hypocritical of the government officials. Several of my uncles are going through very difficult time with their wives as they're found out about their mistresses.

Based on your opinions it is obvious why, I assume, you came to America; or perhaps you are enjoying Tom's forums as a result of the Chinese government opening the internet. Regardless, it is well known that the Chinese government is invasive and while the government may want to manage the world's perception, it will not change the basic ideology and structure of the government itself.

American government and the american people make a big deal of investments in China because of the amount of money involved and the sheer manufacturing and production capacity of China. American investment in China is a form of self-preservation especially given that China holds a large part of America's debt.

While I agree that invasion of privacy is a human rights issue, it is also still a cultural issue in that it is known that the Chinese government is invasive and controlling. So while the people of China may believe censorship to be unfair, given the amount of government control, it is also part of the Chinese culture.

Hypocrisy from government officials, regardless of the country, whether about having a mistress or embezzling money, should be of no surprise to anyone. And, it doesn't matter what country you are from, most wives take offense at their husbands having a mistress.

Aside from whatever perception the Chinese government wants the world to see, I still say that Google will be the big loser if they pull operations out of China.

 

[rooket]

[citation][nom]MindfieIds[/nom]Communists are sick puppies! they wanna control every aspect your life! GRRR![/citation]

yeah but look at the atrocities that GB committed against the Chinese empire up through the 1800s. Let the Chinese run their own country. I think Westerners have done enough harm already.

 

[Guest]

Google leaving? Good Riddance for China.

 

[JD13]

And we still do business with these Goons.....
A worldwide boycott of China would put them in the poor house pretty quickly!

 

[twu]

[citation][nom]banthracis[/nom]Google actively helps the government achieve this at the moment. As for marriage, unlike the west, (on the topic of cultural differences here), marriage is highly regarded in China and divorces are very rare and very much frowned upon. So, yes in China and in the Chinese culture it's a HUGE deal to get a divorce. I consider it a positive over the west where you have people marrying and divorcing on the same day.[/citation]

It's call "Brain Wash", you can ask chinese people who lives outside China or me, dude... who has all the money, the country not the people. That is how China, the country can loan 1T to the U.S.

It's all depend in which part of China and which generation.
Divorce and having a mistress=same crap. People divorce wants to start over again, just being decisive; People who can't divorce and having a mistress because those stupid none sense culture that makes others suffer or he/she can't decide what they want to do in life, which end up unhappy like your uncles in China.
I agree with you in the older generation with little education. For the new generation... forget it. All living in "Western Style babe..".

 

[doc70]

[citation][nom]raishi[/nom]"Went along without a peep"? Haven't been paying much attention, have you? They've been outspoken opponents of China's censorship practices for years.[/citation]
Get over it, buddy. Google is threatening to stop the censorship for the Chinese govt. In other words, "I - Google - will stop sucking your ball$ after so many years of doing it".
And you still don't have a clue about the reason they're doing it now. At least Yahoo took more radical steps a while ago while Google's mouth was full.
Looks like you haven't been paying attention, my friend.

 

[banthracis]

[citation][nom]chunkymonster[/nom]Based on your opinions it is obvious why, I assume, you came to America; or perhaps you are enjoying Tom's forums as a result of the Chinese government opening the internet. Regardless, it is well known that the Chinese government is invasive and while the government may want to manage the world's perception, it will not change the basic ideology and structure of the government itself. American government and the american people make a big deal of investments in China because of the amount of money involved and the sheer manufacturing and production capacity of China. American investment in China is a form of self-preservation especially given that China holds a large part of America's debt. While I agree that invasion of privacy is a human rights issue, it is also still a cultural issue in that it is known that the Chinese government is invasive and controlling. So while the people of China may believe censorship to be unfair, given the amount of government control, it is also part of the Chinese culture.Hypocrisy from government officials, regardless of the country, whether about having a mistress or embezzling money, should be of no surprise to anyone. And, it doesn't matter what country you are from, most wives take offense at their husbands having a mistress. Aside from whatever perception the Chinese government wants the world to see, I still say that Google will be the big loser if they pull operations out of China.[/citation]

I was referring to the image of the Chinese Government presented to the chinese people. While they might not report google deciding to pull out, the sudden loss of a major search portal WOULD get people asking questions, which is never a good thing in the governments mind.

Obviously the world knows about how bad the Chinese government is, MY point is that the Chinese people are kept in the dark, and that IF google pulls out it leaves awkward questions for the government to answer. This in turn hurts the governments credibility with it's people.

 

[brisingamen]

The whole western world should bring China down for good.

First: Kill the WTO
Second: Ban Chinese exports to the western world
Third: Watch them go bankrupt, starve and then go to civil war!

im with you on this i mean, the chinese government needs to be overthrown, better by its own people than troops invading.

 

[torque79]

I don't understand why nobody is talking about internet censorship in other countries besides China. They are by no means the only one. Someone mentioned Australia has censored internet (I did not know that, thanks for telling us!), but even Canada does as well! There are very numerous websites that are inaccessible in Canada hosted in the US and Britain. For example, IPTV television services such as hulu either block canadian IP's from access altogether, or have a seperate product for Canadian audiences offering different and far reduced service. Though we are not censored from pornography or political websites like China, we ARE censored from ENTERTAINMENT.

Am I the only one who is getting more and more angry every year that my entertainment is government controlled?? Why is censorship so extreme for television and movies? It just means there is less competition in our market and encourages monopolistic behavior. Canadian content rules mean I don't get to choose what to watch on TV?? Doesnt that sound stupid to anyone else??

By the way, in the discussion about low divorce rates in China, I have to agree with the poster who pointed out that obviously having mistresses is a byproduct of divorce being culturally unacceptable. The other poster's own uncles and mentioned politicians are great examples. People are not getting divorces when they should, so they're finding other ways to try and be happy.

 

[twu]

[citation][nom]TommySch[/nom]The whole western world should bring China down for good. First: Kill the WTOSecond: Ban Chinese exports to the western worldThird: Watch them go bankrupt, starve and then go to civil war![/citation]

It's a free trade, just be a smarter trader. Lock yourself up is not doing you any good. Open your heart

 

[twu]

[citation][nom]wudiqiang[/nom]中华人民共和国万岁[/citation]

WTF is this, Mao die long time ago.
Because of you and types of you locked up China for the longest time.
Shut The F*** Up.