Hacker: Windows More Secure Than Mac OS X

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One key point is that Snow Leopard still doesn't have ASLR, or address space layout randomization, which randomly arranges the position of key data making it harder for hackers to target for exploits.

Miller said to TechWorld that Apple didn't change the ASLR from 10.5 to 10.6: "Apple didn't change anything. It's the exact same ASLR as in Leopard, which means it's not very good."
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How about some proof reading. First you say it doesn't have ASLR, then quote Miller saying it "has the exact same ASLR as in Leopard". Snow Leopard has ASLR, it's just not the best implementation of ASLR.

[citation][nom]JonathanDeane[/nom]I wonder why people think ASLR is unimportant? To me it seems like just one more layer of security.... I like extra layers when it comes to security and if it does not impose any significant performance loss then why not? To argue against extra security is crazy on any platform.[/citation]It is good as an extra layer, and Mac OS X has it, just not a really good implementation of ASLR. No one I've seen is arguing against ASLR, only pointing out that ASLR isn't really a security feature. It's an obfuscation feature intended to make it more difficult to successfully develop certain types of exploits if/when you do find a security hole.

[citation][nom]otacon72[/nom]It's not that difficult to understand if you really think about it. What does every computer system that has anything important on it run? Some version of Windows. You don't see the CIA's servers running Mac OS. Just using that as a broad example. Do you see your local bank running Mac OS? Police department? and so on and so on. The reason why Mac OS is so "secure" is because it doesn't run on any computer system people want to see/steal data from. If the Pentagon switched to Mac OS...how lon do you think it would take before "hackers" had penetrated it? I use "" because there are very few true hackers left out there.[/citation]Actually, the CIA, NSA, NASA, Pentagon/DoD, and many other branches of government do use Macs. Macs are not the only platform they use, nor even the dominant one, but they do use them, even in some environments that require high security. You might want to do some research before posting baseless rants.
 
"Regardless of which side you're on (though as a true computing enthusiast, you shouldn't be taking sides)"
ChaosGS:

There are more then plenty apple enthusiast extending the lives of their machines for over 20 years in some cases.
Some soldered and their mac classic in to a machine running a G3 a whopping 128 meg RAM and a screen resolution of 800x600.
You can say whatever you want about apple users but they and other users of "alternative" systems are creative in keeping their machines alive like "we" used to do with our Amiga's.
Computer mod's are more common but hardly ever require the use of a soldering iron and most of the time there are stacks of step by step guides.
This gives the computer enthusiast modding apple computers a big plus in my humble opinion.

For the record i bought a fancy G3 800Mhz CPU for my 500Mhz Snowy I-mac and even though it took me 2 days and a new soldering iron it finally sticks and it runs like never before.

The same love that pushing me to extend the live of that i-mac makes me go crazy on the firmware of my older PC's and on more exotic hardware for my UltraSPARC and SGI system.
In other words i am a computer enthusiast with passion for hardware not restricted to brand platform or structure (though i love CELL for sure).

As for those new intel macs ... i dont have a clue why people buy them to me apple was only a better system because i loved PPC and open-firmware now thats gone i lost interest but that doesnt mean in any way that its not a nice platform to customise (though they are expensive to use as a base system for it).

Last but not least your making a big mistake by thinking the goal of a mod should be building a gaming machine.
Than again your reading skills proof to be so terrible that i cant really blame you. (computer enthusiast not mac enthusiast).
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I find it pretty annoying that MAC has yet to make the double button feature on their mouse like every other system...

Lacking in the user friendly basics just pisses me off. Mostly because it makes everything take twice as much time to do!
 
Hahaha this is just big talk to get to the headlines. Try browsing adult sites with a PC and see how fast it gets pummeled before even seeing something interesting.
 
[citation][nom]ktgurr[/nom]I find it pretty annoying that MAC has yet to make the double button feature on their mouse like every other system... Lacking in the user friendly basics just pisses me off. Mostly because it makes everything take twice as much time to do![/citation]Mac OS X has had support for 2 (or more) button mice for at least 7 years, and every Mac shipped with an Apple mouse has been the "Mighty Mouse", which supports "left click" and "right click", even though it only has one actual button (it's a touch sensitive surface, so it can detect which side the finger is on using a single button).
 
Wow... Mac developer admits Windows is more secure than mac...UN IPCC climate expert admits their climate models were wrong (we are getting cooler)... whats next?..
Obama admitting he is a socialist?
 
[citation][nom]tacoslave[/nom]whatever apples marketing team will sell it as "hey mac"" hey pc"" hey mac i heard you arent as hard to get into as i am"" hey pc dont you know? boys like loose girls "[/citation]

hey now. I like em tight, lol.
 
Um, Lol is all I have to say to that. Here's a hint, do research and learn what socialism actually is.
Click to expand...

U r right.. I should clarify for you…
“Socialist” - belief in promotion of tax-funded welfare programs and regulation of markets and distribution of wealth based on minority or social status… as in Democratic Socialist I.E. Obama and most politicians in general.
BAM!
 
[citation][nom]cptnjarhead[/nom]U r right.. I should clarify for you…“Socialist” - belief in promotion of tax-funded welfare programs and regulation of markets and distribution of wealth based on minority or social status… as in Democratic Socialist I.E. Obama and most politicians in general.BAM![/citation]

Actually, you haven't any research at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Socialism and Capitalism both work, but they also both fail, in a small society both systems work perfectly, but the larger the society that the system has to support the harder it becomes to maintain order. The USSR collapsed in on itself trying to hold up such a large population whilst the country was bankrupt, whilst the US has so much money concentrated into wealthy private individuals that I has become blind to the fact that the health system doesn't work. The only reason China manages to hold onto Socialism and not collapse is the totalitarian grip it has on the population, whereas in the West we have the illusion of freedom and the masses are controlled by giving them 500 cable TV channels, cheeseburgers and shut the fuck up.

Anyway back to the topic. This is a pointless arguement, you could wheel out a thousand well known Mac security gurus, until Steve Jobs himself announces live on the 6 o'clock news that Windows is better than Mac, the zealots will pick holes in everything that is said on the subject. And even if he did there would still be a few die-hard douche-bags that would think Ballmer paid him off or got a lookalike or cloned him or some other reality-defying bullshit that they spoonfeed themselves on a daily basis.

Wake up. Smell the coffee. Windows won nearly 20 years ago and the only reason you think you are back in the game is because the money that Bill Gates invested in Apple when he bought 10% of the stock out of pity.
 
[citation][nom]back_by_demand[/nom]Wake up. Smell the coffee. Windows won nearly 20 years ago and the only reason you think you are back in the game is because the money that Bill Gates invested in Apple when he bought 10% of the stock out of pity.[/citation]Guess again. MS didn't buy 10% of Apple, they "invested" $150M in Apple, which was nowhere near 10%, wasn't even 5%. Apple didn't need the money, they had $1.2B in cash at the time.
CNet report

I quoted "investment" because it's widely speculated that it was more of e "payoff" to settle a legal battle between the two. The settlement of legal issues is noted on MS's announcement of the deal.
MS announcement

Apple's 2003 SEC report indicated that MS had in fact converted the preferred (non-voting) shares to common shares. MS sold the common shares and does not directly own any Apple stock (they do own less than .005% through an investment in a fund).
 
Tom's at it again. This is really funny stuff!! I write software for OSX (an it's variants) and Windows and it's variants -- the difference that was not mentioned at all is that ASLR is not significant at all (and hence why it got NO attention from Apple, but ASLR does slow one's system down be it Windows or Mac OSX). Because if you've gained access then ASLR has little or no meaning -- it's like moving bedrooms around in a house, you're still IN THE HOUSE.

DEP is helpful, but that is again, only if your crashing a service to gain elevated privileges -- under OSX you don't gain elevated privileges from crashing services, unlike Windows where you can (but not always) gain elevated priveleges when you crash a Windows service (pending what account it's running under).

This isn't the only article out the window (so to speak) at Tom's, it's full of one sided partial truths without any reality check or scope.

And finally, Charlie Miller DOES NOT WORK FOR APPLE, geeez people, can you atleast do some of your own fact finding before believe anything Tom's says. Charlie Miller works for Independent Security Evaluators - he's the same guy that exposed the SMS hack (which affect more than just Apple's iPhones but many other brands of phones also).

This guy lives to make a name for himself, that's his profession, he doesn't have anything to do with Apple.

Please people look up the facts before you expose your fanboyism to all things Windows. Tom's editors, I'd expect nothing less -- more partial information to paint a biased picture.

 
When was the last time someone hacked the OS of your system?
SQL injections do not count, nor do incorrect web permissions.

Especially if you are on something like a laptop, the security on just about any operating system is enough to stop anyone who would possibly target YOU.

(Sponsored, strangely, by an advocate of not accessibility over security [for example is your software is shitty in usability it may be secure but inaccessible to people who can't figure it out, or take longer than they have time for to figure it out])
 
"I'm a Mac."

"And I'm a PC."

"People love Macs for the security while PC isn't......"

(Miller): "LIES!!! Windows is more secure."

Not sure I see that happeneing. or the second he steps out Mac will elbow him in the face.....
 
[citation][nom]V8VENOM[/nom]Tom's at it again. This is really funny stuff!! I write software for OSX (an it's variants) and Windows and it's variants -- the difference that was not mentioned at all is that ASLR is not significant at all (and hence why it got NO attention from Apple, but ASLR does slow one's system down be it Windows or Mac OSX). Because if you've gained access then ASLR has little or no meaning -- it's like moving bedrooms around in a house, you're still IN THE HOUSE. DEP is helpful, but that is again, only if your crashing a service to gain elevated privileges -- under OSX you don't gain elevated privileges from crashing services, unlike Windows where you can (but not always) gain elevated priveleges when you crash a Windows service (pending what account it's running under).This isn't the only article out the window (so to speak) at Tom's, it's full of one sided partial truths without any reality check or scope.And finally, Charlie Miller DOES NOT WORK FOR APPLE, geeez people, can you atleast do some of your own fact finding before believe anything Tom's says. Charlie Miller works for Independent Security Evaluators - he's the same guy that exposed the SMS hack (which affect more than just Apple's iPhones but many other brands of phones also).This guy lives to make a name for himself, that's his profession, he doesn't have anything to do with Apple.Please people look up the facts before you expose your fanboyism to all things Windows. Tom's editors, I'd expect nothing less -- more partial information to paint a biased picture.[/citation]

Toms at it again? If I worked for Toms I would take exception to this post. Marcus Yam prefaces the article by saying as a true computing enthusiast, you shouldn't be taking sides. He then goes on to say that this article is the opinion of Charlie Miller, not his opinion, Marcus is just reporting it. He goes on to say who Charlie Miller is, a Mac security guru, NOT an Apple employee.

Let's put this in perspective, it's the equivalent of abusing Dan Rather for reporting the news. So all step back, take a deep breath and if you find you still need to abuse someone, why don't you abuse Charlie Miller, not the Tom's team for reporting what he said, ok?
 

+999999
 
"yeah youd figure working for a technology sight they would know how to use a simply technology called spell check and use a tried and true method called PROOF READING."

Yeah, YOU'D figure working for a technology SITE, they would know how to use a simple technology called spell check, and use a tried and true method called proof reading.
 
Actually, you haven't any research at all.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Socialism
Click to expand...

Hey when you get done drinking that cool-aid... you might wake up and smell the proverbial coffee!
But i seriously doubt it.
And by they way.. my description of Democratic socialism is correct.
despite your wiki-piki-sticky.
Put down the cool-aid... its gone bad.
-
"D_Kuhn"
your analogy is reasonable... however don't forget the human desire to of free will... which is not permitted in a socialistic society.
"Capitalism" and the free market cannot fail based on the fundamentals that govern them. Now if you put greed into that equation then you can have catastrophic results... but the free market will self regulate this over time. Regulation only hinders the Capitalistic free market principals.
now we are way way off topic.. funny.
What were we talking about? :)

 
Bah... the topic is a horse that's been dead for a LONG time.

The idea of Free Will is another way of explaining the fact that we're not collectivist... so while I didn't spell it out as such I think free will is central to why collectivist "nirvana's" are pure self delusion on the part of people who are too disconnected from Darwin to understand that it's not a viable alternative for humanity.

I have to disagree that free markets are self regulating... I see them more as an inherently unstable system. As one entity gains more and more power, they gain more and more ability to exercise that power to gain more power. IMO - Monopoly is the logical conclusion of a truly free markets... which means that "Free" markets are really only free when (counterintuitively) some controls are placed on the abuse of the power that is gained from economies of scale... otherwise the big guy squashes everyone else and destroys the "freedom" that enabled him to get big in the first place.
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Greed Greed Greed.. that is the instability in the free market.
The purity of the free market is supply and demand.. without government intervention.. the government is only in place to protect from fraud or coercion. To bad we don't have anything other than freedom of speech to protect us from the Big G.
Despite the phenomenon of monopolies.. they are not protected from competition laws... so they rely solely on customer satisfaction and their market share is not guaranteed.
It's simple.
 
Monopolies have an inherent drive to create barriers to entry
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Agreed.. but even the mighty microsoft must deliver a product that meets customer satisfaction along with competition and that is the purity of the free market
Unlike GM .. Microsoft must compete to survive while GM can continue to create un-satisfactory products without consequence...because of Government intervention.
Define monopoly?
- http://www.duke.edu/~kem32/cps1/digitalethics/monopoly.html
good read if you have time.

Great discussion.. way off topic.. but much more fun.




The Government oversight is the failure of the free market.. not the justice,fairness and equality they claim to uphold.
 
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