Question HELP! Custom Water Cooling Setup!

[JaSoN_cRuZe]

I wish to buy a custom water cooling setup for my upcoming Ryzen build!

I have an Antec P8 case and wish to buy the following items from Aliexpress for my setup, I intend to do only for CPU for now and wish to upgrade to a GPU block down the road.

360 Copper RAD!!

Pump+Reservoir!! -Suggest reservoir size(140 or 190 or 240)??

CPU Block!!

Please suggest me some good fittings and tubing for the above items, This is my first time going for a custom loop.

Please use this link for suggesting compatible fittings and also any other alternatives for the above mentioned items are welcome.

I'm living in India so the shipping is usually very high, so i had selected the above because of the price and free shipping.

Any suggestion or recommendation is highly welcome. Thanks

 

[JaSoN_cRuZe]

Or something similar, yes.

I'll put it this way. When you need to put oil in the car, you use automotive grade oil of the correct weight for the engine. 10w30 or 5w20 etc.

You really do not want to add Vegetable oil, based on the assumption that oil is just oil, all the same right?

So what's in that biocide? Is it acid based or alkaline? Formulated for copper? Rubber corrosive? How effective is it, how long does it last, what concentration does it need, will using too much or too little affect anything?

EK, AlphaCool, Corsair, Thermaltake or any of the other pc specialist cooling liquids have already tested that, answered all that and more.

Just do not use pastels or chalk based, stick with the clears/translucents.

This is the only one available in my region no other option, is this good enough? I think it is transparent coolant but still dyed green is this OK?

 

[rubix_1011]

Yes, you would want something similar to that.

I still find it fascinating that you can find all sorts of parts and components for watercooling, but it is very difficult to find actual coolants to use.

 

[Karadjgne]

You mean like a previous poster with that Lian-Li dynamic pre-cut hard pipe liquid loop that did not come with coolant.....

But the other 3 models with soft tube diy did. And that Op had same issues getting coolant.

 

[rubix_1011]

Yeah, I really struggle to understand some of these international seller/websites...it would seem they know just enough to be dangerous, but not enough to really know what they're doing. They are doing a major disservice to the watercooling industry with their approach.

Man, looking at some of the stuff they offer, it looks like 'some guy' got a catalog of stuff they can resell, didn't know what it really was, picked a bunch of very random parts to re-sell....and that's how it ended up hit-or-miss components being listed.

I compare the watercooling selection to that on Performance-PCs.com and feel bad about the international marketplace, including those that will ship but have huge VAT fees and tax.

 

[digitalgriffin]

My mistake on the reservoir, sorry about that. Size of reservoir has no bearing on cooling capability of the loop, so choose the size you want.

G1/4 is the fitting thread size which is different than the fitting/tubing size.

1070Ti block (hybrid) from Alphacool
https://www.performance-pcs.com/water-cooling/water-blocks/water-blocks-vga.html?vga_series=2828

Maybe it is, and if so, that's good news. You might just want to verify either by research or email to see. I'm not saying that if it isn't a DDC, it is bad, it just seems strange that they don't mention it being a DDC since that would be the primary selling point if it were.

I agree. A DDC pump @ that price that is incredibly cheap...too cheap. And my mom taught me if something looks to good to be true...

If you were going to cool 1 device a D5 pump would do the job
If you were going to cool 2 devices at a time, use 2 separate loops, or a distribution block with a DDC pump.

The most sensitive part of your system, and also the hottest is the GPU, not the CPU. Boost clocks are often based on how hot the GPU is. And at higher resolutions, the GPU is often the bottleneck.

That said, I like two separate loops when cooling two system components. Running your loops in serial from graphics card to CPU means your CPU is getting heated waste water from the GPU. Even if you do a distribution block with DDC, you will need two radiators anyway (even with a 360mm rad)

The best way to set the two radiators up is in parallel circuits, not serial. It reduces the backflow pressure by cutting the flow rate in each radiator in half. This increases overall flow rate. So parallel usually trumps serial for radiator setup.

However, with some rare circumstances it is preferable to run in serial for radiators. This increases the tubes per circuit, and flow rate, but increases back head pressure. In some rare configurations serial does do better due to limited thermal conductivity of the air/radiator interface. (In other words, the air-radiator interface can take heat away slower than the coolant-radiator interface can supply it. In this case a faster flow rate would be preferable.)

I deal with coil ratings on a daily basis.

 

[digitalgriffin]

Yes, you would want something similar to that.

I still find it fascinating that you can find all sorts of parts and components for watercooling, but it is very difficult to find actual coolants to use.

Why is coolant hard?

 

[rubix_1011]

Based on availability for the OP in this thread, it is either expensive (by comparison) or difficult to purchase/obtain in his region of the world by being in limited availability of most online hardware sites that ironically, sell watercooling parts, but not coolant for them.

 

[Karadjgne]

It'd be like buying a car, and the salesman tell you that you need to purchase the tires seperately, and although they usually run $100 a tire, with VAT and import fees, they'll come out to $600 each. Still want the car?

 

[JaSoN_cRuZe]

I agree. A DDC pump @ that price that is incredibly cheap...too cheap. And my mom taught me if something looks to good to be true...

I can find more cheaper options, this seems to be the high end and also with many good customer reviews. I heard Barrow/Bykski are nice in this department, what other choice do i have.

That said, I like two separate loops when cooling two system components. Running your loops in serial from graphics card to CPU means your CPU is getting heated waste water from the GPU. Even if you do a distribution block with DDC, you will need two radiators anyway (even with a 360mm rad)

So instead of a single 360, i should opt for a dual rad setup and do the flow like,
Pump-->GPU-->Rad-->CPU-->Rad-->Pump.

Yeah the problem is with the RAM clearance in my case, it supports RAD of 360 front, 280 top and 120 Rear but because of the ATX mobo and RAM placements i cannot mount any radiators on top which leaves me with only a 120 RAD which can be mounted on the REAR of my case.
Will a 120 RAD be OK(120-->CPU-->360)??

Reference : Custom loop with Antec P8

Will probably go for a mATX board in the future, for this thing until then I'm sorry CPU.

Why is coolant hard?

Yes the coolant part is very hard to get by, There are no options, no variety and the best part is there are no DIY liquid cooling options provided in my country, the only thing which is available are overpriced Thermaltake Water Cooling Kits if i wish to buy locally. The only thing available other than kits are Thermaltake T1000 green color strictly no options .

It'd be like buying a car, and the salesman tell you that you need to purchase the tires separately, and although they usually run $100 a tire, with VAT and import fees, they'll come out to $600 each. Still want the car?

Yes I could buy a 240 Copper RAD for the price of a litre of coolant.

If it exceeds my budget, i will use distilled water with colloidal silver and pray to god.

 

[JaSoN_cRuZe]

The material composition of my build is like,

Radiator - Brass & Copper.
CPU Block - Copper plated with Nickel.
GPU Block - Copper plated with Nickel.
Fittings - Brass plated with Nickel.
Coolant - Distilled water with Silver

Maybe will try with Distilled water and Silver at start and based on the usage will switch to Thermaltake T1000.

 

[rubix_1011]

Loop order does not matter in terms of build setup or cooling.

 

[digitalgriffin]

The material composition of my build is like,

Radiator - Brass & Copper.
CPU Block - Copper plated with Nickel.
GPU Block - Copper plated with Nickel.
Fittings - Brass plated with Nickel.
Coolant - Distilled water with Silver

Maybe will try with Distilled water and Silver at start and based on the usage will switch to Thermaltake T1000.

The silver (Kill coil) is to inhibit bacterial/fungal growth. But it's not an anti-corrosive. Do you have access to PrimoChill? You can't use primo chill with a silver coil. But primo chill is a all in one including prep options, which is vital.

I'll answer the rest of your questions in a bit.

 

[JaSoN_cRuZe]

The silver (Kill coil) is to inhibit bacterial/fungal growth. But it's not an anti-corrosive. Do you have access to PrimoChill? You can't use primo chill with a silver coil. But primo chill is a all in one including prep options, which is vital.

I'll answer the rest of your questions in a bit.

Sure Thanks for your help.

No PrimoChill available here, any other chemicals i can use?

 

[rubix_1011]

Kill coils have been deemed relatively ineffective overall in preventing growth over the last few years. While silver itself can have anti-microbial growth properties, there isn't enough silver to ionize into the coolant to be effective like some form of silver particulate would have.

Also, copper itself also is effective in the same manner and there is far more copper in a cooling loop than a silver kill coil can provide...and we've seen what happens when a loop is left without any growth inhibitors.

I would almost be willing to setup this test to run for a long period of time since I have enough parts around to conduct it...I just don't really feel like doing it.

 

[digitalgriffin]

I would almost be willing to setup this test to run for a long period of time since I have enough parts around to conduct it...I just don't really feel like doing it.

Brave man

 

[digitalgriffin]

Sure Thanks for your help.

No PrimoChill available here, any other chemicals i can use?

Well first you need to flush your radiator. Running a solution of water + vinegar through it will help remove residue used during the construction process. Let the vinegar soak for a while inside the radiator, then drain it into a cup and examine the contents to see if it comes out clean. If not clean, repeat.

You could also try to use ethylene/propylene glycol. In otherwords ordinary radiator fluid for your car. Car radiators have a lot of the same issues. The risk here is having a solution that is compatible with your pump seals, and o ring seals. I imagine most mixes aren't too far off from car coolant, but I haven't run a chromato-graph or spectro graph on some to find out for sure.

As to your loop setup, yes a DDC pump would be your best bet. Most DDC pumps I saw start at $50 without anything else. They have a tendency to run hot and should have a good heatsink on them. As you can only use the 360 effectively, I would get a double thick 360 and set it up this way. A distribution block allows you to run parallel circuits.

​

GPU <=> Distribution Block + DDC pump <=>360 Radiator

^​

||​

CPU​

UFD tech (Youtube) did something similar with their Zebra project.

 

[truegenius]

360 radiator for cpu+ gpu is kind of low unless its thick or you want to run at stock clocks
If running at stock then I will suggest to get CLC like this
https://mdcomputers.in/antec-mercury-360-rgb.html
no point in going for custom water cooling for ryzen as unless you overvolt like crazy
Custom is more of a hassle when upgrading parts, also its expensive for minimal gains specially in India ( also soft tube doesn't look good either, hard tubing are better for aesthetics)

Also , never buy cheap pumps, they are not reliable and will damage components before you realise that they failed.
ek kit https://www.theitdepot.com/details-Ekwb+EK-KIT+S240+Water+Cooling+Kit+(3831109863527)_P27225.html
some one selling used custom part here http://www.erodov.com/forums/ekwb-cpu-block-ek-d5-pump-res-combo-fittings-radiator/94623.html

 

[rubix_1011]

Custom is more of a hassle when upgrading parts,

Please explain.

also its expensive for minimal gains specially in India

Rather subjective, isn't it?

( also soft tube doesn't look good either, hard tubing are better for aesthetics)

Your choice on looks or the choice of others?

Also , never buy cheap pumps, they are not reliable and will damage components before you realise that they failed.

Can you explain to me how they damage components? I'm curious to hear this.

 

[truegenius]

1)Please explain.



2)Rather subjective, isn't it?



3)Your choice on looks or the choice of others?



4)Can you explain to me how they damage components? I'm curious to hear this.

(i added numbers to your reply to make it easy to reply as i am using phone)
1) Example:- upgrading gpu.
No water cooling:- pop out old gpu, pop in new gpu, done.
with water cooling:- empty loop, unplug gpu block tubing, remove heatsink from new gpu, install gpu block ( buy new block if using full cover ) , install gpu, connect tubing, refill, check for leak, done.
As you can see, more steps, more time consuming, can be more expensive down the road if block isn't universal, additional precaution of checking for leak.

2)Since no custom cooling parts are available in india, so importing makes them around 1.75 to 2x more expensive than in origin country and can forget about warranty due to shipping back.

3) It obvious yet here is an example. Soft tube are easier, cheaper, quicker to work on, yet rarely any youtuber use them for show build instead go for hard tube, why ? coz you know.

4)

Also , never buy cheap pumps, they are not reliable and will damage components before you realise that they failed.

there, i have bolded the important bit which is answer to your question.

I have used chinese watercooling parts, one day pump stoped working ( few months after i bought) and i didn't realised it unless computer shut down due to overheating, the acrylic top of block melted a bit but not enough to leak so nothing was damaged enough to become paperweight.
Now i have ek s360kit with gpu full cover water block and additional 240 rad with one section of acrylic tube and rest soft tubes, it costed me 850$ including shipping, customs, IGST, some extra expense due to pathetic DHL express ( took 5 weeks to deliver).

 

[JaSoN_cRuZe]

(i added numbers to your reply to make it easy to reply as i am using phone)
1) Example:- upgrading gpu.
No water cooling:- pop out old gpu, pop in new gpu, done.
with water cooling:- empty loop, unplug gpu block tubing, remove heatsink from new gpu, install gpu block ( buy new block if using full cover ) , install gpu, connect tubing, refill, check for leak, done.
As you can see, more steps, more time consuming, can be more expensive down the road if block isn't universal, additional precaution of checking for leak.

2)Since no custom cooling parts are available in india, so importing makes them around 1.75 to 2x more expensive than in origin country and can forget about warranty due to shipping back.

3) It obvious yet here is an example. Soft tube are easier, cheaper, quicker to work on, yet rarely any youtuber use them for show build instead go for hard tube, why ? coz you know.

4)
there, i have bolded the important bit which is answer to your question.

I have used chinese watercooling parts, one day pump stoped working ( few months after i bought) and i didn't realised it unless computer shut down due to overheating, the acrylic top of block melted a bit but not enough to leak so nothing was damaged enough to become paperweight.
Now i have ek s360kit with gpu full cover water block and additional 240 rad with one section of acrylic tube and rest soft tubes, it costed me 850$ including shipping, customs, IGST, some extra expense due to pathetic DHL express ( took 5 weeks to deliver).

Thanks for the suggestion just to add this is the higher end pump present in Aliexpress there are only cheaper options when compared to my selection and i'm not willing to spend a fortune on custom water cooling kit.

Many suggest that the Barrow/Byksi products are pretty good and they have their own sites too. I going to buy a CPU,GPU block and PUMP from them.

I'm already rocking a EVGA CLC 280 and it does the work fine(signature for specs) but i want a custom water cooling loop because of the robustness of the AM4 platform. With this system i can just swap out the processors and never worry about cooling. Maybe i will get a used 3950X in 2 years.

I'm not gonna switch my GPU until it dies or performs poor at 1080p also i have 5 year international warranty for that and putting a GPU block does not void its warranty.

 

[rubix_1011]

(i added numbers to your reply to make it easy to reply as i am using phone)
1) Example:- upgrading gpu.
No water cooling:- pop out old gpu, pop in new gpu, done.
with water cooling:- empty loop, unplug gpu block tubing, remove heatsink from new gpu, install gpu block ( buy new block if using full cover ) , install gpu, connect tubing, refill, check for leak, done.
As you can see, more steps, more time consuming, can be more expensive down the road if block isn't universal, additional precaution of checking for leak.

2)Since no custom cooling parts are available in india, so importing makes them around 1.75 to 2x more expensive than in origin country and can forget about warranty due to shipping back.

3) It obvious yet here is an example. Soft tube are easier, cheaper, quicker to work on, yet rarely any youtuber use them for show build instead go for hard tube, why ? coz you know.

4)
there, i have bolded the important bit which is answer to your question.

I have used chinese watercooling parts, one day pump stoped working ( few months after i bought) and i didn't realised it unless computer shut down due to overheating, the acrylic top of block melted a bit but not enough to leak so nothing was damaged enough to become paperweight.
Now i have ek s360kit with gpu full cover water block and additional 240 rad with one section of acrylic tube and rest soft tubes, it costed me 850$ including shipping, customs, IGST, some extra expense due to pathetic DHL express ( took 5 weeks to deliver).

1) Changing a GPU in a watercooling loop isn't that difficult, but I suppose for some it possibly is.

2) You are basing this entirely on money, which isn't an issue for everyone. In fact, it might only be an issue for those who make it an issue. I don't think I have ever returned any watercooling part I have purchased. Do that many people buy parts and return them? Why? Seems like doing research ahead of time would eliminate this need.

3) I could care less what a 'youtuber' does for a video. Soft tubing can be done very elegantly and be ideal in some builds over others. Also consider what you said - show build - often these builds are done only for the explicit need of being used for a few days. You also fail to mention the learning curve of trial and error (+ additional cost) of learning how to correctly make hard tubing bends.

4) Bolded which part?

I have used chinese watercooling parts, one day pump stoped working

Seems like using unknown brand parts is more of the issue here than anything else. This is why I make it clear that spending large sums of money on PC parts and then cooling them with the cheapest watercooling components is a rather fruitless effort in most instances. I wouldn't pay a lot of money to enter a theme park to ride the largest, fastest roller coaster only to be limited to having shoe laces as a safety belt due to the park not having any money left over to spend on securing me in the seat.

Now i have ek s360kit with gpu full cover water block and additional 240 rad with one section of acrylic tube and rest soft tubes, it costed me 850$ including shipping, customs, IGST, some extra expense due to pathetic DHL express ( took 5 weeks to deliver).

Sounds like you learned a valuable lesson from using cheap, unknown watercooling parts and went with something more reliable and with a good reputation, although EK is not the only good watercooling vendor.

Curious as to where you ordered from? Some sites offer decent international shipping, but much of this is limited to the local nation's tax/VAT fees.

 

[JaSoN_cRuZe]

Sorry for the silly question, what tubing should i use a clear one or a colored one.

All the available tubings are based on soft PVC.

I heard clear one gets tinted overtime with cloudy effect and plasticizer gunk the microfins in the blocks. Also colored tubes blocks sunlight which helps in mitigating growth inside the loop.

Will this not happen on colored tubes ? If so i will go with a colored one.

Thanks for the help guys. Very much appreciated.

 

[rubix_1011]

It happens much of the time on all tubing unless you have tubing that is reduced or free of plasticizers.

The color just makes it more difficult to see, but in most instances, it is a very light film that exists rather than a heavy build up.

 

[JaSoN_cRuZe]

It happens much of the time on all tubing unless you have tubing that is reduced or free of plasticizers.

The color just makes it more difficult to see, but in most instances, it is a very light film that exists rather than a heavy build up.

So what should i go with a clear or white colored?

 

[rubix_1011]

Your choice.