Question HELP! Custom Water Cooling Setup!

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JaSoN_cRuZe

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Thanks you guys for all your inputs.

My build is done successfully without any beginner problems except for the one time i started the machine without plugging the fans and after some time BSOD.

Everything else is working great GPU temps stay below 45C(room temp 30C), Overclocked 1070Ti to +200 on core and +550 on memory. I have a very bad chip so much thermal headroom but does not go further :(.

The only thing bugging me is that the amount of copper sulfate added to the distilled water. Should the water be dark blue or very light blue after adding.

I bled the system with distilled water then tried to remove water but did not want to mess my setup by tilting, so took as much of distilled water just by some small tilts here and there. Made a Copper sulfate solution where the water was light blue then added to the reservoir up to full. The color of the water in the reservoir has not changed to light blue because of low concentration. Is this OK. Should i need to bleed the system with the light blue solution again?

PS. Still need to add some fans at top for optimal positive- negative pressure. Will post pics once everything is done and RGB is all set.
What do you guys think? @rubix_1011 @Karadjgne
 

Karadjgne

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I'm not a fan (no pun intended) of attempting to differentiate pressure. It doesn't really work. Fans don't just draw air, they draw air from the nearest available higher pressure area, which inevitably is the nearest sort of venting. At lower rpm (for exhaust), this'll definitely be the open areas by the gpu, rear exhaust fan, top open fan port etc. So unless you keep a decent amount of higher cfm moving to the exhausts, you'll have a negative pressure almost always at idle at the backside of the case.

Ppl do smoke tests and claim 'if it sucks in the smoke, it's negative' and do so with higher rpms on intakes to prove the point, which is true, it's a positive system then, but they don't do it at idle because the fans will almost always suck the smoke in the gaps.

So it becomes a moot point. Linus built 5 pc's, all identical, in fractal design R5 cases. Stuck them in the room where he was revamping his work areas, left them untouched for one solid year. They were all setup slightly different with fans, intake and exhaust and all intakes, all exhaust etc just to get positive/negative pressure, and see where the dust went. Pretty much the same amount of dust in all, just in different places. They idled the whole time, so even supposed positive pc's still sucked in dust through the cracks.

Airflow is far more important. A good, solid straight through airflow pattern will do more for case temps, cpu temps, gpu temps than any positive/negative set ups. Having too many fans is not always a good thing, exhausts close to intakes get the best flow, but don't necessarily remove any heat with it, leaving hotspots in other areas, most of the intake air chimneying up the front of the case, not the back.

So keep airflow patterns in mind when adding fans.

Copper sulfate solutions can differ slightly in concentration, some are stronger than others. But they'll all have recommended directions as to how much/many drops per litre. If you stick to that, you'll be fine.
 

JaSoN_cRuZe

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Thanks for the info @Karadjgne .

I just needed to add some low rpm fans at top, to exhaust the hot intake air from the front 360 radiator.

I have mounted CM Sickle Flow X on the front and rear(120) RAD's where 3 are intake and 1 exhaust respectively.

Now i have mounted the 3*120 Antec fans on the top which has lesser RPM over the top for additional exhaust.

Now my build air flow will be similar to this.



PS. Used a pencil to prevent GPU Slag :D Will add some decoration to hide it nicely.
 

Karadjgne

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Heh. You know that slide ruler that comes on the front of almost every electric circular saw? I torched and blacksmithed the 'U' bend out of one, put a 1" 90° bend on the now straight bar, sanded it smooth and painted it black. Stuck some shrink wrap on the tip for rub protection. Tapped a couple of screws in the base and mounted it inside the case from the outside. Gpu isn't going anywhere now.
 
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Darkbreeze

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The configuration in that diagram will work fine. Removing the fan in the top center will likely afford BETTER airflow over the motherboard and VRM components though, which can be more important on a water cooled build than one that isn't, because air cooled configurations generally have some residual airflow over the components near the air cooler by default. A rear, and top rear, exhaust fan, is plenty for most systems ALTHOUGH you might want to set the RPM of THOSE two fans slightly higher than that of any front or bottom intakes especially if there are more intakes than exhausts, to help balance the pressure differential more closely to equal or just slightly negative pressue. Negative pressure will offer higher pure cooling performance. Equal pressure is generally what I shoot for, but can probably never be achieved without very extensive airflow testing equipment and a fully closed case design where the ONLY openings are the specific fan mounting locations and only if they are all in use and calibrated based on fan capability and an allowance for the reduction in airflow from the intake fans due to the level of static pressure they will see, or not see, depending on your calibrations.

Overall, I like two or three intakes and two exhaust, even for highly overclocked systems. It is plenty of airflow. If that is not enough airflow to keep your components cool, then there is a lack of CPU cooling performance from your cooler or some other issue such as an unrealistic configuration for your ambient temperature.
 
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JaSoN_cRuZe

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The configuration in that diagram will work fine. Removing the fan in the top center will likely afford BETTER airflow over the motherboard and VRM components though, which can be more important on a water cooled build than one that isn't, because air cooled configurations generally have some residual airflow over the components near the air cooler by default. A rear, and top rear, exhaust fan, is plenty for most systems ALTHOUGH you might want to set the RPM of THOSE two fans slightly higher than that of any front or bottom intakes especially if there are more intakes than exhausts, to help balance the pressure differential more closely to equal or just slightly negative pressue. Negative pressure will offer higher pure cooling performance. Equal pressure is generally what I shoot for, but can probably never be achieved without very extensive airflow testing equipment and a fully closed case design where the ONLY openings are the specific fan mounting locations and only if they are all in use and calibrated based on fan capability and an allowance for the reduction in airflow from the intake fans due to the level of static pressure they will see, or not see, depending on your calibrations.

Overall, I like two or three intakes and two exhaust, even for highly overclocked systems. It is plenty of airflow. If that is not enough airflow to keep your components cool, then there is a lack of CPU cooling performance from your cooler or some other issue such as an unrealistic configuration for your ambient temperature.
My config is that I have 4 CM Sickle Flow X with ~2000 RPM fans mounted as 3 intakes @ front and 1 exhaust @ rear with 360 and 120 radiator respectively.

The 3 Antec fans which comes with the case can go up to ~1300 RPM mounted as exhaust at the top.

So is my config OK or should i remove the top center fan to be more optimal. Thanks
 

Darkbreeze

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Eh, with that front mounted radiator it probably doesn't even matter that much. Not like it would with an air cooler. I think you would be perfectly fine with the rear radiator as exhaust and the top rear fan location populated, and no middle or front top fans installed but you should just test it both ways and compare the results by monitoring the VRM and other motherboard thermal sensors in HWinfo.
 
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Darkbreeze

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Static pressure and airflow levels on those fans are respectable enough, but they are loud. Very loud. I can't make any recommendations at the moment because I'm about to head out the door, but the choices for RGB fans that have decent specifications for noise level, static pressure and airflow are very minimal. I'll take a look later this evening. Corsair and Fractal design are probably the two brands with fans that have something that is adequate in all those categories AND has RGB. Maybe a couple of others. Honestly, given the high end nature of your configuration, I'd forget about running RGB fans on your radiator.

You will not find an RGB fan with the same kind of performance and tolerable noise levels as you will in non-RGB options. I'd recommend getting your RGB fix elsewhere, Run light strips or something. Fans should be about the performance, not about the lighting. Or, be about the lighting, but don't do a custom loop. Hard to do both and do it well.
 
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Karadjgne

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I personally prefer strips to fans for lighting affects. Sure, some fans look good, and Antec seems to finally have figured out what no one else has in using dual sided rings, since not all fans are mounted ring side facing out.

But a strip(s) placed right will provide more even ambient light, covering the entire zone, fans only illuminate surrounding areas. Like the difference between flood lamps and spot lamps. Often hodgepodge.

Biggest bonus to strips is lack of need. For argb fans you'll need a controller, or be limited to the 12w a mobo can supply. Fans need serious wiring attention, the more fans the bigger the pain in the *** to wire, since you have fan and lighting wires to contend with. Rgb fans are even worse, requiring expensive controllers that offer amperage changes needed for rgb. Rgb fans need continuity. No mix and match, all the same type, can't mix argb and rgb on same controller etc. It's a fan, it needs to go in only certain spots.

Strips just plug in. They don't have any affect on fan changes, fan types, have minimal wiring needs, can be placed anywhere to accent whichever part of the case needs it. Can be of several lengths, as needed or wanted. Far more versatile than a fan.

If a strip quits working, it's an easy swap, and unnecessary to the function of the pc. If a fan quits, that's a different story.
 
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JaSoN_cRuZe

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I personally prefer strips to fans for lighting affects. Sure, some fans look good, and Antec seems to finally have figured out what no one else has in using dual sided rings, since not all fans are mounted ring side facing out.

But a strip(s) placed right will provide more even ambient light, covering the entire zone, fans only illuminate surrounding areas. Like the difference between flood lamps and spot lamps. Often hodgepodge.

Biggest bonus to strips is lack of need. For argb fans you'll need a controller, or be limited to the 12w a mobo can supply. Fans need serious wiring attention, the more fans the bigger the pain in the *** to wire, since you have fan and lighting wires to contend with. Rgb fans are even worse, requiring expensive controllers that offer amperage changes needed for rgb. Rgb fans need continuity. No mix and match, all the same type, can't mix argb and rgb on same controller etc. It's a fan, it needs to go in only certain spots.

Strips just plug in. They don't have any affect on fan changes, fan types, have minimal wiring needs, can be placed anywhere to accent whichever part of the case needs it. Can be of several lengths, as needed or wanted. Far more versatile than a fan.

If a strip quits working, it's an easy swap, and unnecessary to the function of the pc. If a fan quits, that's a different story.
Thanks guys but the Antec fan i have mentioned comes with a kit of 5 fans and a controller all supporting 5v 3pin connections same as my cpu and pump. The controller supports upto 5 connections with 5 pwm respectively. I just need to extend the controller to support two more argb devices.

Also the fan kit which includes 5 fans and a controller are considerably cheap amounting to 850 INR ($12) per fan. The other available brands with good quality fans in my locality are Corsair and Noctua which does not support ARGB but amounts to 1250 INR ($18) to 1700 INR ($25) per fan.

Antec Prizm!!
Noctua!!
Corsair!!
 
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Darkbreeze

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Ok, so looking at those Prism fans again, IMO you REALLY don't want those.

True, they have 2.56mm H20 static pressure, which is "ok" for a 120mm fan, but that is at 2000 RPM, which is NOT ok. A decent heatsink or radiator fan would be capable of that kind of static pressure at around 1350-1500 RPM.

Plus, they only have a maximum of 45CFM at 2000 RPM? That's horrific. REALLY terrible.

The Fractal design Prisma RGB fans, by comparison, have nearly double that at 85CFM at 2000 RPM, a higher static pressure at 2.78mm H20 (Still low for a 2000 RPM fan considering the Noctua NF-A14 iPPC industrial 2000 RPM fan has 3.94 mm H20 at the same speed) and about the same noise levels, which are not particularly good considering the Noctua 2000 RPM PWM fan has only 29.7db instead of the 32.6db these other fans have.

If you like them, then you will likely get them, but I'm advising you that the money you spent on this expensive loop hardware will almost certainly have been a waste if you use those fans. The Fractal design Prisma fans would be better, although they still won't have great noise levels or really excellent static pressure, so there is likely to still be some loss of performance due to inversion leakage resulting in some loss of focused airflow through your radiators.

There are probably a few other options out there as well, worth looking at, but they still won't be great if they have RGB. You can have great fans with great performance characteristics or you can have RGB. You can't have both. At least, not yet.
 
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Karadjgne

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The Corsair H115i/150i Pro is a perfect example. It's original release used the plain ML fans, and was top of the performance charts. Seriously good AIO for the money. Lasted about a year, then Corsair (I'm guessing) got tired of loosing sales to all the RGB/ARGB AIO's flooding the market. So those fans were swapped out and all the H115i/H150i Pro versions are now just like everyone else. Bright and shiney lighting, mediocre performance.

In the case of AIO's that were mediocre to begin with, moving to RGB/ARGB just put performance in the toilet.

A fan hub is only so big. Once you decide to stick wiring, pcb's etc inside that motor housing to handle the lighting, something has to give. And it's the motor size and ability.
 

Darkbreeze

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Which is kind of my point. IF you want performance rather than quick, easy, aesthetics, you go with a custom open loop, and IF you do THAT, it only makes sense to put GOOD fans on there that have the kind of performance that make DOING a custom loop in the first place, sensible.

If you are going to go with flashy, under performing fans, you might as well just have a cheap AIO closed loop cooler so that you're not killing off the hundreds of dollars you invested to get superior performance. Makes little sense to go half and half.
 

rubix_1011

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The EK Vardar RGB fans I have on my radiators are actually pretty solid fans, but I would need to see if they compare to the normal EK Vardar fans. I just got my fan setup for measuring static pressure and actual CFM in an 3D printed air tunnel for 120mm and 140mm fans.

It's pretty neat.
 
The EK Vardar RGB fans I have on my radiators are actually pretty solid fans, but I would need to see if they compare to the normal EK Vardar fans. I just got my fan setup for measuring static pressure and actual CFM in an 3D printed air tunnel for 120mm and 140mm fans.

It's pretty neat.
Looks like on paper the rgb 120er outperforms the tried and true f3. By a decent margin too. Very interested to see your actual results.

They're pricey, but it seems they do have both looks and performance.
 

Darkbreeze

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The EK Vardar RGB fans I have on my radiators are actually pretty solid fans, but I would need to see if they compare to the normal EK Vardar fans. I just got my fan setup for measuring static pressure and actual CFM in an 3D printed air tunnel for 120mm and 140mm fans.

It's pretty neat.
That, I am interested in seeing and maybe interested in having one of my self someday. Might have to PM you about some things regarding that. Maybe testing some fans. IDK. We'll see.

Which fans, exactly, do you have?
 

JaSoN_cRuZe

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Ok, so looking at those Prism fans again, IMO you REALLY don't want those.

True, they have 2.56mm H20 static pressure, which is "ok" for a 120mm fan, but that is at 2000 RPM, which is NOT ok. A decent heatsink or radiator fan would be capable of that kind of static pressure at around 1350-1500 RPM.

Plus, they only have a maximum of 45CFM at 2000 RPM? That's horrific. REALLY terrible.

The Fractal design Prisma RGB fans, by comparison, have nearly double that at 85CFM at 2000 RPM, a higher static pressure at 2.78mm H20 (Still low for a 2000 RPM fan considering the Noctua NF-A14 iPPC industrial 2000 RPM fan has 3.94 mm H20 at the same speed) and about the same noise levels, which are not particularly good considering the Noctua 2000 RPM PWM fan has only 29.7db instead of the 32.6db these other fans have.

If you like them, then you will likely get them, but I'm advising you that the money you spent on this expensive loop hardware will almost certainly have been a waste if you use those fans. The Fractal design Prisma fans would be better, although they still won't have great noise levels or really excellent static pressure, so there is likely to still be some loss of performance due to inversion leakage resulting in some loss of focused airflow through your radiators.

There are probably a few other options out there as well, worth looking at, but they still won't be great if they have RGB. You can have great fans with great performance characteristics or you can have RGB. You can't have both. At least, not yet.
Yeah i get it now, Manufacturers sacrifice performance in place of RGB and there are no best of both worlds.

I got lot of suggestions to go with best non-RGB SP fan and get phanteks RGB halos but i don't like this RGB effect rather i prefer just a outer ring ARGB.

What about these fans for the same price but no ARGB 😭 Corsair ML 120 PWM!!

I will buy 2*2 and mount them on the radiators. Front 3 and rear 1.
 
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Darkbreeze

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Those are very good fans. A bit noisy, but they have good static pressure and airflow characteristics.

I like the Noctua industrial 2000 RPM fans better, because they are about 10db quieter and that is a LOT when it comes to noise levels, while still having about the same static pressure and airflow as those ML120's, but they might not be reasonably priced in your region so if not you could do a lot worse than those ML120's.
 
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JaSoN_cRuZe

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Those are very good fans. A bit noisy, but they have good static pressure and airflow characteristics.

I like the Noctua industrial 2000 RPM fans better, because they are about 10db quieter and that is a LOT when it comes to noise levels, while still having about the same static pressure and airflow as those ML120's, but they might not be reasonably priced in your region so if not you could do a lot worse than those ML120's.
Yes the Noctua fans are costly and are priced relatively higher. There are no dual packs where each fan costs around 1500INR (>20 dollars) or more so i will probably go with these.

For ARGB will go for some LED strips and use the controller which came with the pump and CPU block.

Thanks
 

JaSoN_cRuZe

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Hi @Darkbreeze

Another question how can i control the fan speed of these PWM fans.

Currently my motherboard has 3x4 pin PWM (CPU,CPU_OPT & CHA1 ) and 3x3 pin ( CHA2, PWR_FAN1 & PWR_FAN 2) fan headers where 2x3pin (CHA 2 & PWR_FAN1) fan headers have RPM sensors.

Also i need a PWM to control my pump speed.

What should i buy, a splitter or a fan hub so that i can control the fan speed and the pump speed with my current fan setup of 3 intake, 1 exhaust.
 

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