Henri Richard explains why AMD failed to gain more marketshare

[Guest]

Actually whilst it obviously has some relevance, I should have stated instead ASP(average selling price), which shows that Intel is able to command a price premium due in no small part to the strength of their brand.

Weren't you the one suggesting that the new i3's and i5's were created for the business sector? That is where intel can command silly prices because of their brand.

If you think the general public would pay more for a dual core intel instead of a cheaper quad core AMD, you need a head examination - specifically a brain check to make sure you aren't missing one. 😀

 

[Chad Boga]

Weren't you the one suggesting that the new i3's and i5's were created for the business sector?

I don't believe I made that claim, but obviously businesses will be a large target for these chips.

That is where intel can command silly prices because of their brand.

There are limits to what the brand premium allows and I think the i3's and i5's are more expensive than they should be.

If you think the general public would pay more for a dual core intel instead of a cheaper quad core AMD, you need a head examination - specifically a brain check to make sure you aren't missing one. 😀

The general public already have done this with C2D against Phleanom, whether it will happen to the same extent against PhII's remain to be seen, but you must be quite ignorant to be unaware that the precedent has already been set.

 

[sonoran]

Sonoran, I don't doubt your figures at all, but because I would like to inform others on different sites, do you know of a link that breaks down the compiler percentages between MSVC, GCC, ICC and whatever else is out there?

Sorry, I don't have a breakdown. The "less than 10%" came from the last paragraph on page 5 of Intel's response to the FTC:

"Intel, a minor player with a single digit market share in compilers"

 

[Chad Boga]

Sorry, I don't have a breakdown. The "less than 10%" came from the last paragraph on page 5 of Intel's response to the FTC:

"Intel, a minor player with a single digit market share in compilers"

Thanks

 

[Guest]

Sorry, I don't have a breakdown. The "less than 10%" came from the last paragraph on page 5 of Intel's response to the FTC:

"Intel, a minor player with a single digit market share in compilers"

I've seen 10% mentioned before.

10% is 1 in 10 programs, 99/100 of which the coder would have had no idea he was crippling AMD and Via processors by using intels compiler. More details will out during the case, and it's going to make for some uncomfortable reading for the intel fanboys I'm sure.

 

[Guest]

The real issue is, if it's such a small number why isn't intel doing what the FTC demands, and rectifying the issues their compiler has caused?

 

[Chad Boga]

The real issue is, if it's such a small number why isn't intel doing what the FTC demands, and rectifying the issues their compiler has caused?

You mean besides because Intel are under no obligation to help AMD?

It may well be that the FTC and Intel agree that from here on end that Intel will allow non-Intel CPU's access to the latest code paths, and that AMD will either have to pay for the verification processes or agree to absolve Intel of any blame if an AMD CPU throws up errors.

One could only imagine with your poor understanding of the issues involved and love for conspiracy theories, how you and your ilk, would have interpreted an AMD CPU throwing up an error using the latest code path the ICC produces.

With the FTC potentially brokering an agreement here, Intel wouldn't have to worry about AMD trying to leach more money from them.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

I don't believe I made that claim, but obviously businesses will be a large target for these chips.

That is where intel can command silly prices because of their brand.

There are limits to what the brand premium allows and I think the i3's and i5's are more expensive than they should be.

If you think the general public would pay more for a dual core intel instead of a cheaper quad core AMD, you need a head examination - specifically a brain check to make sure you aren't missing one. 😀

The general public already have done this with C2D against Phleanom, whether it will happen to the same extent against PhII's remain to be seen, but you must be quite ignorant to be unaware that the precedent has already been set.

Dont confuse are small lil community with the greater picture here.
The Phenoms werent picked up by the OEMs for various reasons, partly to do with perf.
We arent OEM friendly, where the vast majority of chips are sold, and the 620 is much better in perf all around compared to Phenom, and if the OEMs decide them for some designs, the numbers will show, and then also, word of mouth etc.
Being at the point of good enough here, times have changed

 

[verndewd]

I don't believe I made that claim, but obviously businesses will be a large target for these chips.

That is where intel can command silly prices because of their brand.

There are limits to what the brand premium allows and I think the i3's and i5's are more expensive than they should be.

If you think the general public would pay more for a dual core intel instead of a cheaper quad core AMD, you need a head examination - specifically a brain check to make sure you aren't missing one. 😀

The general public already have done this with C2D against Phlegm om, whether it will happen to the same extent against PhII's remain to be seen, but you must be quite ignorant to be unaware that the precedent has already been set.

fixed

its barfalona
plegm on
socket AM goo
and then we need the real names of am2 release chips
like bendoverdork (windsor) etc

As messed up as richards was for dissing his own team he was right about am2. but the fact that freescale would take the same chance either indicates they feel the same or are just stupid.

oh yeah and then your spat with jenny here :lol:

I think theyll do well with the phenom2 class chips, they ate serious crow for a couple years but they bounced back impressively on that tired old design . that M arch has got to be feeling like an over worked prostitute at this point. Still it impressive that rather than go new arch the refined an existing one to the point of competing.

The core design there is old man, at least in pc terms. Id think that even Intel is admiring AMD's tenacity in recycling and maybe rethinking the new arch every 2 years idea. Heck if you can keep one design and revamp it every year and stay competitive thats a money saver.

It cant be said that AMD isnt lacking in ingenuity, it can be said however, that they just cant seem to be ingenius as quickly as intel.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Maybe I should start a new thread titled

"Is AMD pulling a nVidia?" and ask if what theyre doing is similar to nVidias usage of the G80/G92 heheh

 

[someguy7]

Sure given 100 near-identical pc's 99/100 somebody would choose intel. Then you say 'the AMD is $50 cheaper', and 99/100 buy the AMD instead...or they would if they had the same level of choice available.

You cant say that average consumer doesnt even know that Intel makes cpus. Then say the average consumer will not pay a premium for the Intel brand. The customer we are talking about will not know what he is paying for. He will not know how the machines perform against each other so it is impossible for the clueless to actually decide to pay more for Intel brand. They will just buy the friggin brand name they know.

People go into shops like PC World every day and see hundreds of pc's lined up running the same stuff. Now a lot of them went with the idea of buying an intel and leave with an AMD instead - almost 1 in 3 in fact. If intels brand is so superior, why is that?

Is it down to AMD's non-existent marketing? You can't have it both ways, either AMD is doing something right marketing-wise or intels consumer brand is weak at best.

So the joe average consumer that doesn't even know that Intel makes cpus is going to be able to look at a Intel and AMD machine and compare the cost/performance? Fail.

He's going to buy the AMD because its cheaper and by all accounts runs the same. He may have had the notion of buying intel when he left his house that morning, but after seeing the price tags he realised intel wasn't worth it. That is the power of the intel brand to the average joe.

You answered your own question with the PC world statement. According to you one almost one out three people buy the AMD from pc world. So according to your statement over 66 percent of the people bought a Intel just because of the brand. You just disproved your own point with that one.

AMD is not doing anything right marketing wise here in the states. They simply dont market here.

You then fail to address your previous failed logic once again. Now its he is going to by AMD because its cheaper and by all accounts runs the same. The buyer will NOT be able to tell the difference between the 100 machines on display at the store you mentioned. They would not be able to tell the difference between Pentium brand core2 and a i7 in the store. Or any AMD chips in the current AMD lineup. Even including the single core the average joe will not know there difference between that and a PII 965. Take two systems priced at 500 dollars with one being AMD the other Intel. Average joe will not be able to tell which one performs better. All he will be able to tell is the screen size/hdd size and the amount of ram.

As I stated before the average consumer goes into the store looking to spend a set amount. And using your own statement. Over 2/3rds of the people leave with a Intel machine. That is name recognition.

Average joe in America IMHO is one of the dumbest piles of turds on the earth.

 

[verndewd]

You answered your own question with the PC world statement. According to you one almost one out three people buy the AMD from pc world. So according to your statement over 66 percent of the people bought a Intel just because of the brand. You just disproved your own point with that one.

AMD is not doing anything right marketing wise here in the states. They simply dont market here.

You then fail to address your previous failed logic once again. Now its he is going to by AMD because its cheaper and by all accounts runs the same. The buyer will NOT be able to tell the difference between the 100 machines on display at the store you mentioned. They would not be able to tell the difference between Pentium brand core2 and a i7 in the store. Or any AMD chips in the current AMD lineup. Even including the single core the average joe will not know there difference between that and a PII 965. Take two systems priced at 500 dollars with one being AMD the other Intel. Average joe will not be able to tell which one performs better. All he will be able to tell is the screen size/hdd size and the amount of ram.

As I stated before the average consumer goes into the store looking to spend a set amount. And using your own statement. Over 2/3rds of the people leave with a Intel machine. That is name recognition.

Average joe in America IMHO is one of the dumbest piles of turds on the earth.

I agree , most users wont tell any difference in performance. they want a reasonably capable pc for a couple hundred and athlon 2 more than delivers.

Kinda harsh on my homies there pal but its not incorrect.

 

[Guest]

As I stated before the average consumer goes into the store looking to spend a set amount. And using your own statement. Over 2/3rds of the people leave with a Intel machine. That is name recognition.

Average joe in America IMHO is one of the dumbest piles of turds on the earth.

I'll assume you've never worked in sales, else you'd know that it is your job to sell the most expensive thing you can. How many people do you think are being 'advised' to buy the cheaper AMD systems? How many do you think are pressured into spending more on the intel?

It's got nothing to do with name recognition and everything to do with the bottom line for the seller. Even a bad salesperson could sell an intel for $50 more than an AMD. To stupid people that is.

I guess around 33% of your fellow Americans aren't quite so dumb, because they figured out the smarter choice. Then again how dumb is it really when we have otherwise intelligent people (ie yourself and a bunch of intel fanboys) who would still spend more cash simply for the intel sticker? That one is worth thinking about.

 

[JAYDEEJOHN]

Lets be clear here, All these rigs get sold. Its not that theyre sent back. Its how many hit the shelves, how many contain Intel, how many AMD.
The OEMs constraints are long gone, the good enough effect has been met by both companies now, with P2 making that end a reality for AMD.
This really comes down to power/features/cost.
How long can Intel play on the "were better because of our name"? When to average Joe, perf doesnt come in at top priority, as will be seen after enough desgn wins gets sold by AMD?
And, anything over 22% is a win for AMD in total sales

 

[Chad Boga]

I guess around 33% of your fellow Americans aren't quite so dumb, because they figured out the smarter choice.

Sounds like a few of them may have been suffering from a poverty mentality, and buying Hyundai's and Kia's instead of Toyota's and Honda's. 😀

 

[bigwater]

SWINE FLEW

 

[verndewd]

SWINE FLEW
http://fc03.deviantart.net/fs50/f/2009/334/1/2/1205c5bdc8bb1bc64a1a9df9c145cbb7.gif

Oh noes its the swine flew epideminc, RUUUNNN !!!

 

[verndewd]

I'll assume you've never worked in sales, else you'd know that it is your job to sell the most expensive thing you can. How many people do you think are being 'advised' to buy the cheaper AMD systems? How many do you think are pressured into spending more on the intel?

It's got nothing to do with name recognition and everything to do with the bottom line for the seller. Even a bad salesperson could sell an intel for $50 more than an AMD. To stupid people that is.

I guess around 33% of your fellow Americans aren't quite so dumb, because they figured out the smarter choice. Then again how dumb is it really when we have otherwise intelligent people (ie yourself and a bunch of intel fanboys) who would still spend more cash simply for the intel sticker? That one is worth thinking about.

Actually jen, Americans arent any brighter than the rest of the world. Were well read on mainstream bullpucky but were allowing people like Obama to bring Cass sunstein in and question the premise of gun ownership and free speech. People in America are no more motivated to dig deeper for elaboration or5 even fact than any other nation and it applies to chips.

The priority of info is
the self
money
desires
wants
needs
how others serve the self image
family
how family serves the self image
sex
food
sleep
easy work
hobbies
fun
news
sitcoms
combativeness
actual chip tech is somewhere in the conspiracy theory zone, as well as perf numbers, Its doesnt say they are smart enough or not its just that they focus more on coca cola than reality. Or UFC or the current avatar of the year (blockbuster movie). Is America that shallow? very much so. the simple fact that in dire economic times we want to lend a hand to victims of haiti as well as other disaster victims is nice but that is one donation not persevering involvement for the most part.

Americans for the most part are so materialistic and superficial and blind , that its amazing we exist at all as a nation but were very good debt slaves so it serves the world bank and IMF to allow us to breathe.

 

[Mousemonkey]

but were very good debt slaves so it serves the world bank and IMF to allow us to breathe.

That and Jack Daniel's.

 

[jimmysmitty]

Sure most people have *heard* the name intel and most haven't heard AMD.

Given two identical pc's, that is why 99/100 would choose the intel. However, given $50 off the AMD, 99/100 would choose the AMD. That is the real strength of the intel brand.

People will pay $50 more for Apple (actually a lot more), more on designer clothes etc.

Yea. People will pay more for the brand name. They always do. Hell why do they pay more for a iPod when a Creative Labs MP3 player is the sme price or cheaper and gives the best sound quality? because Apple has the brand name and MARKETS.

Intel markets. People see the commercials on TV and when they go to a store see Intel and remember the add. They see AMD and can't seem to think of where they come from. the only average joe who will buy a AMD system is normally educated on PCs by an enthusiast who knows more than just marketing.

Please do post the link. And as I said before, AMD's other OEM customers were pretty upset with AMD after they got the Dell contract and shorted said other customers. It's rather simple business logic - if you know full well you cannot deliver on your contracts, then don't make them.

http://news.softpedia.com/news/AMD-Dell-Partnership-Isolates-System-Builders-39354.shtml

Note the article date is November of 2006. After Core 2 hit the market, AMD still had capacity problems.

Some AMD fans claim AMD is a loving company yet they left their loyal OEMs out to dry. They basically sold their soul to the Devil. Sounds like a mini Intel.

Weren't you the one suggesting that the new i3's and i5's were created for the business sector? That is where intel can command silly prices because of their brand.

If you think the general public would pay more for a dual core intel instead of a cheaper quad core AMD, you need a head examination - specifically a brain check to make sure you aren't missing one. 😀

Actually Intel probably does have the new i3s and i5s in mind for the business sector just like Nehalem was pointed towards the server markets. I am willing to bet that when a company upgrades in mass their work stations at say a call center, you will see Core i3 on the box since it will be in bulk and cheap.

I've seen 10% mentioned before.

10% is 1 in 10 programs, 99/100 of which the coder would have had no idea he was crippling AMD and Via processors by using intels compiler. More details will out during the case, and it's going to make for some uncomfortable reading for the intel fanboys I'm sure.

Problem is that a lot of people are using that 10% for every benchmark used by any site. But in the end they don't even know what compiler is used and I am willing to bet that most of the benchmark and programs use Microsofts compiler.

Sounds like a few of them may have been suffering from a poverty mentality, and buying Hyundai's and Kia's instead of Toyota's and Honda's. 😀

Hah. the smarter choice. Right now the best bet is a Ford frankly. They have been doing good. Better quality rating that Toyota, not taking bail outs and a hybrid thats just awesome. I want 41MPG.......

Did you know Ford has a Fiesta in Europe that gets 70MPG thats non hybrid? Lucky bastards....

jenny, the smarter shoice is dependant on your budget, not the company. If you have $4K for a PC then most likely that would be a Core i7 EE. If you have $1K then either a Core i5 or a Phenom II.

That and Jack Daniel's.

I prefer Vodka. Jack is too rough sometimes. Vodka or Capt Morgan.

 

[Mousemonkey]

I prefer Vodka. Jack is too rough sometimes. Vodka or Capt Morgan.

Morgans and Vodka tend to leave me with a headache but JD's doesn't which is the exact opposite that my best mate suffers, aren't people weird. :lol:

 

[verndewd]

Morgans and Vodka tend to leave me with a headache but JD's doesn't which is the exact opposite that my best mate suffers, aren't people weird. :lol:

ever clear is a non hangover for me, i like JD but it doesnt like me the next day :lol:

 

[Guest]

Lol I'd fall asleep way before I drank enough to get a hangover 😀

But hmm ye. Hard to beat wine as a tipple imo. Some drinks are just foul though, how can anybody like the taste of whisky or rum or tequila...or beer, or lager. Yuck you must have very different tastebuds from me.

 

[archibael]

I prefer my fruit juice unfermented, so wine is out for me.

I don't have a "cultured palate". If I want my head to feel fuzzy, I'd prefer to use the hard stuff.

 

[verndewd]

Lol I'd fall asleep way before I drank enough to get a hangover 😀

But hmm ye. Hard to beat wine as a tipple imo. Some drinks are just foul though, how can anybody like the taste of whisky or rum or tequila...or beer, or lager. Yuck you must have very different tastebuds from me.

sweet wines primarilly? I like dry dark reds , preferably old vine or ancient vine. Sineaen from owens rowe in the willamette valley , cline makes a decent top end old vine. Thats why french wines are so good and spendy. I bought a 1/4 case of sineaen at 35 bux a pop. I drank all but 2 bottles. I do enjoy good wine. Cheap wine just for the antioxidants in rough times.

I love chianti and many italian reds. French whites I can stand but american whites generally are either too sweet or tanneny.Dont put sweet in my booze.