how bad are mass market pcs? - hp (<$1700)

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rossbthompson

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Feb 13, 2006
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I am looking at a new gaming pc and have tried several sites configurations
abs,ibuypower,alienware
but it seems that the cheaper route might be to huff it down to compusa
and pick up the ($860 pc ) and add a 7800gtx ($450)

hp pc at compusa
hp
x2 4200+
1GB
250GB HD
dvd+-

It doesnt feel right, but are there any real reasons to not do this. I dont plan on doing the whole sli route, i want an os, no overclocking for me.

plan on playing bf2 and want to spend <$1700

Thanks for your input
 
The problem with a lot of these computers like HP is that they sometimes come with proprietary hardware, that can make upgrading later a pain. Also a lot of them come with a ton of adware. If you build it yourself, you know exactly what you've got in it. If you don't want to build it yourself, you can have someone custom build it for you but be very carefull because there are some really disreputable people out there. The last assembled PC I bought was from jncs.com. They sent all the boxes and manuals for the various pieces parts and the machine worked out of the box. If you call and tell them how you'll use the machine, they'll recommend one. I recently called about a laptop and they recommended their least expensive one, which is kind of impressive. Building it yourself is fun, pretty easy, and first time might take you 2 hours or so not counting installing the OS and programs. Some good how to articles on the Net and you can get a lot of help here.
 
Well companies like HP and Dell often load Windows XP with a crapload of unnecessary software that bogs down your system as opposed to a barebones Windows XP load.

I cannot say much for their choice of hardware like PSUs, memory etc. These companies will skimp wherever they can to make a buck. They have to so they can pay their "Tech Support" guys.

For less than $1700 YOU can build yourself a fine system from scratch, ie not from ABS, Alienware or CompUSA.

There are plenty of guys on these forums that can assist you in building a system that will own a cookie cutter system.

EDIT - g-paw beat me to it. :lol:
 
Dude,

Build it!!! This is the best and possibly worst advice i could give anyone with a technical clue.

It will be fun finding your equipment for the right price. Making sure you don't hear any issues with Hardware compatability. Purchasing smart to get the retail versus OEM parts on the correct items (retail CPU and HDD as a start).

It could be the worst (depending how you look at it) because it can be a lot of hours working through issues with the setup and drivers. For me this is still the fun part and is only a pain when it lasts too long.

You will always get more for less when you build and sometimes better waranties (5 years on most HDDs). You just gotta know it is your HDD that has failed.

Build it!!
 
I am looking at a new gaming pc and have tried several sites configurations
abs,ibuypower,alienware
but it seems that the cheaper route might be to huff it down to compusa
and pick up the ($860 pc ) and add a 7800gtx ($450)

hp pc at compusa
hp
x2 4200+
1GB
250GB HD
dvd+-

It doesnt feel right, but are there any real reasons to not do this. I dont plan on doing the whole sli route, i want an os, no overclocking for me.

plan on playing bf2 and want to spend <$1700

Thanks for your input
Click to expand...

BAD enouff to stay a way from them!

Built it.

1. Undersized Power Supply
2. propriatory hardware with limited upgredability
3. limited BIOS upgredability
4. propriatory or modiffied OS non transferable from OEM PC to others
5. Full load of crap unwanted, not needed
6. shoddy warranty service next to help yourself!
7. Waste of money on propriatory Logos!

For the U$ 1700 dollars you can get a bunch of experience building yourself, the way you like it and want it, buying only the best components of your desire!
 
Not to minimize the problems Ches111 points out, sh*t does happen, the only time I really had a problem was when the MOBO was bad and took me a long time to figure that out. If you buy name brand pieces parts, read the directions, and use a newly formated hard drive, you shouldn't really run into many problems. One reason I like MSI MOBOs is that there documentation and web site are good. Defintely would want to have access to a second computer so if you run into a problem, you can get on the Net to solve it. Usually just go the web site of the company whose part your having a problem with. Once you install the OS the first thing you want to do is update all the drivers and this is a snap with MSI.
 
If you plan on opt'ing for the pre-built route, atleast get dell'd! "Dude, You're gettin a Dell!"

But like the rest of the post above say, for 1700 bucks you could build a computer that would smoke that HP. And if you're not sure how to build it, there is about 1.2 bazillion how to build a computer guides out there :lol:
 
The BETTER components of which he speaks is absolutely true.

Youo can have better video speed/resolutions, HDD speed, memory speed, audio... You name it and still come in less than the comparable (not really) OTS "off the shelf" PC.

The power supply issue is also becoming a very big problem. Many vendors tend to run short/hot on the power supplies that they provide. Given the power hungry new video cards and newer multi-core procs you could run into issues.

Year = 1992, Time = Christmas, Publication = Consumer Repor_s, Article = Says best thing since sliced bread, Actual computer with 145W power supply = Infant mortality in over 50% of delivered PCs. All this adds up to a disaster.
 
definetly build it yourself you will get a way better pc for the same price just open a new topic saying building a sys for 1700 or whatever price you want to spend on it and you will get a load of suggestions.
 
Also,

THG and Google groups is your friend when building a PC and running into a problem. Just use the correct searches for what you need like:

+MSI +"motherboard identifier" +"accurate problem description"
 
to re-iterate what people have said..

cons:
- not easily upgradeable. In 1yr you have a doorstop.
- underpowered hardware, cant play current games.
- lots of extras you dont want

pros
- works good with web surfing + email
- warranty
- no installation


my take on the mass market PC is that they are great if you never want to upgrade, and you never want to install any large applications (games).

but if you dont want the learning experiance of building it yourself - go visit dell.
 
I would get an X2 3800+ system custom built @ a local chop and have them throw an x1900xt in it. Should be well within budget.
 
Here's a system I just designed for under $1700 (without monitor)

NZXT Lexa Black/ Silver Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 500 WATT PS2 ATX 12V 2.0 Power Supply - Retail $179

ASUS A8N5X Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail $86.99

ASUS EN7800GTX/2DHTV/256 Geforce 7800GTX 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail $472

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Manchester 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Dual Core Processor Model ADA4200BVBOX - Retail $362

Patriot Dual Channel 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 600 (PC 4800) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model PDC1G4800+XBLK - Retail (Verified 2-2-2-5 timing at DDR 400) $162.50

Western Digital Raptor WD360GD 36.7GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM $101 (x2 for 74GB RAID stripe $202)

Rosewill RK650 Silver/Black USB Slim Keyboard - Retail $10.99

Rosewill RM2060 Silver/Black 5 Buttons 4 direct tilt scroll wheel USB Laser Mouse - Retail $9.99

NEC Black IDE/ATAPI DVD Burner Model ND-3550A - OEM CD-R/W DVD+/- RW DL $38.99

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail $121.99

Total $1545.95 ($1646.95 w/second HD) + shipping

obviously, you can adjust any or all of those items to raise or lower the price and customize parts for color theme or max performance and whatnot. Plus as you can see, this way you definately know what components are in your box and if they are crap or not. Mass market PCs tend to be made of crap in order to offer a nice price tag to lure customers and still make profit especially in the area of motherboards, RAM, hard drives and powersupplies. You will never see a mass market pc tell you exactly what models of these items are inside except for the alienwares out there who then charge you more money simply because they put it in there instead of you. If you match up a system you build yourself component for component you will find that for pretty much the same cost you will have a much more high quality system overall.

Also, unless you plan to do some heavy multi tasking (encoding video files in the background while you play BF2), that dual core processor really isn't going to do much for you. You could get a buttkicking athlon 64 3500 cheaper and still have top of the line performance without quite as much cost.
 
Everything that you all have said is perfectly right but if I can give some advice, check local PC shops and install XP (or whatever you use) yourself. Sometimes custom PC shops can have better value in one package than if you sourced the items individually, not knocking everyone elses suggestions though.
 
If you have a friend or aquaintance who's built a PC, talk to them about recomendations and then invite them over when you're ready to build. A lot of us would be happy to spend a couple hours helping someone build a PC. In fact I will be doing just that with The Kids piano teacher. In my case the help won't be for free, I work for beer.
 
I've done it three ways, and it really depends on what you want.
After building dozens of PCs as a tech, but also including my own (pretty much the whole x86 family), I got a little tired of it. I bought a Compaq desktop in '99 or 2000 that performed reliably and consistently for years until recent HDD problems laid it low. I had to clean a lot of initial crapware off of it, but other than that it was very trouble free. I was not a gamer at that time, and its performance at business apps, email and surfing was just fine.
When I got more interested in gaming, I spec'ed a system from a boutique vendor a couple of years ago so I'd know what I got was tested and not loaded with adware. It wasn't too expensive but could run anything I wanted at the time (mostly UT G.O.T.Y). I'd say I still have it, but only the case and drives survived a PSU failure that croaked the mobo and video card, so I replaced those. This machine is now my backup.
My current PC is one modeled after the article on THG on building a budget gamer, although I made a few changes that moved the price up a few hundred. My primary game is Guild Wars, so the 6600 is sufficient for now, but I can always easily replace it later.
SO...
If your requirements are fairly static and you don't want to be bothered with details (unlikely since you're here), buying one works. The extra money you spend won't improve the parts, but might buy some peace of mind and save you some time up front.
If, however, you anticipate wanting to put on the latest game or who knows what, and want full control over the type and quality of parts, and don't want to wade through shlockware, then building it makes more sense. You can even get some of the same peace of mind this way, by dealing with a good supplier (like Newegg), and building in high tolerance, like a larger PSU and extra cooling.
 
Check out xicomputer.com They seem to offer a pretty good machine with quality parts for about what your looking to spend.
 
Here's a system I just designed for under $1700 (without monitor)

NZXT Lexa Black/ Silver Aluminum ATX Mid Tower Computer Case 500 WATT PS2 ATX 12V 2.0 Power Supply - Retail $179

ASUS A8N5X Socket 939 NVIDIA nForce4 ATX AMD Motherboard - Retail $86.99

ASUS EN7800GTX/2DHTV/256 Geforce 7800GTX 256MB GDDR3 PCI Express x16 Video Card - Retail $472

AMD Athlon 64 X2 4200+ Manchester 1GHz FSB Socket 939 Dual Core Processor Model ADA4200BVBOX - Retail $362

Patriot Dual Channel 1GB (2 x 512MB) 184-Pin DDR SDRAM DDR 600 (PC 4800) Unbuffered Dual Channel Kit System Memory Model PDC1G4800+XBLK - Retail (Verified 2-2-2-5 timing at DDR 400) $162.50

Western Digital Raptor WD360GD 36.7GB 10,000 RPM Serial ATA150 Hard Drive - OEM $101 (x2 for 74GB RAID stripe $202)

Rosewill RK650 Silver/Black USB Slim Keyboard - Retail $10.99

Rosewill RM2060 Silver/Black 5 Buttons 4 direct tilt scroll wheel USB Laser Mouse - Retail $9.99

NEC Black IDE/ATAPI DVD Burner Model ND-3550A - OEM CD-R/W DVD+/- RW DL $38.99

Creative Sound Blaster X-Fi XtremeMusic 7.1 Channels PCI Interface Sound Card - Retail $121.99

Total $1545.95 ($1646.95 w/second HD) + shipping

obviously, you can adjust any or all of those items to raise or lower the price and customize parts for color theme or max performance and whatnot. Plus as you can see, this way you definately know what components are in your box and if they are crap or not. Mass market PCs tend to be made of crap in order to offer a nice price tag to lure customers and still make profit especially in the area of motherboards, RAM, hard drives and powersupplies. You will never see a mass market pc tell you exactly what models of these items are inside except for the alienwares out there who then charge you more money simply because they put it in there instead of you. If you match up a system you build yourself component for component you will find that for pretty much the same cost you will have a much more high quality system overall.

Also, unless you plan to do some heavy multi tasking (encoding video files in the background while you play BF2), that dual core processor really isn't going to do much for you. You could get a buttkicking athlon 64 3500 cheaper and still have top of the line performance without quite as much cost.
Click to expand...


Thats a great system. I normally recommend Dell as a good buy, but with the buget of 1700 you can really build a kick ass system. I usually deal with clients with a buget of 600 or 700 so with what they want a Dell is usually a good way to go. Also the outlet for them has some great deals. But the above system is nice!!
 
If you are comfortable with building the machine yourself that is the way you will want to go for a few good reasons:

1. You can get a PSU that is high quality, and won't fail or render you unable to add devices. (My cousin bought a compaq on a budget, and later tried to add a DVD burner and his PSU wasn't strong enough to handle the additional load (was only 200W or 230W on a Athlon 64 3400 system....WTF)

2. You can take advantage of higher performance methods, like RAID 0 or RAID 5 (on some motherboards or cheap raid cards), although I have seen some vendors market this in their systems.

3. You can absolutely ensure that you have a motherboard that will be able to last at least a year or two before being obsolete. (make sure if you go athlon you get a 939 that will do Athlon64 and X2) .

4. You can get low timing ram that is nice quality with a latency along the 2-2-2-5 line. (playing high performance games and apps, this actually makes a differnce)

5. You can customize and buy a sweet looking case (or custom made case if you have the bucks for it) that look awesome and don't have junk airflow designs.

6. You can get more than the standard 1yr warranty for high fail items (like the hard drives, since they are the HIGHEST FAIL ITEM in a computer. 5 yr. warranties on most retail Sata II drives is NICE)

My thoughts.
 
ok dude's he want's to know how bad are mass market pc's you want an answer look at dell they suck now techsupport is outsourced they're pcs are crap that break easy and the worst part is they get tax breaks from the government and use that money not to help they're worker's no those tax breaks go into michael dell's pocket! same with hp now they used to be good when they teamed up with amd in 03 and 04 for the a64 but now same as dell going down the drain they make pc's. compare ibuypower an ok pc vendor to hp .I once helped a friend buy a laptop from ibuypower for 1 grand it came with corsair ram! and seagate harddrive but the the hp he had before same specs more expensive came with cheap generic ram and the harrdrive was a maxtor! so long story short corporate america is sh!t
list of the worst mass market pc vendor's
1. dell(tech support and bad products)
2. gateway(same as dell)
3. hp(smae as dell though their pc's are slightly better)
4.emachines/compaq(cheaply made and better tech support than dell)

now the best mass market are
1.lenovo(Ibm remember)
2.apple(good tech support)
3.toshiba(same as apple)
4.fujitsu(look at apple)
5.sony(ok tech but cheap warranty)
how do i know you ask go to geeksqaud and ask them what kind of pc they fix the most.
 
DVDPdiddy,

Man you have issues... Telling people that Dell is crap? Dell is the last mainstream online vendor to not completely sell out in the hardware department. Do you read some of your own posts?

Their is a reason the really intelligent people at the local Best Buy (written with tongue in cheek) are saying that they fix more Dell computers. There are more of them out there to fix. You do remember that Dell is the largest online retailer of PCs, right?

I still do not agree with buying a Dell, if you know how to do the build yourself. But you could do a lot worse. Dell (although OEM) tend to use upgraded OEM equipment especially when building their gaming systems. They still use the faster memory (both system and video).

Anyways, OP a couple more reasons to build it yourself...

In the PC industry it has been long well known the difference between what we call White box (OEM available) and Retail parts. Many OEM parts would ship (for cheaper) with slower core speeds, slower memory speeds, and shorter warranties. Most/Many of the OTS (Off the Shelf) vendors use these lower quality/slower components.

These same lower quality components can be purchased by you too. Not that you would want to but sometimes people will mis-represent their equipment. That is why it is important to use online vendors like NEWEGG since they fully represent what they are selling (you know in advance that it is OEM or Retail).

This OEM vs Retail thing is something to really watch while building. Some things are surely easier to purchase the OEM/cheaper version. Sometimes with little to no worries about long term availability or loss of performance. For instance, most would not worry about buying an OEM soundcard. Most would worry about an OEM processor/memory/HDD.

Sorry for the long post.... Just trying to help if I can. When you help others the computer karma comes back to you ten fold 🙂
 
I just checked out jncs.com, ibuypower.com, and xicomputer.com. I have never been to any of those sites before. jncs.com, and ibuypower.com had nearly the same price for equivalent mid-range equipment (SLI capable MB, X2 3800, 6600GT, 480+ PS, 2 HDD's, 2 opticals, KB, mouse, cool case, etc....) both around $1300. Not bad. I guesstimate I could build this for about $1200. I may buy there instead of building my next one (sacrilege!) I have only purchased one (personal) computer in my life. The other 10 have been purchased a piece at a time. I currently have 5 computers networked in my house including one wireless laptop, so there are no arguments. Everybody has one.

Of course having the ability to build and troublshoot them means I get to build and/or fix every computer within 100 miles. Maybe that's because I don't charge since I keep the old parts to build (slow) computers that are given to needy children in my wifes school (she's a teacher). Believe it or not I had to go in front of the school board to get permission to GIVE computers away. Now they have asked me to teach a summer school class on how to build/repair computers. Wierd.

xicomputer.com had a much higher price, by about $400.
 
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