[SOLVED] How to stop i7 12700H from Power limit throttling?

Anuj jena

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Hello guys,
ASUS Tuf F15, i7 12700H, RTX 3060. While "Plugged in" and gaming.

From my observation, the dropping of i7 12700H power consumption from 45 to 25 Watts, happens only when the battery drops from 100% to 99% while gaming when plugged in. Which causes the reduction of total power draw.

The screenshots below show the average power of CPU and GPU before and after the battery reaches 99%, you can see the battery level in the last column.
Avg clock speed of the CPU decreases as well.

This causes a performance drop in every game significantly.
The CPU Electrical design point becomes "YES" when the battery drops to 99%.

BIOS is Updated.
Drivers are updated.
Win 11 Home
Performance power plan
Basics covered.

Any way to fix this?


 

uWebb429

Estimable
@Anuj jena
I just had a better look at your screenshots. It is not power limit throttling, it is EDP throttling. These two types of throttling are completely different.

In ThrottleStop, check the MMIO Lock box and set Power Limit 4 in the TPL window to a value of 0. This can help with some types of EDP throttling.

Unfortunately, these 12th Gen CPUs are locked down so there is no way to increase the IccMax value in the FIVR window. You might be out of luck fixing this broken by design laptop.

Look at the max cpu temperatures.
His screenshot shows that it is not a thermal throttling problem. It is an EDP throttling problem. This is caused by Power Limit 4 being set too low or IccMax for the core and the cache being set too low.

Post a screenshot of the FIVR window so I can see how low IccMax is. You can use the Lock option beside Power Limit 4 to prevent your computer from changing this. It is still likely that the EC will use another method to limit the current.
 

Ralston18

Titan
Moderator
What tool or utility is the source of the screenshot?

Look for something else that may be happening when the battery drops to 99%.

You can use Task Manager, Resource Monitor, and Process Explorer to do so.

Use all three but only one tool at a time.

Process Explorer is Microsoft and free.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/process-explorer

It may take both trial and error plus some time and effort to spot something - no need to rush and be methodical.
 

Anuj jena

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What tool or utility is the source of the screenshot?

Look for something else that may be happening when the battery drops to 99%.

You can use Task Manager, Resource Monitor, and Process Explorer to do so.

Use all three but only one tool at a time.

Process Explorer is Microsoft and free.

https://docs.microsoft.com/en-us/sysinternals/downloads/process-explorer

It may take both trial and error plus some time and effort to spot something - no need to rush and be methodical.
Used HWinfo to monitor and log the performance/usage metrics while gaming.
And then in the log sheet calculated the avg power consumption before and after the battery charge is at 99%.

The laptop was plugged in and charging the entire time.
 

Anuj jena

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The log sheet actually being a spreadsheet of some sort into which you are manually entering data being read from HWinfo?

This HWiNFO?

https://hwinfo32.en.uptodown.com/windows
Yes, thats the HWinfo.

The log sheet is editable, and to calculate the average value of a column you just need to select the rows of the column you want to find the avg of and it will show the average value.

You can check the full log here
https://www.asuswebstorage.com/navigate/a/#/s/59ACC3A6A2AD4438AD18287CFBDB36A8W
 

Ralston18

Titan
Moderator
Preview failed. And as a matter of personal practice I do not download such files anyway.

Is that Charge Level change from 100% to 99% really happening or even meaningful - perhaps some margin of error, rounding, etc.? You show 3 decimal places in the other columns...

Beyond that, I am going to set aside any questions/concerns about the data being collected, calculated, and analyzed.

= = = =

What games are you playing and what hardware specs do those games require?

Likely there is some hardware listing in the form of "minimal", "recommended', and "best". You do not want minimal and you do want as much best as you can afford. Consider that the games being played are near or at the limits of the laptop.

My overall thought being that the laptop is throttling down/ power limiting in order to protect itself.

Overriding or otherwise stopping that from happening may end badly.

Try to discover what happens or starts happening when the battery drops. (Again, is that 100% to 99% meaningful? I do not know.)

You noted that the CPU power draw reduces.

So what is the CPU doing or trying to do when that happens? Or maybe stopped doing.

Look for other changes that may be occurring.
 

Anuj jena

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The CPU power draw is at 45 Watts only
Preview failed. And as a matter of personal practice I do not download such files anyway.

Is that Charge Level change from 100% to 99% really happening or even meaningful - perhaps some margin of error, rounding, etc.? You show 3 decimal places in the other columns...

Beyond that, I am going to set aside any questions/concerns about the data being collected, calculated, and analyzed.

= = = =

What games are you playing and what hardware specs do those games require?

Likely there is some hardware listing in the form of "minimal", "recommended', and "best". You do not want minimal and you do want as much best as you can afford. Consider that the games being played are near or at the limits of the laptop.

My overall thought is that the laptop is throttling down/ power limiting in order to protect itself.

Overriding or otherwise stopping that from happening may end badly.

Try to discover what happens or starts happening when the battery drops. (Again, is that 100% to 99% meaningful? I do not know.)

You noted that the CPU power draw reduces.

So what is the CPU doing or trying to do when that happens? Or maybe stopped doing.

Look for other changes that may be occurring.
The laptop is TUF F15
i7 12700H
RTX 3060 (140W).

When the battery charge is at 100% It runs Warzone at 120 FPS, but if charge is not at 100% the FPS drops to 80.

The CPU power draw is at 45 Watts only when the laptop charge is at 100%.

Anything below 100% the CPU gets limited to 25- 28 Watts.

I have tested the same games with two other laptops, one with i7 11th CPU and another with Ryzen 5800H. Both the laptops maintain a consistent CPU power draw of above 45 Watts regardless of the battery level.

What I dont understand is why is the 12th CPU doing this?
The moment charge is not at 100% CPU performance drops.
 

Anuj jena

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Anyway, @Ralston18 , thank you for trying to help me.
I really appreciate it.

It seems this issue is with 12th Gen 12700H processors, as I have seen a couple of other posts where the OP has faced a similar issue to mine but, wasn't able to figure out what caused the performance drop.

If you come across any post or anyone with 12700H process laptop, ask them about the charge level of the laptop.

Thanks.
 
You can use Throttlestop with limits open, and run your program, then it will tell you what's causing it. PL1/PL2/EDP or other.

You can also use Throttlestop/XTU and change the PL1/PL2 values to 45w and 65w and see if that changes or helps anything.

edit: you can run a game in windowed mode, and run TS with limits along side it to see.
 

Anuj jena

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12700H unfortunately does not support Throttlestop's undervolting features.

I had tried to set limits to the PL1 and PL2 values using XTU, still the same results.

Well, setting limits to pl1 and pl2 will set a top limit, which will prevent the CPU exceeding the said limit.
 

Anuj jena

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I think the new beta supports 12th gen. What exact wattage did you try to apply?
Throttlestop supports 12th gen, unfortunately its the otherway around, the 12700H does not support voltage modification.
So everything appears greyed out on Throttlestop.

Using XTU I had tried a wide range of Wattage.

Only setting the limit to 30W PL1 and PL2 did not drain the battery as that is the lowest setting and the CPU limits itself to when the battery is not at 100% charge.
 

geofelt

Titan
In windows power management,
I think the plan will default to balanced(vs. performance)
When running on battery, graphics and processor will use less power and perform slower to extend battery life.
The integrated graphics will be used.
When plugged in, the discrete gpu and max performance will be enabled.
Unfortunately, most laptop coolers are too small, light, and weak to do a good job of cooling.
When the cpu temperature hits 100c, you will throttle and slow down until the situation reverses.

What can you do??
You can verify that your fans are running and that your cooling airways are clear.

You can try to limit the cpu performance from 100% down to 99%
see if that helps.
 

Anuj jena

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In windows power management,
I think the plan will default to balanced(vs. performance)
When running on battery, graphics and processor will use less power and perform slower to extend battery life.
The integrated graphics will be used.
When plugged in, the discrete gpu and max performance will be enabled.
Unfortunately, most laptop coolers are too small, light, and weak to do a good job of cooling.
When the cpu temperature hits 100c, you will throttle and slow down until the situation reverses.

What can you do??
You can verify that your fans are running and that your cooling airways are clear.

You can try to limit the CPU performance from 100% down to 99%
see if that helps.
Its not running on battery, this happens when the battery is anything less than 100%, i.e. be it 99 or 98 or 80, while the charger is plugged in, charging, and gaming.

The airways everything is clear as it's a 2-week-old laptop and I had ASUS replace the motherboard as we thought the CPU was defective, turns out the new one
has the exact issue.

Yeah, in the powerplan I had the Max and Min CPU states to 99% and still the issue persits.

Is it possible for you to check if this problem is with the 12th gen series, ? If anyone you know or you have a 12th gen gaming laptop?
 

uWebb429

Estimable
if this problem is with the 12th gen series
I highly doubt it. Intel does not sell 45W CPUs that can only run at 30W. This sounds like something Asus would do. They are likely using an embedded controller (EC) that sends a 30W turbo power limit to the CPU as soon as the battery is anything les than 100%.

Sounds like horrible design. If the CPU cannot run at its 45W rating, why not return it for a refund ? It is defective by design.

In the ThrottleStop TPL window if you have the MSR PL1 and PL2 both set to at least 45W and the MMIO Lock box is checked and you are still getting power limit throttling at only 30W, that is usually a sign of EC throttling.

Exit Intel XTU and only run ThrottleStop 9.5. Check MMIO Lock and check the log file option. Go play a game for at least 15 minutes or until you experience this throttling problem. When finished testing, exit ThrottleStop so it can finalize the log file. Copy and paste the log file data to www.pastebin.com and post a link so I can have a look. Upload some ThrottleStop screenshots to www.imgur.com
 

geofelt

Titan
I doubt it has anything to do with 12tg gen processors.
More likely with the asus bios defaults.
Run hwmonitor while gaming.
Look at the max cpu temperatures.
If some cores are in red at 100c. it means you have throttled because of heat.
Verify that the cpu cooler fans are running full out.

I hear about performance issues from many that try to game on a high powered laptop.
My sense is that this is a widespread issue.
See if there is a Asus laptop forum where others with your particular model may have relevant posts.
 

uWebb429

Estimable
@Anuj jena
I just had a better look at your screenshots. It is not power limit throttling, it is EDP throttling. These two types of throttling are completely different.

In ThrottleStop, check the MMIO Lock box and set Power Limit 4 in the TPL window to a value of 0. This can help with some types of EDP throttling.

Unfortunately, these 12th Gen CPUs are locked down so there is no way to increase the IccMax value in the FIVR window. You might be out of luck fixing this broken by design laptop.

Look at the max cpu temperatures.
His screenshot shows that it is not a thermal throttling problem. It is an EDP throttling problem. This is caused by Power Limit 4 being set too low or IccMax for the core and the cache being set too low.

Post a screenshot of the FIVR window so I can see how low IccMax is. You can use the Lock option beside Power Limit 4 to prevent your computer from changing this. It is still likely that the EC will use another method to limit the current.
 

Anuj jena

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Damn.. EC limiting, sounds shady but the only explanation.

Sending shortly
I highly doubt it. Intel does not sell 45W CPUs that can only run at 30W. This sounds like something Asus would do. They are likely using an embedded controller (EC) that sends a 30W turbo power limit to the CPU as soon as the battery is anything les than 100%.

Sounds like horrible design. If the CPU cannot run at its 45W rating, why not return it for a refund ? It is defective by design.

In the ThrottleStop TPL window if you have the MSR PL1 and PL2 both set to at least 45W and the MMIO Lock box is checked and you are still getting power limit throttling at only 30W, that is usually a sign of EC throttling.

Exit Intel XTU and only run ThrottleStop 9.5. Check MMIO Lock and check the log file option. Go play a game for at least 15 minutes or until you experience this throttling problem. When finished testing, exit ThrottleStop so it can finalize the log file. Copy and paste the log file data to www.pastebin.com and post a link so I can have a look. Upload some ThrottleStop screenshots to www.imgur.com
 

Anuj jena

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@Anuj jena
I just had a better look at your screenshots. It is not power limit throttling, it is EDP throttling. These two types of throttling are completely different.

In ThrottleStop, check the MMIO Lock box and set Power Limit 4 in the TPL window to a value of 0. This can help with some types of EDP throttling.

Unfortunately, these 12th Gen CPUs are locked down so there is no way to increase the IccMax value in the FIVR window. You might be out of luck fixing this broken by design laptop.


His screenshot shows that it is not a thermal throttling problem. It is an EDP throttling problem. This is caused by Power Limit 4 being set too low or IccMax for the core and the cache being set too low.

Post a screenshot of the FIVR window so I can see how low IccMax is. You can use the Lock option beside Power Limit 4 to prevent your computer from changing this. It is still likely that the EC will use another method to limit the current.
View: https://imgur.com/HvRZnGe

View: https://imgur.com/8jE2qkT


Here are the screenshots of TPL and FIVR window
 

Anuj jena

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https://1drv.ms/x/s!AlU83a9kbs9VuQIHF_kIUCDF-4dK?e=XzGZmf

Heres
@Anuj jena
I just had a better look at your screenshots. It is not power limit throttling, it is EDP throttling. These two types of throttling are completely different.

In ThrottleStop, check the MMIO Lock box and set Power Limit 4 in the TPL window to a value of 0. This can help with some types of EDP throttling.

Unfortunately, these 12th Gen CPUs are locked down so there is no way to increase the IccMax value in the FIVR window. You might be out of luck fixing this broken by design laptop.


His screenshot shows that it is not a thermal throttling problem. It is an EDP throttling problem. This is caused by Power Limit 4 being set too low or IccMax for the core and the cache being set too low.

Post a screenshot of the FIVR window so I can see how low IccMax is. You can use the Lock option beside Power Limit 4 to prevent your computer from changing this. It is still likely that the EC will use another method to limit the current.
Here is HWinfo Log, in the meantime
https://1drv.ms/x/s!AlU83a9kbs9VuQIHF_kIUCDF-4dK?e=XzGZmf

Scrolldown to Row 893, that is when the charge level hits 99%

Will send the Throttlestop log shortly
 

Anuj jena

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DATE TIME MULTI C0% CKMOD BAT_mW TEMP VID POWER2022-07- - Pastebin.com
@Anuj jena
I just had a better look at your screenshots. It is not power limit throttling, it is EDP throttling. These two types of throttling are completely different.

In ThrottleStop, check the MMIO Lock box and set Power Limit 4 in the TPL window to a value of 0. This can help with some types of EDP throttling.

Unfortunately, these 12th Gen CPUs are locked down so there is no way to increase the IccMax value in the FIVR window. You might be out of luck fixing this broken by design laptop.


His screenshot shows that it is not a thermal throttling problem. It is an EDP throttling problem. This is caused by Power Limit 4 being set too low or IccMax for the core and the cache being set too low.

Post a screenshot of the FIVR window so I can see how low IccMax is. You can use the Lock option beside Power Limit 4 to prevent your computer from changing this. It is still likely that the EC will use another method to limit the current.
DATE TIME MULTI C0% CKMOD BAT_mW TEMP VID POWER2022-07- - Pastebin.com

Here's the Throttlestop log, the battery level is below 100% thats why CPU is limited the in entire log: EDP.
 
Last edited:

uWebb429

Estimable
Usually setting Power Limit 4 to a value of 0 tells the CPU to ignore this limit. You can also try setting this to the max, 1023, just in case something might have changed for the 12th Gen.

16 Watts... WTF
Looking more and more like a really poorly engineered laptop from Asus. Intel says the 12700H has a 45W TDP rating and a Maximum Turbo Rating of 115W.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/132228/intel-core-i712700h-processor-24m-cache-up-to-4-70-ghz.html

The Minimum Assured Power is listed as 35W. The EDP throttling has your 12700H running at 25W. Based on that, I would contact Asus and get them to explain why your 12700H can not run at the published Intel spec. It seems like false advertising.

The low ball power consumption when the battery is not installed is definitely hinting at how the EC has been programmed by Asus.

In the ThrottleStop Options window, if you check Battery Monitoring, it should show in the log file whether the battery is charging or discharging.
 
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Anuj jena

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Usually setting Power Limit 4 to a value of 0 tells the CPU to ignore this limit. You can also try setting this to the max, 1023, just in case something might have changed for the 12th Gen.


Looking more and more like a really poorly engineered laptop from Asus. Intel says the 12700H has a 45W TDP rating and a Maximum Turbo Rating of 115W.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/us/en/ark/products/132228/intel-core-i712700h-processor-24m-cache-up-to-4-70-ghz.html

The Minimum Assured Power is listed as 35W. The EDP throttling has your 12700H running at 25W. Based on that, I would contact Asus and get them to explain why your 12700H can not run at the published Intel spec. It seems like false advertising.

The low ball power consumption when the battery is not installed is definitely hinting at how the EC has been programmed by Asus.

In the ThrottleStop Options window, if you check Battery Monitoring, it should show in the log file whether the battery is charging or discharging.
When the battery is not at 100% and gaming the battery does charge.
I had attached the HWinfo log in a previous comment you can see the charge rate in that.

I have booked a Technician visit from Asus, whats your suggestion, how should I proceed with explaining them the issue?

I am from India, so I am 100% sure the technician will be a dumb ass, so I will have to carefully show him selective parts so that he will be convinced that its a laptop issue.
 

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