HT for Yonah

[Action_Man]

<A HREF="http://www.tomshardware.com/hardnews/20050602_143758.html" target="_new">Clicky</A>

Does this mean the pipeline has been lengthened?

Some people are like slinkies....
Not really good for anything but you cant help smile when you see one tumble down the stairs.

 

[HansGruber]

Considering the amount of innovation in Yonah, it is almost surprising that Intel's first Yonah processor will not be able to run 64-bit applications. We also remember former chief technology officer Pat Gelsinger urging software developers to work on 64-bit applications "now" not too long ago.

32bits only ?? Looks like AMD really caught Intel with their pants down..

 

[P4Man]

>Does this mean the pipeline has been lengthened?

No, though its still possible they did strech the pipeline a bit. I do find it very surprising Yonah would have HT though. HT is a fairly significant change to the Dothan core, where I expected mostly a slightly reworked Dothan core. If you are doing this much redesign, it makes no sense not to include AMD64 as well. A shame really, Yonah looks nice, but 32 bit only is going to be a tough sell I think in 12 months. I wonder if its in there, but disabled to protect P4 and even Xeon sales for as long as is needed (Merom/Conroe). Yonah could be quite an excellent server cpu.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[slvr_phoenix]

Meh. Chances are the project has just been under development for a while now, where HT existed when development started, but x86-64 didn't (or wasn't deemed important by Intel at that time anyway). I'm (fairly) sure that the next core rev will solve this. It's really likely just a matter of timing. Sometimes timing is everything.

<pre><font color=orange><i>Jesters do oft prove prophets.</i> -Regan in
King Lear (Act V, Scene iii) by William Shakespear</font color=orange></pre><p>@ 189K -> 200,000 miles or bust!

 

[Xeon]

A tough sell in 12 months what the heck are you talking about? Did I miss something did laptops become super computers that need 2+Gig’s of system memory for excel and PowerPoint presentations? As well it’s been nearly 2 years since AMD64 has been out and still seeing jack squat for 64bit software out there.

Might take you a while to realize this but the market doesn’t seem to be responding to the 64bit move. Dell doesn’t appear to be pushing it, at least on the desktop, and when you think about it, that’s saying a lot.

-Jeremy Dach

 

[TechMan]

Consider 12 months from product release, not 12 months from now. Keyword - Longhorn. Who in his right mind will buy a hardware, a notebook at that, that cannot run the latest Windows?

On Cache and Bandwidth:
You do mean cash, and fan width goes to Intel right? - endyen 05

 

[P4Man]

>A tough sell in 12 months what the heck are you talking
>about? Did I miss something did laptops become super >computers that need 2+Gig’s of system memory for excel and
>PowerPoint presentations?

Does Excel and powerpoint require or even benefit from having two cores perhaps ? If your requirements are that basic, there is no need to buy a new Yonah laptop in the first place. Any 1 GHz machine will do just fine.

Besides, the real issue is people will be reluctant to pay top dollars for a high end system that is unable to even run last years windows.

>Might take you a while to realize this but the market
>doesn’t seem to be responding to the 64bit move.

The market is buying 64 bit cpu's by the millions. People are trying out and using 64 bit windows today, in 12 months they will demand it, and certainly expect their newly purchased machine to be able to run it within its lifetime.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[slvr_phoenix]

Who in his right mind will buy a hardware, a notebook at that, that cannot run the latest Windows?

**ROFL** Are you kidding? There are still plenty of people running Win98 and WinME. I'd dare say that most WinXP users haven't even installed SP1 yet, not to mention SP2. Joe Blow doesn't care about the OS at all. All he cares about are the end products, the software and hardware that he perceives as using, not the middlewares that his end products rely upon.

<pre><font color=orange><i>Jesters do oft prove prophets.</i> -Regan in
King Lear (Act V, Scene iii) by William Shakespear</font color=orange></pre><p>@ 189K -> 200,000 miles or bust!

 

[Xeon]

Consider 12 months from product release, not 12 months from now. Keyword - Longhorn. Who in his right mind will buy a hardware, a notebook at that, that cannot run the latest Windows?

So you’re saying you know what Longhorns minimum requirements are?

Does Excel and powerpoint require or even benefit from having two cores perhaps ? If your requirements are that basic, there is no need to buy a new Yonah laptop in the first place. Any 1 GHz machine will do just fine.

Besides, the real issue is people will be reluctant to pay top dollars for a high end system that is unable to even run last years windows.

What your point you clearly said "Yonah looks nice, but 32 bit only is going to be a tough sell I think in 12 months." So fill me in what’s your point I made mine you haven't made yours.

The market is buying 64 bit cpu's by the millions. People are trying out and using 64 bit windows today, in 12 months they will demand it, and certainly expect their newly purchased machine to be able to run it within its lifetime.

Rule of thumb here in North America unless say Dell MS and Intel all said 64 bit today no one will care or notice. That’s a rule of thumb here remember that when you start blabbing about our markets and how they purchase.

When the top guys start playing the 64bit tune then the market here will react until then people are unwittingly buying Pentium D's without the knowledge they have a 64bit half breed chip.

-Jeremy Dach

 

[TechMan]

**ROFL** Are you kidding? There are still plenty of people running Win98 and WinME...

People running Win98 and WinME on their notebooks is completely different from buying new notebooks with Win98 and WinME as installed OS. In the former, they may have bought their units with such installed OS. On a new product, with the latest, albeit high-performance top-of-the-line, processor, do you think it will not be a hard sell if these units are shipped without the 64-bit OS option?

On Cache and Bandwidth:
You do mean cash, and fan width goes to Intel right? - endyen 05

 

[TechMan]

So you’re saying you know what Longhorns minimum requirements are?
---
No I don't. But this page (http://www.pcworld.com/resource/article/0,aid,120913,pg,1,RSS,RSS,00.asp) says

...64-bit computing will be mainstream only with Longhorn...

On Cache and Bandwidth:
You do mean cash, and fan width goes to Intel right? - endyen 05

 

[P4Man]

>What your point you clearly said "Yonah looks nice, but 32
>bit only is going to be a tough sell I think in 12 months."
>So fill me in what’s your point I made mine you haven't made
>yours.

I sure did, but you can't even see the obvious. Dual core Yonah will be high end, and appeal to other people than those looking for a cheap word/excell notebook, so no, you didn't make a point, I did.

>Rule of thumb here in North America unless say Dell MS and
>Intel all said 64 bit today no one will care or notice.

NA is around, if not less than 20% of intels business today, and its shrinking extremely fast each year (mostly to Asia Pacific). Besides, Dell, MS and Intel all sell 64 bit products now, and we are talking about a situation 12 months from here someone buying something that should last him at the very least 3 years. You'd be a fool to think 64 bit software will be a non issue by 2009, and you have to expect all customers to be fools not to realize this.

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[Xeon]

sure did, but you can't even see the obvious. Dual core Yonah will be high end, and appeal to other people than those looking for a cheap word/excell notebook, so no, you didn't make a point, I did.

What makes you think Intel will price them in that manner? They havent done that with the Pentium D's why would they do that with the Pentium M's?

Besides, Dell, MS and Intel all sell 64 bit products now

They arent pushing it thats the problem.

You'd be a fool to think 64 bit software will be a non issue by 2009, and you have to expect all customers to be fools not to realize this.

I never stated anything about future developments.

-Jeremy Dach

 

[P4Man]

>What makes you think Intel will price them in that manner?

Prices are out on the web. I don't have them here, but dual core 2.1 GHz would sell for around $650 per k units if memory serves.

>They arent pushing it thats the problem.

I don't see the problem as long as people are buying.

> never stated anything about future developments.

This whole thread is about future developments smartass.


= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[mozzartusm]

What exactly do you think the requirements will be? I know what they currently are, in fact ask me whatever you would like to know about Longhorn. I have access to it everyday.

<font color=green>NED FLANDERS FOR PRESIDENT</font color=green> Its justa nother gansta PARTY!
Intel P4 Extreme(3.73)@<font color=green>5.6Ghz</font color=green>
Asus P5AD2-E-Premium
Crucial Ballistix DDR2 667@DDR2 855

 

[P4Man]

You do ? Why not just tell us then ?
Anyway, my WAG:

512 MB RAM (1GB recommended)
>1 GHz cpu recommended (though I don't see why it wouldnt work on anything slower too)
DX9 capable videocard
plenty of free diskspace for a multi GB install.

How far off am I ?

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[mozzartusm]

I started thread after thread over a month ago but nobody seemed to care about it so I just gave up.

It defintely works with 512MB but 1G IMO is the bare minimum. I dont know what the final release will have in store but the current one uses 399MB of PF in task manager. Thats without anything significant loaded. Most programs and drivers at this point wont load anyway. It offers some new generic drivers that will knock your socks off. At least compared to what the previous versions offered. The generic graphics driver is unreal in comparison to past drivers. Going back to the PF usage. Even though it uses 399MB something about the OS makes it super effecient AFAICT. Even with only 512MB total it zips right along with no problems.

<font color=green>NED FLANDERS FOR PRESIDENT</font color=green> Its justa nother gansta PARTY!
Intel P4 Extreme(3.73)@<font color=green>5.6Ghz</font color=green>
Asus P5AD2-E-Premium
Crucial Ballistix DDR2 667@DDR2 855

 

[P4Man]

>I dont know what the final release will have in store but the
> current one uses 399MB of PF in task manager.

Ahem.. page file size is not so interesting, windows memory manager can make it as big or small as it wants, just depends how much it decides to swap to disk to free up ram for system cache and apps. Just report memory usage at the bottom of the taskmanager.

>It defintely works with 512MB but 1G IMO is the bare minimum

And yet you claim:

>Even with only 512MB total it zips right along

Hu ?

Also, there have been leaked screenshots posted of the new UI recently. I missed them, and they have been removed everywere. If you have some screenies, I'd appreciate you mail them to me, Im curious what it will look like. I saw early screenies though, but I assume you have access to a recent build ?

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[mozzartusm]

Yep, recent. Recent enough its done away with the word MY on most things such as MY computer, MY documents, My PICs.

<font color=green>NED FLANDERS FOR PRESIDENT</font color=green> Its justa nother gansta PARTY!
Intel P4 Extreme(3.73)@<font color=green>5.6Ghz</font color=green>
Asus P5AD2-E-Premium
Crucial Ballistix DDR2 667@DDR2 855

 

[Xeon]

Prices are out on the web. I don't have them here, but dual core 2.1 GHz would sell for around $650 per k units if memory serves.

Really that’s odd since the last 30+ years Intel has never stated bin prices until just before OEM's can buy the silicon, so with regards that 0.65 is still in testing how can they tag a cost to an unfinished product?

I don't see the problem as long as people are buying.

Well I do you can't get market acceptance from pissing in the wind on the 64bit deal, the market won't move if no one will make it move.

This whole thread is about future developments smartass.

It still doesn’t change the fact that I stated nothing on the future especially 2009.

-Jeremy Dach

 

[TechMan]

I work for a PC device manufacturer - smartcard readers if you're interested, software engineer. I did our past WHQL tests. As soon as I have the Longhorn WHQL test suite, I may be able to have a definitive picture of the OS requirements. For now, just like everybody else, I can only read from so numerous sources. Until I'm sure of my sources and info, I don't want to blabber much on something.

Presently, I still stand by my opinion, Longhorn will push 64-bit OS into the mainstream and future products should be 64-bit ready if they wanted to establish their market niche. x86-64, not IA64. And Yonah is no exemption.


On Cache and Bandwidth:
You do mean cash, and fan width goes to Intel right? - endyen 05

 

[P4Man]

>Really that’s odd since the last 30+ years Intel has never
>stated bin prices until just before OEM's can buy the
>silicon, so with regards that 0.65 is still in testing how
>can they tag a cost to an unfinished product?

<A HREF="http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23774" target="_new">http://www.theinquirer.net/?article=23774</A>
And obviously prices are set LOONG before the products ship, how else do you think oems can plan their product design/launch/capacity ?

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[Xeon]

Place a wager that those prices won't hold merit.

-Jeremy Dach

 

[P4Man]

wager all you want, I don't give a flying f*. all you do is reply to my posts saying 'you are wrong', without ever any facts to back up your claims, and when you do bring facts or links, they never contradict what I said. Over and over and over again and after 20.000 attempts, I believe you still have to catch me on a single factual error (not that others haven't).

You're getting tiresome. Still angry with me that I showed you'r in depth technical posts on the P4 where just reworded intel PDF's are you ?

= The views stated herein are my personal views, and not necessarily the views of my wife. =

 

[Xeon]

I never stated you were wrong, it's simple logic. I looked up fab space on the net and thats what I got for numbers don't be getting all pissy because Intel has several larger fabs.

We also all went over the PDF deal and stated at the end of the post it was chopped from Intel so get over that too I have.

-Jeremy Dach