[SOLVED] Hyper evo 212 enough for i7-10700KF?

[SPFB]

I recently got a PC, it was prebuilt and with very similar specs and price to what I was thinking of. The thing is that it comes with the hyper evo 212, and I'm not sure it is enough, or if my cpu is having another issue. The cpu kept throttling at 75 - 80 degrees while playing Warzone, which caused some huge fps drops. I tried undervolting and it fixed the throttling but the pc crashed after a couple games, I did just -100 mV, I'm not overclocking either. Should I just go for another cooler or can I fix all those issues in any other way? I have the RTX 3070 and temps on that one are way better.

Thanks in advance.

 

[Koekieezz]

it should be enough if it's not past the power limit, make sure you apply a good thermal paste (like gelid gc extreme or acrtic mx4 and mx5) on X pattern, and the fans and the heatfins is clean from dust. A Better cooler should be Noctua NH U12s or U12s redux, both comes with thermal paste and pre applied thermal paste (NT H1, good paste for pc).

If you're only re applying the thermal paste, make sure it's on X pattern (the thermal paste) and apply enough pressure on the mounting.

 

[SPFB]

I actually just recieved the pc back because it had an aerocool cylon 3 and temps were up to 115, just got it back a couple days ago with the hyper evo 212 so I haven't checked the thermal paste, but the pc hasn't been used too much so the fans are good. I might just try getting some thermal paste and applying it instead of the one it had. If it's not helping I'll probably get the NH U12s. Which are the differences between that one and the redux version?

 

[Koekieezz]

I actually just recieved the pc back because it had an aerocool cylon 3 and temps were up to 115, just got it back a couple days ago with the hyper evo 212 so I haven't checked the thermal paste, but the pc hasn't been used too much so the fans are good. I might just try getting some thermal paste and applying it instead of the one it had. If it's not helping I'll probably get the NH U12s. Which are the differences between that one and the redux version?

Redux version is basically the nerfed version, but cooling performance wise, it only differs a little with the redux fan is a bit louder than U12S (well still, it's still normal to my ears, U12S is pretty much silent while the Redux is a little louder but not by much.)

Thermal Paste and mounting pressure is prettty much little factor that could affects the cpu thermal transfer. Also more airflow from case fans will help too.

 

[punkncat]

I think the Hyper 212 is a really decent budget cooler. I have used a couple of them and still keep one as a backup in case of AIO failure. I do not feel it's up to the task on that CPU.

 

[SPFB]

Redux version is basically the nerfed version, but cooling performance wise, it only differs a little with the redux fan is a bit louder than U12S (well still, it's still normal to my ears.)

Thank you, might just go for the cheaper one if the thermal paste doesn't work

 

[SPFB]

I think the Hyper 212 is a really decent budget cooler. I have used a couple of them and still keep one as a backup in case of AIO failure. I do not feel it's up to the task on that CPU.

So you recommend upgrading it to the noctua nh-u12s? That's the one I had in mind at least.

 

[punkncat]

I am not going to try and say Noctua coolers aren't good. They do exceptionally well in all the benchmarks and tests and are typically very easy to install. I am currently using a 92mm on my 11600K and it handles all real world loads just fine.
They are also quite costly.

I looked at and considered the Dark Rock series, but they are so large....

 

[SPFB]

I am not going to try and say Noctua coolers aren't good. They do exceptionally well in all the benchmarks and tests and are typically very easy to install. I am currently using a 92mm on my 11600K and it handles all real world loads just fine.
They are also quite costly.

I looked at and considered the Dark Rock series, but they are so large....

I was actually just looking at the Dark Rock Pro 4 which is around the same price as the noctua nh-u12s here, it is huge but honestly if it just helps more with temps overall I don't mind the size at all

 

[Koekieezz]

It should help alot. My Friend used an Aerocool Cyclon 4 on his i7 3770, the cpu went up as high as 70+ degrees compared to my Gammaxx 400S with Gelid GC Extreme thermal paste on the same processor (maxed 55 on gaming, 65 on stress FPU for 1 hour).

 

[SPFB]

I will also add that the cpu was reaching a power of almost 190 W while playing which is probably no good?

 

[Koekieezz]

I will also add that the cpu was reaching a power of almost 190 W while playing which is probably no good?

It's pretty normal for KF cpus and even if you overclock it, compared to ryzen 3000 or 5000 cpus, intel is trying to crunch more power and clocks for the performance.

 

[SPFB]

It's pretty normal for KF cpus and even if you overclock it, compared to ryzen 3000 or 5000 cpus, intel is trying to crunch more power and clocks for the performance.

Oh okay, thank you, I'm pretty new to this so was worried it might be something with the cpu instead, I might just get the Dark Rock Pro 4 or the Noctua nh-u12s, or do you recommend going for an AIO at the same price range instead?

 

[Koekieezz]

Oh okay, thank you, I'm pretty new to this so was worried it might be something with the cpu instead, I might just get the Dark Rock Pro 4 or the Noctua nh-u12s, or do you recommend going for an AIO at the same price range instead?

i prefer aircooling since sometimes it performed better than an AIO in the same price range.

 

[InvalidError]

Oh okay, thank you, I'm pretty new to this so was worried it might be something with the cpu instead, I might just get the Dark Rock Pro 4 or the Noctua nh-u12s, or do you recommend going for an AIO at the same price range instead?

Short of material and manufacturing defect, a dumb lump of copper and aluminum (conventional HSF) will outlive whatever PC you put it in with little to no maintenance except possibly fan replacements. With an AiO, you can expect a pump or other failure every 2-5 years so you should consider those as consumables.

 

[SPFB]

Thank you all for your answers, I'll definitely get the noctua or the deep rock then, appreciate it a ton!

 

[Phaaze88]

Hold on...

The cpu kept throttling at 75 - 80 degrees while playing Warzone, which caused some huge fps drops.

The 10700KF will not thermal throttle until at least 99.5C. It could be running at 98C and still be running at it's max turbo boost clock, 4.7ghz, or whatever it is.
You, or the system integrator would've had to go into bios and set a lower, custom thermal limit. I've not heard of SIs doing that, except with power limits on laptops.

For the cpu to be throttling that 'low' of a temperature, one of 2 things - perhaps both at the same time - is happening:
1)The motherboard is crap. To be more specific, the VRMs aren't adequate for this cpu, and likely thermal/power throttling. They will close their 'gates', supplying less power to the cpu, and forcing it to drop clocks.
So, what's the motherboard?

2)You are somehow managing to get the cpu to run the entire duration of Tau, which is the amount of time(seconds) the cpu is allowed to run at its turbo boost speeds, after which it clocks down, and stays that way until the task is complete.
Tau is 56s for the 10700K
Thing is, this shouldn't really happen in a game, because the loads are not constant, thus Tau is constantly reset before it expires.
Unlike in programs like Prime 95(small FFT) or CinebenchR23 where you can observe the cpu clock down after 56s and stay down until the task ends.

I'm suspecting the first one.

 

[SPFB]

Hold on...

The 10700KF will not thermal throttle until at least 99.5C. It could be running at 98C and still be running at it's max turbo boost clock, 4.7ghz, or whatever it is.
You, or the system integrator would've had to go into bios and set a lower, custom thermal limit. I've not heard of SIs doing that, except with power limits on laptops.

For the cpu to be throttling that 'low' of a temperature, one of 2 things - perhaps both at the same time - is happening:
1)The motherboard is crap. To be more specific, the VRMs aren't adequate for this cpu, and likely thermal/power throttling. They will close their 'gates', supplying less power to the cpu, and forcing it to drop clocks.
So, what's the motherboard?

2)You are somehow managing to get the cpu to run the entire duration of Tau, which is the amount of time(seconds) the cpu is allowed to run at its turbo boost speeds, after which it clocks down, and stays that way until the task is complete.
Tau is 56s for the 10700K
Thing is, this shouldn't really happen in a game, because the loads are not constant, thus Tau is constantly reset before it expires.
Unlike in programs like Prime 95(small FFT) or CinebenchR23 where you can observe the cpu clock down after 56s and stay down until the task ends.

I'm suspecting the first one.

I'm not entirely sure if it's throttling, but I was monitoring it and it suddenly dropped from 80 degrees to 50 and a huge drop from 144 fps to 20.
Motherboard is a Biostar Racing Z490A-Silver. The funny thing is that with the Aerocool Cylon 3, it used to go to 115 degrees without throttling (the tj max is set to 115 for some reason) so it just stayed there. The CPU was most of the time running at 5.1 ghz

 

[Phaaze88]

The VRM/Mosfets have a higher temperature range than the cpu cores, so that's not unusual.

The CPU was most of the time running at 5.1 ghz

This however, is unusual.

Active Cores	1-2	3	4 - 5	6 - 8
Core i7-10700K	5.1	4.9	4.8	4.7

You should rarely ever see the cpu running at 5.1ghz, except idling on the desktop, or you go into bios and disable 6 cores. The OS can utilize 1-2 cores on its own, plus inputs from you will increase the number of active cores.
This cpu either has an overclock preapplied by the system integrator, or All Core Enhancement(basically a one-button, EZ OC) turned on.
Either way, it appears to be too much for the motherboard.

 

[SPFB]

The VRM/Mosfets have a higher temperature range than the cpu cores, so that's not unusual.


This however, is unusual.

Active Cores	1-2	3	4 - 5	6 - 8
Core i7-10700K	5.1	4.9	4.8	4.7

You should rarely ever see the cpu running at 5.1ghz, except idling on the desktop, or you go into bios and disable 6 cores. The OS can utilize 1-2 cores on its own, plus inputs from you will increase the number of active cores.
This cpu either has an overclock preapplied by the system integrator, or All Core Enhancement(basically a one-button, EZ OC) turned on.
Either way, it appears to be too much for the motherboard.

Okay I just noticed while testing again. The CPU locks at 5.1ghz if I'm undervolting. Used ThrottleStop and applied -100.6 mV offset and that locks the frequencies at max just while playing Warzone. It keeps throttling either way and the BD PROCHOT limit goes red, though that happens when temps reach around 85 and the PROCHOT value is 115.
Frequencies without undervolting go between 4.8 and 5.1, but still do the throttling at lower temps than it should.

 

[Phaaze88]

Okay I just noticed while testing again. The CPU locks at 5.1ghz if I'm undervolting. Used ThrottleStop and applied -100.6 mV offset and that locks the frequencies at max just while playing Warzone. It keeps throttling either way and the BD PROCHOT limit goes red, though that happens when temps reach around 85 and the PROCHOT value is 115.
Frequencies without undervolting go between 4.8 and 5.1, but still do the throttling at lower temps than it should.

@uWebb429 Sorry for trying to hail, but this one is a little over my head.

 

[uWebb429]

it suddenly dropped from 80 degrees to 50

BD PROCHOT throttling allows other sensors on your motherboard to send a throttling signal directly to your CPU. This can happen at any CPU temperature. The two are not directly related. It is a separate sensor that triggers this.

When BD PROCHOT is triggered, the CPU goes into full thermal throttling mode which means it will drop down to 800 MHz. You are definitely going to notice this when gaming. You can disable BD PROCHOT on the main screen of ThrottleStop to try to avoid this throttling but this could damage your computer. Your computer has a problem. Ignoring these warning messages is probably not a good idea.

Your motherboard might have "Racing" in its name but it is not very happy at 190W. Something is under designed and is running too hot. You can try placing a case fan inside your case to get some airflow around the CPU socket and VRMs. The BD PROCHOT throttling signal might be coming from that area. ThrottleStop Limit Reasons will usually show a VRM current or temperature alert if those warning messages are being sent to the CPU. A motherboard manufacturer might not have enabled this reporting feature.

The default TjMax is 100°C. A manufacturer that sets this to 115°C should not be doing this. Intel says that they cannot guarantee long term stability of their CPUs when the CPU core temperatures go over 100°C. That is why Intel sets the default thermal throttling temperature to 100°C. There might be an option in the BIOS that you can use to set this properly. If you cannot find this setting, you could try setting PROCHOT Offset in the ThrottleStop Options window to 15. This should reduce your throttling temperature from 115°C to 100°C.

 

[SPFB]

BD PROCHOT throttling allows other sensors on your motherboard to send a throttling signal directly to your CPU. This can happen at any CPU temperature. The two are not directly related. It is a separate sensor that triggers this.

When BD PROCHOT is triggered, the CPU goes into full thermal throttling mode which means it will drop down to 800 MHz. You are definitely going to notice this when gaming. You can disable BD PROCHOT on the main screen of ThrottleStop to try to avoid this throttling but this could damage your computer. Your computer has a problem. Ignoring these warning messages is probably not a good idea.

Your motherboard might have "Racing" in its name but it is not very happy at 190W. Something is under designed and is running too hot. You can try placing a case fan inside your case to get some airflow around the CPU socket and VRMs. The BD PROCHOT throttling signal might be coming from that area. ThrottleStop Limit Reasons will usually show a VRM current or temperature alert if those warning messages are being sent to the CPU. A motherboard manufacturer might not have enabled this reporting feature.

The default TjMax is 100°C. A manufacturer that sets this to 115°C should not be doing this. Intel says that they cannot guarantee long term stability of their CPUs when the CPU core temperatures go over 100°C. That is why Intel sets the default thermal throttling temperature to 100°C. There might be an option in the BIOS that you can use to set this properly. If you cannot find this setting, you could try setting PROCHOT Offset in the ThrottleStop Options window to 15. This should reduce your throttling temperature from 115°C to 100°C.

There is an option to change it to 100 in the BIOS if I remember correctly. I have a big case (Aerocool tor pro) with 3 fans in the front and one in the back, not the best quality but definitely something. So it is most likely a motherboard issue? And yes, it goes from 4.9 - 5 ghz to 800 mhz when that happens at around 85 degrees, triggering the bd prochot.

 

[uWebb429]

There is an option to change it to 100 in the BIOS

I highly recommend doing that so your CPU is running within spec. Setting this to 115°C can void your CPU warranty. Temps over 100°C are not good for the long term health of your CPU.

it is most likely a motherboard issue?

It is definitely a motherboard issue. Either a sensor on the motherboard has failed, or the motherboard is under designed. Check the heatsinks on the motherboard and make sure they are snug.

The 10700KF has a 125W TDP rating.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...700kf-processor-16m-cache-up-to-5-10-ghz.html

Maybe the Biostar engineers were not planning on someone running their CPU at 190W. They should have been planning for this. My Asus board with the same Z490 chipset can run at over 300W without any BD PROCHOT throttling issues. It only throttles when the CPU gets too hot. That is good throttling.

Thermal throttling only slows the CPU down as much as necessary. 5200 MHz to 5195 MHz is not so bad.

BD PROCHOT throttling that locks the CPU to 800 MHz is overkill and should never be necessary.

 

[SPFB]

I highly recommend doing that so your CPU is running within spec. Setting this to 115°C can void your CPU warranty. Temps over 100°C are not good for the long term health of your CPU.


It is definitely a motherboard issue. Either a sensor on the motherboard has failed, or the motherboard is under designed. Check the heatsinks on the motherboard and make sure they are snug.

The 10700KF has a 125W TDP rating.

https://ark.intel.com/content/www/u...700kf-processor-16m-cache-up-to-5-10-ghz.html

Maybe the Biostar engineers were not planning on someone running their CPU at 190W. They should have been planning for this. My Asus board with the same Z490 chipset can run at over 300W without any BD PROCHOT throttling issues. It only throttles when the CPU gets too hot. That is good throttling.

Thermal throttling only slows the CPU down as much as necessary. 5200 MHz to 5195 MHz is not so bad.

BD PROCHOT throttling that locks the CPU to 800 MHz is overkill and should never be necessary.

I ran a couple matches with bd prochot disabled and fps were stable at 144 all the time, temps going between 80 and 85 degrees and gpu temps around 60 degrees. Though I also tried running a cinebench test and it just crashed, even faster without the undervolting (like 10 seconds) and with -100mV offset it lasted around 25 seconds before it crashed. Any reason why this is happening?