I WANT REAL CESSNA A 152 FOR FS2004

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Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:11:52 -0700, "Jay Beckman" <jnsbeckman@cox.net>
wrote:

>
>Just out of curiosity for comparison's sake, what are the
>ages/models/equipment levels of the three 172s?
>
>FWIW, I'm renting from among a 2002, a 2003 and a 2004 172SP all with the
>NAV II package (GPS, Moving Map, Autopilot, Dual VORs...) at $105/hr wet.
>
>Jay B
>

These are all older planes, the 172's are M & N models, 76-79 if I
recall. All club planes are IFR cert. (except the 152). They fly a lot
which is good since they get 100 hour inspections quite often. Also,
there are a lot of students & pilots looking at them, so squawks get
reported regularly.

Pros:
Cheap, minimums are great for those weekend to 1 week trips.
(Round trip to Vegas, 3 days = ~$300)
On line scheduling
One set of keys fits all planes, 24HR access.
Contracted fuel truck service
Mechanically good condition
Nice location for me (KCRQ)

Cons:
Interiors rough
Older, mostly original electronics (only 1 has a GPS, non-IFR)
A few thoughtless members here & there, make life interesting, BUT, a
thorough preflight is a good thing.

The FBO i am familiar with here has the 172R & SP's for about $100
like you're paying . . . leather seats, etc. but they have a 2 hour
per day minimum for overnight flights.
(Round trip to Vegas, 3 days = ~$600)
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"S Herman" <ask@youmayget.com> wrote in message
news:dmm3c1dhs2vd9vsi9rs4iv3vmc3quff18q@4ax.com...
> On Tue, 28 Jun 2005 13:11:52 -0700, "Jay Beckman" <jnsbeckman@cox.net>
> wrote:
>
>>
>>Just out of curiosity for comparison's sake, what are the
>>ages/models/equipment levels of the three 172s?
>>
>>FWIW, I'm renting from among a 2002, a 2003 and a 2004 172SP all with the
>>NAV II package (GPS, Moving Map, Autopilot, Dual VORs...) at $105/hr wet.
>>
>>Jay B
>>
>
> These are all older planes, the 172's are M & N models, 76-79 if I
> recall. All club planes are IFR cert. (except the 152). They fly a lot
> which is good since they get 100 hour inspections quite often. Also,
> there are a lot of students & pilots looking at them, so squawks get
> reported regularly.
>
> Pros:
> Cheap, minimums are great for those weekend to 1 week trips.
> (Round trip to Vegas, 3 days = ~$300)
> On line scheduling
> One set of keys fits all planes, 24HR access.
> Contracted fuel truck service
> Mechanically good condition
> Nice location for me (KCRQ)
>
> Cons:
> Interiors rough
> Older, mostly original electronics (only 1 has a GPS, non-IFR)
> A few thoughtless members here & there, make life interesting, BUT, a
> thorough preflight is a good thing.
>
> The FBO i am familiar with here has the 172R & SP's for about $100
> like you're paying . . . leather seats, etc. but they have a 2 hour
> per day minimum for overnight flights.
> (Round trip to Vegas, 3 days = ~$600)
>
>

Thanks very much for your response.

Always interesting to compare $$$/Value ratios in other parts of the
country. I"d have to say that the Phoenix area is somewhat below average as
far as rental rates go.

I've seen 172SPs in some parts going for up to $125/hr !! Eeeek...

Jay B
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Dallas <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:

> "Jay Beckman"
>> Always interesting to compare $$$/Value ratios in other parts of the
>> country.
>
> Here's another one with lots of detail, click on View Aircraft and Rates:
>
> http://classicaviationonline.com/services_rental.html

There are four C172SPs available for rent at the school where I trained, a
1999, a 2000, a 2002, and a 2003 model. The two latest models are NAV II
equipped (IFR GPS, MFDs, autopilot, round gauges) and the other two have
older IFR GPS's w/out MFDs.

All rent for US $100 per hour and instruction is $40 per hour.

--
Peter
























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Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Beech45Whiskey" <pjricc@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:jke3ub4rsenn.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> Dallas <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote:
>
>> "Jay Beckman"
>>> Always interesting to compare $$$/Value ratios in other parts of the
>>> country.
>>
>> Here's another one with lots of detail, click on View Aircraft and Rates:
>>
>> http://classicaviationonline.com/services_rental.html
>
> There are four C172SPs available for rent at the school where I trained, a
> 1999, a 2000, a 2002, and a 2003 model. The two latest models are NAV II
> equipped (IFR GPS, MFDs, autopilot, round gauges) and the other two have
> older IFR GPS's w/out MFDs.
>
> All rent for US $100 per hour and instruction is $40 per hour.
>

Amazing. Driver's training (mandatory) costs more than that over here in
Switzerland.

Stephen
(I'm jealous)
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Stephen F." <ferguson@NOJUNKbluewin.ch> wrote:

> Amazing. Driver's training (mandatory) costs more than that over here in
> Switzerland.

Those prices I quoted were per hour. Are you saying that driver's training
cost more than US $6,000 or 7,709 Swiss Franc?

--
Peter
























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Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Beech45Whiskey" <pjricc@gmail.com> wrote in message
news:2jdmr1emj7iv.dlg@ID-259643.user.individual.net...
> "Stephen F." <ferguson@NOJUNKbluewin.ch> wrote:
>
>> Amazing. Driver's training (mandatory) costs more than that over here in
>> Switzerland.
>
> Those prices I quoted were per hour. Are you saying that driver's
> training
> cost more than US $6,000 or 7,709 Swiss Franc?
>
> --
> Peter
>

I understood the per hour part. Getting a driving license in Switzerland or
Germany drains your pockets to the tune of about 3000 bucks.

Stephen
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Stephen F." <ferguson@NOJUNKbluewin.ch> wrote:

> I understood the per hour part. Getting a driving license in Switzerland or
> Germany drains your pockets to the tune of about 3000 bucks.

OK, so not quite as much as a pilot's certificate in the US, but still...

You must have a lot of excellent drivers in your country!

--
Peter
























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Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Beech45Whiskey wrote:

> "Stephen F." <ferguson@NOJUNKbluewin.ch> wrote:
>
>
>>I understood the per hour part. Getting a driving license in Switzerland or
>>Germany drains your pockets to the tune of about 3000 bucks.
>
>
> OK, so not quite as much as a pilot's certificate in the US, but still...
>
> You must have a lot of excellent drivers in your country!
>

Actually they do. Driving here in the US is totally defensive driving
(for me at any rate) but spending 10 years in Germany I have to say they
do drive aggressive, but follow every rule. If a lane is blocked ahead
each care in the clear lane will allow one car to merge in front of
them. If you don't see a turn signal, they aren't turning. If they
aren't passing, they are in the right lane. Gabriella spent thousands
for mandatory driving school and when I took her to get her US drivers
license she was amazed that all she had to do was drive around the block.

--

boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

boB <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote:

> Actually they do. Driving here in the US is totally defensive driving
> (for me at any rate) but spending 10 years in Germany I have to say they
> do drive aggressive, but follow every rule.

It is certainly an impressive goal, but think of the consequences in
mandating a driving course that costs US 3,000 before one gets a driver's
license.

Many, many people of minimum to modest economic means would not have
licenses, which would certainly have an impact on the economy.

--
Peter
























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Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Beech45Whiskey wrote:
> boB <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote:
>
>
>>Actually they do. Driving here in the US is totally defensive driving
>>(for me at any rate) but spending 10 years in Germany I have to say they
>>do drive aggressive, but follow every rule.
>
>
> It is certainly an impressive goal, but think of the consequences in
> mandating a driving course that costs US 3,000 before one gets a driver's
> license.
>
> Many, many people of minimum to modest economic means would not have
> licenses, which would certainly have an impact on the economy.
>

Heck no!! I'm not insinuating the US should have a mandatory drivers
training course. I would be satisfied if the police ticketed drivers for
violating the law. Such as driving in the left lane, changing lanes or
turning without signaling the intension to mention a few.

--

boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)

To reply privately, get rid of PuPPYmillS
akita_77PuPPYmillS@yahoo.com
(akita_77-note the underscore)
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Dallas" <Cybnorm@spam_me_not.Hotmail.Com> wrote in message
news:xbNwe.11144$jX6.593@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> $3,000.00 for driving school seems absurd.
>
> Sounds like a govenment scam to enhance revenue.
>
>

Why is 6'000 - 7'000 to get a PPL acceptable, but not a similar amount to
pilot a 1500kg vehicle at speeds up to 250kph, in close proximity with other
vehicles, in varying weather conditions? I would say our Canadian and
American system is woefully inadequate.

To me, it sounds like they are simply treating driving as a privilege, not a
right, and they are also recognizing that European driving (in some regions)
places some serious demands on your driving competence which do not exist in
the typical N.A. suburban environment. Having spent my first ten driving
years in North America (where I was the exception to the rule and actually
attended an advanced driving school) and then the next ten years in
Switzerland and Germany, I definitely see the benefits of rigid (and
expensive) driver training requirements. The UK is somewhat less expensive,
but still requires a substantial amount of documented wheel time before
licensing. The end result is that the majority of drivers, even well into
their senior years, know how to drive quickly, courteously, and safely on
very demanding roads, rather than vaguely guiding their vehicles down a wide
expanse of concrete in a mouth-breathing stupor.

On the flip side, my car insurance was cheaper in Switzerland than Canada,
used cars are in better shape and cheaper, so it all evens out in the end.

Stephen
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

As a matter of interest, when I lived near a big US airbase in the middle
of England, the most common road accident in the area involved young
American servicemen. The most common cause of death among the young soldiers
was road accidents.
They could not cope with our narrow country roads and driving on the left.


Quilljar


Try 'Living With Technology' magazine
http://www.livtech.co.uk
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"Stephen F."
> Why is 6'000 - 7'000 to get a PPL acceptable, but not a similar amount to
> pilot a 1500kg vehicle


Adding that 3rd dimension tends to complicate things a bit. 🙂


Dallas
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Stephen F. wrote:
I would say our Canadian and
> American system is woefully inadequate.
>
The end result is that the majority of drivers, even well into
> their senior years, know how to drive quickly, courteously, and safely on
> very demanding roads, rather than vaguely guiding their vehicles down a wide
> expanse of concrete in a mouth-breathing stupor.
>
> On the flip side, my car insurance was cheaper in Switzerland than Canada,
> used cars are in better shape and cheaper, so it all evens out in the end.
>
> Stephen
>
>
========================================================================
> very demanding roads, rather than vaguely guiding their vehicles down
>a wide
> expanse of concrete in a mouth-breathing stupor.
========================================================================

Who the fuc# are you directing that idiotic statement to you friggin' idiot?

There were many times in Europe where I encountered less than perfect
motorists and I believe YOU have been a road hazard on occasion!!

--

boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

"boB" <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote in message
news:wSYwe.91245$6g3.14663@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>
> Who the fuc# are you directing that idiotic statement to you friggin'
> idiot?
>
> There were many times in Europe where I encountered less than perfect
> motorists and I believe YOU have been a road hazard on occasion!!
>

Sorry if I touched a hot wire. Obviously, it was directed to the drivers
who are in a mouth-breathing stupor. I don't know you, but I would imagine
with your military training you are *not* one of them, hence I didn't say
"all those bad drivers like boB". In fact, I could imagine you might even
be one of the ex-military guys who has something pretty cool stashed away in
the garage. Something like a Big Healy, an old Porsche 356 with a sneaky
Carrera engine, or maybe something with a Hemi, built back when "Hemi" meant
something. You probably also know how to use it, and you would be a guy I
could swap stories with over a beer. I also imagine most professionally
trained pilots would also fall into the group of competent drivers, as they
are blessed with a finely-tuned sense of situational awareness which only
comes from *training*.

However, I stand by my comment that Europeans on average, because of their
driving training, are much more active and coherent *participants* in
traffic, rather than passively going with the flow. It's simply my
observation after ten years of driving over here, compared to ten years of
driving in Canada and the US. It's also the observation of many people paid
good money to study and write about driving practices and skills in
different countries. It is also the anecdotal observation of many people on
the driving and car forums where I participate (forum members from NA).

Of course there are bad drivers in Europe and good drivers in NA. However,
given the roads they face, the law of averages would simply dicate that they
would all be dead if they weren't, for the most part, extremely competent
drivers.

As for me, I'm sure I've been guilty of being inconsiderate at times, but
I'll wager my record of 550'000+ accident free kms has at least something to
do with taking a comprehensive driving training in Canada (optional and
expensive), followed up by regular trips to performance driving schools
since then. It is clear to me that people who take proper driver
"training", as opposed to driver "education" (not just a matter of
semantics) drive differently. They see the road differently, they take in
the whole situation differently, they think ahead.

Sorry that you took offence to a tongue-in-cheek comment not aimed at anyone
in particular.

Stephen
 
Archived from groups: alt.games.microsoft.flight-sim (More info?)

Stephen F. wrote:
> "boB" <akitaREMOVECAPS77@excite.Icom> wrote in message
> news:wSYwe.91245$6g3.14663@tornado.texas.rr.com...
>
>>Who the fuc# are you directing that idiotic statement to you friggin'
>>idiot?
>>
>>There were many times in Europe where I encountered less than perfect
>>motorists and I believe YOU have been a road hazard on occasion!!
>>
>
>
> Sorry if I touched a hot wire. Obviously, it was directed to the drivers
> who are in a mouth-breathing stupor. I don't know you, but I would imagine
> with your military training you are *not* one of them, hence I didn't say
> "all those bad drivers like boB". In fact, I could imagine you might even
> be one of the ex-military guys who has something pretty cool stashed away in
> the garage. Something like a Big Healy, an old Porsche 356 with a sneaky
> Carrera engine, or maybe something with a Hemi, built back when "Hemi" meant
> something. You probably also know how to use it, and you would be a guy I
> could swap stories with over a beer. I also imagine most professionally
> trained pilots would also fall into the group of competent drivers, as they
> are blessed with a finely-tuned sense of situational awareness which only
> comes from *training*.
>

I don't know why that statement set me off. I have to apologize. Sorry.
I should taken more time before I replied.



--

boB,
SAG 70

U.S. Army Aviation (retired)
Central Texas - 5NM West of Gray Army Airfield (KGRK)

To reply privately, get rid of PuPPYmillS
akita_77PuPPYmillS@yahoo.com
(akita_77-note the underscore)
 
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